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e16bball
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 14976
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 Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeezy Fanatic wrote: | Another one of my major pet peeves is the idea that if you have a bad OL it's better to draft a mobile QB that will be able to handle that better.
1) A mobile QB may not necessarily be that much healthier or effective behind a bad o-line. IF anything it could bring about bad habits in that he always feels he has to scramble.
2) You always choose the better QB. If we don't think our O-Lineman can protect a young QB right now, we still take the best QB and sit him and let him learn the system as we build an offense for him to take over. We shouldn't be looking at our team now and picking a QB to plug in there, we should be looking for what we want our team to be in 5 years, and what type of QB we envision that team having. |
Completely, completely agree with these two points.
The QBs who are best at staying off the turf are not the ones who are particularly mobile or hard to tackle (Big Ben, Vick, Newton), but instead are the ones who understand their offense and the opposing defense deeply enough to get the ball out quickly when the pressure is coming (Manning, Brady, Brees). The idea that our OL is bad so we want to get a guy who can run away from pressure is, to be frank, just flat-out wrong. Mobility helps, of course, but it pales next to having a QB who can diagnose pressure and attack it.
More to the point, as Jeezy said, drafting a QB to make up for your current weaknesses is also the wrong approach. We're hoping this guy is going to be our franchise QB for the next 10-15 years, so concerning ourselves too much with trying to make him fit with the makeup of the 2012 roster makes little sense. By the time this QB is hopefully winding up his career, guys like Jammal Brown and Chris Chester will be running used car lots and restaurants and going to watch their college-age children play football, not blocking for Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin. Take the best guy, take the guy you think is the best bet to be the leader of the franchise for the next decade.
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O.J. Atogwe Tracker: 25 Tackles | 1 INT | 2 PDs | 2 TFLs | 1 sack
Saverio Rocca Tracker: 44.2 AVG | 41.2 NET | 14/25 IN20 |
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DarrellGreen28
Joined: 16 Jan 2011
Posts: 410
Location: Rockville, MD
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| turtle28 wrote: | | DarrellGreen28 wrote: | | The thing is that Stanford is a much more talented team than Baylor all around. Especially when you consider how awful Baylor's D is. Griff has been carrying them all year |
Baylor's talent is better except for QB, OL and TE. |
Baylor has one of the worst defenses in the country. Every game they lost is when the other team had over 40 points. Heck, there have been few instances where they held the other team under 30.
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 53124
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| DarrellGreen28 wrote: | | turtle28 wrote: | | DarrellGreen28 wrote: | | The thing is that Stanford is a much more talented team than Baylor all around. Especially when you consider how awful Baylor's D is. Griff has been carrying them all year |
Baylor's talent is better except for QB, OL and TE. |
Baylor has one of the worst defenses in the country. Every game they lost is when the other team had over 40 points. Heck, there have been few instances where they held the other team under 30. |
Ou's D has fallen apart as of late as well and they Miss Broyles. They would have won if healthy.
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 mike23md
Days until:Minicamp 20; Training camp 64; Eagles @ Redskins 110 RIP SSF |
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DarrellGreen28
Joined: 16 Jan 2011
Posts: 410
Location: Rockville, MD
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| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| turtle28 wrote: | | DarrellGreen28 wrote: | | turtle28 wrote: | | DarrellGreen28 wrote: | | The thing is that Stanford is a much more talented team than Baylor all around. Especially when you consider how awful Baylor's D is. Griff has been carrying them all year |
Baylor's talent is better except for QB, OL and TE. |
Baylor has one of the worst defenses in the country. Every game they lost is when the other team had over 40 points. Heck, there have been few instances where they held the other team under 30. |
Ou's D has fallen apart as of late as well and they Miss Broyles. They would have won if healthy. |
thats my point tho. Stanford's D is really good. Even OU has had dominant performances (against Texas)
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Dashing
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2812
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DCRED
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 2356
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeezy Fanatic wrote: | Another one of my major pet peeves is the idea that if you have a bad OL it's better to draft a mobile QB that will be able to handle that better.
1) A mobile QB may not necessarily be that much healthier or effective behind a bad o-line. IF anything it could bring about bad habits in that he always feels he has to scramble.
2) You always choose the better QB. If we don't think our O-Lineman can protect a young QB right now, we still take the best QB and sit him and let him learn the system as we build an offense for him to take over. We shouldn't be looking at our team now and picking a QB to plug in there, we should be looking for what we want our team to be in 5 years, and what type of QB we envision that team having.
I think Barkley projects better into being able to carry a team to the Super Bowl... |
I agree with your post. I wasn't talking about the QB scrambling and running though. I was looking at a Aaron Rodgers type QB (not Vick) in my line of thinking and how that type of scrambler really helps, but he's got the arm, vision, accuracy too that are the skills that are relied on the most.
You and E made great points, it's just nice when you find a guy like AR who has it all plus that extra dimension. Was just kinda curious if RG3 could ever turn into THAT kind of QB. Maybe I've been misled on his other skills, as posters like Turtle and Dashing are not sold at all on him...
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Woz
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 17421
Location: in a land where the furniture folds to a much smaller size
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| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| Woz wrote: | He's cooled off a bit from earlier this year, but here's how Robert Griffin compares to himself prior to this season:
2008-2010:
- completion percentage: 64.4% (best year: 2010 (67.0%))
- yards per attempt: 7.69 (best year: 2008 (7.83))
- passer rating: 143.3 (best year: 2010 (144.2))
- run:pass ratio: 0.442 (best year (lowest): 2010 (0.328))
2011:
- completion percentage: 74.2% [+9.8% points above previous 3 year average, +7.2% points above previous best year]
- yards per attempt: 10.24 [2.55 YPA above 3 year average, 2.41 YPA above previous best year]
- passer rating: 188.6 [45.3 points above 3 year average, 44.4 points above previous best year]
- run:pass ratio: 0.384 [he improved about 5.8% based on his 3 year average, but still 5.6% above his best year]
I have severe concerns about Griffin. He's a run-and-shoot quarterback with a statistically aberrant year this year. He's going to come out because the fire is never going to be hotter for him, but the numbers are telling me to stay away. I did catch part of the Baylor-Oklahoma game. That tip drill TD was ridiculous, and I think a NFL caliber defense would crush those runs of his.
He'll be good, but I don't see elite. |
Updating to include the past two games:
Completion %: 72.6% (dropped 1.8%, but still way high in relation to his career)
Yards per attempt: 10.60 (went up a bit ... still radically off his career)
Passer Rating: 191.1 (the YPA + TDs helped bump this higher into the stratosphere)
Run:pass ratio: 0.429
That last one is the biggest concern. When the rubber met the road, he started running a lot more. |
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mrdriii
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 672
Location: NY
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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RGIII is elite, period. Turtle is the one missing something. He has some sort of bias against him, I have no clue why. I was just watching their game with Texas and he's dominant the ball exPlodes from his hand. He's fast and his run ratio is high due to designed runs. His upside is as high or higher than any other QB don't let the bias fool ya.
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Slateman
Joined: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 4612
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| He would look damn sexy in Burgandy and Gold |
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 53124
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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He should be the 3rd qb taken in this draft and IMO a very good chance that he or Landry Jones ends up in Burgundy and Gold. We may end up4-12 and still be able to trade up to get luck or get Barkley but its more likely we'll have to "settle" for Griffin or Jones, which I'm also fine with.
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mike23md
Days until:Minicamp 20; Training camp 64; Eagles @ Redskins 110 RIP SSF |
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 53124
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| DCRED wrote: | | Jeezy Fanatic wrote: | Another one of my major pet peeves is the idea that if you have a bad OL it's better to draft a mobile QB that will be able to handle that better.
1) A mobile QB may not necessarily be that much healthier or effective behind a bad o-line. IF anything it could bring about bad habits in that he always feels he has to scramble.
2) You always choose the better QB. If we don't think our O-Lineman can protect a young QB right now, we still take the best QB and sit him and let him learn the system as we build an offense for him to take over. We shouldn't be looking at our team now and picking a QB to plug in there, we should be looking for what we want our team to be in 5 years, and what type of QB we envision that team having.
I think Barkley projects better into being able to carry a team to the Super Bowl... |
I agree with your post. I wasn't talking about the QB scrambling and running though. I was looking at a Aaron Rodgers type QB (not Vick) in my line of thinking and how that type of scrambler really helps, but he's got the arm, vision, accuracy too that are the skills that are relied on the most.
You and E made great points, it's just nice when you find a guy like AR who has it all plus that extra dimension. Was just kinda curious if RG3 could ever turn into THAT kind of QB. Maybe I've been misled on his other skills, as posters like Turtle and Dashing are not sold at all on him... |
I'm sold on him, over the last month. He should be taken in the top 15 of the draft. I just don't agree with the few posters who believe hes a better prospect than Luck or even Barkley.
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mike23md
Days until:Minicamp 20; Training camp 64; Eagles @ Redskins 110 RIP SSF |
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 53124
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| mrdriii wrote: | | RGIII is elite, period. Turtle is the one missing something. He has some sort of bias against him, I have no clue why. I was just watching their game with Texas and he's dominant the ball exPlodes from his hand. He's fast and his run ratio is high due to designed runs. His upside is as high or higher than any other QB don't let the bias fool ya. |
I. Don't have Bias against him. I like him, just not more than Luck or Barkley. Don't know how that means I don't like him because I'm trying to nail down those points.  He also plays in the run and shoot, same offense Keenum plays in, Brennan played in, Timmy Chang, Andre Ware and David Klingler. His wrs run 5 yards wide open more often than not just like Keenums. I don't ever see him taking snaps from under center. So I'm skeptical of him, but he's still a great prospect. He's just not on the level as the top 2, he's not as poished in pro style offenses and I don't think he starts his rookie year unless the teams starter gets hurt or his team is just horrible and the starter is benched. That's fine, I'm willing to have and see a young qb develop, I was more patient with Shuler, Ferrotte, Green, Ramsey and Campbell than anyone else. Still though, Luck and Barkley can and probably will be day 1 starters in the Nfl. I don't think Griffin will be so IMO he's behind them.
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mike23md
Days until:Minicamp 20; Training camp 64; Eagles @ Redskins 110 RIP SSF |
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Slateman
Joined: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 4612
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| turtle28 wrote: | | He should be the 3rd qb taken in this draft and IMO a very good chance that he or Landry Jones ends up in Burgundy and Gold. We may end up4-12 and still be able to trade up to get luck or get Barkley but its more likely we'll have to "settle" for Griffin or Jones, which I'm also fine with. |
Please don't say things like that. Don't even mention Landry Jones in the same sentence as Robert Griffin III. Not even on the same planet in terms of ability. Jones is going to bust so hard. He's Rex Grossman 2.0 |
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turtle28
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 53124
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Slateman wrote: | | turtle28 wrote: | | He should be the 3rd qb taken in this draft and IMO a very good chance that he or Landry Jones ends up in Burgundy and Gold. We may end up4-12 and still be able to trade up to get luck or get Barkley but its more likely we'll have to "settle" for Griffin or Jones, which I'm also fine with. |
Please don't say things like that. Don't even mention Landry Jones in the same sentence as Robert Griffin III. Not even on the same planet in terms of ability. Jones is going to bust so hard. He's Rex Grossman 2.0 |
well I just did, so deal with it. 
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mike23md
Days until:Minicamp 20; Training camp 64; Eagles @ Redskins 110 RIP SSF |
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DarrellGreen28
Joined: 16 Jan 2011
Posts: 410
Location: Rockville, MD
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| Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Props to Ace, lavar, and a few others for being right about RGIII 
We got our guy and in the coming years, its time to compete. After that, I'll bump the post I made where I said he would be better than Luck
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