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Robert Griffin III is the QB I want to draft.
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bowilson11


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
PARROTHEAD wrote:
People can knock OUs D.
But they had a NC game bid on the line. Its their playoff game, Under the lights, national audience.
Think of the long great history of OU. And all RGIII did was put more yards on them than anyone in their history. 616 total. 479passing.

He played at a pro level. And when the pressure of a tight game was on, he really came alive.
The OU D blows! Their middle linebacker committed suicide in the off season, his back up has been in and out of the line up with injury all year, their secondary is the worse secondary i've ever seen at OU and IMO their DL outside of Lewis blows as well and he just sprained his MCL vs Baylor last game. Compared to where OU's D usually is on teams that compete for national championships, this group blows. It's amazing Landry Jones and company without a running game have kept this team in contention for a national championship. I wonder how different the game would have been if Ryan Broyles the NCAA leader for receptions in a career and their punt returner played also. Shocked
Last time I checked neither one of those players were in OU's secondary. So, they couldn't have helped defend not one pass Turtle. True, they may have lost if those players were available but RG III would have still put up those numbers. Plus, he had two long passes called back on penalties. Can you say 600 yds passing? PLEASE, I know he's not the safe pick that Luck and Barkley are, but Barkley has limited mobility just like Jones. Luck is a Athlete, I give you that, but we won't be drafting #1 so let move on pass that guy and focus on the ones that will be available for us to draft.
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e16bball


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bowilson11 wrote:
e16bball wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
I think it's pretty clear where I stand on this. My opinion of the QBs:
    Elite franchise guys: Luck + RGIII
    Good franchise QBs: Barkley, Foles
    Average-to-good long-time starter: Landry Jones
    Wildcard: Tannehill (I think he could end up in any of the three categories or bust)

I'm also an admitted fan of Kirk Cousins coming to DC, and if they could manage it, would allow for the QB situation to be settled for a long-time. In 2012, you would start with REx as the QB, RGIII would come in eventually (much like Jay Cutler) and Kirk Cousins would be the third stringer. Fast forward a year and I think you could have two second year players at the position.

I guess the most likely scenario is:
    Step One - Draft elite QB prospect
    Step Two - Rex starts the season, replaced midway through or late in the season.
    Step Three - John Beck is the third stringer (helping to teach elite young QB prospect)
    Step Four - One of Rex or Beck is kept. I think it's clear that Rex is the far superior QB but I'm assuming the most important factor will be educating the young QB(s) so that may be Beck's saving grace.
I'm usually not a fan of taking two qbs in a draft, but I'm not really opposed to your proposal here Footy. To me, it all depends on where Cousins is projected to be drafted. Right now, it's kind of up in the air. I could see him going anywhere from late 2nd to the top of the 4th. This team just needs so many things via the draft. We need especially young OL, an ILB, a NT and another young CB that I'm not sure we take a prospect such as Cousins.


I usually like footy's ideas, but this is one I can't ride with. Cousins is probably more NFL-ready than Griffin right now. He doesn't have nearly the upside, but he plays in a much more reasonable system where he's under center much more often. All the footwork, all the transitioning to taking snaps under center, that's the sort of thing that he'll be able to pull off much more quickly than RGIII.

The amount of pressure that would create on RGIII could never be in his best interest. Just think about it, you're drafted to a team like the Redskins to be the one to bring them back to glory --- and then they draft another guy two rounds later? Do they really believe in you when they're hedging their bets like that? And then that guy comes into practice and he's picking things up more quickly than you, getting praised for his footwork, etc. So you start to press, and you keep looking over your shoulder at the other guy to see what he's doing. It's just a bad situation all around.

When you take a QB, you have to commit to him. So much of the game at that position is about confidence --- do you believe in the QB, do his teammates believe in him, does he believe in himself? That's how you develop a leader. And if you undermine a guy within two rounds of his very first draft, you've created a rift from day one that has a real chance of causing problems for you down the road. Especially when the top guy is more of a project than the lower rated guy.
Why is there still so much stock put on being under center when Brady, Peyton, Rodgers spend the better part of the game in the shotgun? The don't hear the cry that they need to spend more time under center. The game of football has changed. QBs have less time to react today then ever before so most teams use the shotgun to give their QBs time to read the defenses and react. Defensive players are much faster and stronger and get to the QBs quicker. I agree that a QB has to be able to play from under center, but I don't think it's a make or break deal.


How often are our QBs under center? In this system, based on the zone stretch runs the offense is based on, the QB has to play under center.
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mrdriii


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm tired of all the arguments against RGIII. Mostly these come from the same guys who argued against Cam, who just happens to be having a record setting rookie season. RGIII is a smart, winner with a great arm and incredible athleticism; I'm sure he'll be able to learn the footwork for being under center if he doesn't already know it. On a team other than Baylor he would have already been awarded the Heisman. He is the reason they're ranked. Let's not not give this man his proper respect. If someone like Barkley is considered a fit for our team how can RGIII not be? Better athlete better arm smarter same size. Imagine what he would do if surrounded by NFL talent. I started the Cam bandwagon last year and was right, so this year I'm starting the RGIII bandwagon and I bet I'm right again.

Turtle we usually agree but I don't understand this virtual hatred of RGIII how can you possibly think Barkley is better? I too like RGIII better than Luck. We'll see who ends up better
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mrdriii


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

E we actually have to RUN the ball for the zone blocking scheme to work at all!
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bowilson11 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
PARROTHEAD wrote:
People can knock OUs D.
But they had a NC game bid on the line. Its their playoff game, Under the lights, national audience.
Think of the long great history of OU. And all RGIII did was put more yards on them than anyone in their history. 616 total. 479passing.

He played at a pro level. And when the pressure of a tight game was on, he really came alive.
The OU D blows! Their middle linebacker committed suicide in the off season, his back up has been in and out of the line up with injury all year, their secondary is the worse secondary i've ever seen at OU and IMO their DL outside of Lewis blows as well and he just sprained his MCL vs Baylor last game. Compared to where OU's D usually is on teams that compete for national championships, this group blows. It's amazing Landry Jones and company without a running game have kept this team in contention for a national championship. I wonder how different the game would have been if Ryan Broyles the NCAA leader for receptions in a career and their punt returner played also. Shocked
Last time I checked neither one of those players were in OU's secondary. So, they couldn't have helped defend not one pass Turtle. True, they may have lost if those players were available but RG III would have still put up those numbers. Plus, he had two long passes called back on penalties. Can you say 600 yds passing? PLEASE, I know he's not the safe pick that Luck and Barkley are, but Barkley has limited mobility just like Jones. Luck is a Athlete, I give you that, but we won't be drafting #1 so let move on pass that guy and focus on the ones that will be available for us to draft.
He has great #s, but Griffin does not translate into our offensive scheme as well as Luck and Barkley do. Barkley and Jone's aren't that limited mobily, they can move around the pocket (I mean they aren't track athletes) but you don't need to be a track athlete to play QB in the NFL. Luck and Barkley are ahead of Griffin in every key area that you need to have in an NFL QB. I'd be pretty upset if we passed on either Luck or Barkley for a project like Griffin. Pretty upset. I know we aren't going to be drafting #1, but I believe we can trade up into that spot, if need be and take Luck. I don't see us picking any worse than #3 in the NFL draft and the team that is picking #2 is going to be taking a WR or OT.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrdriii wrote:
I'm tired of all the arguments against RGIII. Mostly these come from the same guys who argued against Cam, who just happens to be having a record setting rookie season. RGIII is a smart, winner with a great arm and incredible athleticism; I'm sure he'll be able to learn the footwork for being under center if he doesn't already know it. On a team other than Baylor he would have already been awarded the Heisman. He is the reason they're ranked. Let's not not give this man his proper respect. If someone like Barkley is considered a fit for our team how can RGIII not be? Better athlete better arm smarter same size. Imagine what he would do if surrounded by NFL talent. I started the Cam bandwagon last year and was right, so this year I'm starting the RGIII bandwagon and I bet I'm right again.

Turtle we usually agree but I don't understand this virtual hatred of RGIII how can you possibly think Barkley is better? I too like RGIII better than Luck. We'll see who ends up better
I don't hate RGIII, I just don't think he's as good of a prospect as Luck or Barkley. He's my # 3 qb off the board right now, he won't go lower than #15 in my eyes, so I really don't see how that is hating on him?

Facts are facts man, and the facts are that RGIII has a lot of work to do till he's as ready to play in the NFL. Guys like Luck and Barkley are polished NFL prospects, who have been coached in NFL schemes, and played for NFL coaches for most (in Lucks case) or all of their Careers in Barkley's case. Last year's draft was different, in last year's draft we didn't have guys like Luck and Barkley who are ready to step into an NFL offense day one and lead it like a veteran.
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Last edited by turtle28 on Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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S. Taylor


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's going to be funny when RGIII has a killer rookie season...
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

S. Taylor wrote:
It's going to be funny when RGIII has a killer rookie season...
Define Killer?? Like Cam Newtonesque?? Do you mean better than Luck or Barkley?

When Griffin plays as a good NFL QB I will expect it, because I expect him to be good, but I don't expect him to be great right away like I do with Luck and Barkely. I could see us ending up #2 or 3 and taking Barkley if we can't trade up for Luck. I see Miami ending up 4 or 5 and taking Robert Griffin. I'm not sure he's going to rip it up in Miami with a new coaching staff and all that, but then again Cam did.

Of course, Cam is 4 inches taller and 40 lbs heavier than Robert Griffin so I don't think he's going to be exactly like Cam (a TE running with the football). I think eventually Griffin is a success but I would totally be 100% shocked if he has a "killer" rookie season. If that happens, I will be the 1st to totally admit I was 100% wrong about the guy.
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CriminalMind


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess is someone will offer picks to Minny to move up.

Not sure if Minny will bite considering who'd be on the board.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
My guess is someone will offer picks to Minny to move up.

Not sure if Minny will bite considering who'd be on the board.
Do you think Minny will end up with a worse record than the redskins? I don't. I think they beat us when we play.
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PARROTHEAD


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
bowilson11 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
PARROTHEAD wrote:
People can knock OUs D.
But they had a NC game bid on the line. Its their playoff game, Under the lights, national audience.
Think of the long great history of OU. And all RGIII did was put more yards on them than anyone in their history. 616 total. 479passing.

He played at a pro level. And when the pressure of a tight game was on, he really came alive.
The OU D blows! Their middle linebacker committed suicide in the off season, his back up has been in and out of the line up with injury all year, their secondary is the worse secondary i've ever seen at OU and IMO their DL outside of Lewis blows as well and he just sprained his MCL vs Baylor last game. Compared to where OU's D usually is on teams that compete for national championships, this group blows. It's amazing Landry Jones and company without a running game have kept this team in contention for a national championship. I wonder how different the game would have been if Ryan Broyles the NCAA leader for receptions in a career and their punt returner played also. Shocked
Last time I checked neither one of those players were in OU's secondary. So, they couldn't have helped defend not one pass Turtle. True, they may have lost if those players were available but RG III would have still put up those numbers. Plus, he had two long passes called back on penalties. Can you say 600 yds passing? PLEASE, I know he's not the safe pick that Luck and Barkley are, but Barkley has limited mobility just like Jones. Luck is a Athlete, I give you that, but we won't be drafting #1 so let move on pass that guy and focus on the ones that will be available for us to draft.
He has great #s, but Griffin does not translate into our offensive scheme as well as Luck and Barkley do. Barkley and Jone's aren't that limited mobily, they can move around the pocket (I mean they aren't track athletes) but you don't need to be a track athlete to play QB in the NFL. Luck and Barkley are ahead of Griffin in every key area that you need to have in an NFL QB. I'd be pretty upset if we passed on either Luck or Barkley for a project like Griffin. Pretty upset. I know we aren't going to be drafting #1, but I believe we can trade up into that spot, if need be and take Luck. I don't see us picking any worse than #3 in the NFL draft and the team that is picking #2 is going to be taking a WR or OT.


Tried out 3qbs and none have been able to fit this offensive scheme yet.
I think RGIII fits perfect to it. And if not, you fit the system to better fit him. Like Carolina using Gus Malzans plays for Cam.

I think RG is all overtop a stationary guy like Barkley. Barkley will start and be a decent player. But I doubt hes any much more successful than Flacco or Sanchez in the long run.
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MikeT14


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
CriminalMind wrote:
My guess is someone will offer picks to Minny to move up.

Not sure if Minny will bite considering who'd be on the board.
Do you think Minny will end up with a worse record than the redskins? I don't. I think they beat us when we play.


Minnesota has a rookie QB you say? Then yes, they win.
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e16bball


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

S. Taylor wrote:
It's going to be funny when RGIII has a killer rookie season...


I don't think it will be that amusing, because while I fully expect that to happen, I'll be sad that being thrown in there from day one will most likely prevent him from taking the necessary steps in terms of fundamentals and technique to reach the upper echelon of the league.

As I said before, guys with great physical abilities like Vince Young, Tim Tebow, and Cam Newton SEEM to crush the argument that such players are "projects." But they don't. They can come in and play early on because their physical tools can carry them. Sure, they're not running a complete or complex NFL offense, but they can run it and throw it a little and make plays and that can get the job done sometimes. But when they're in the game trying to win, and the team is covering up for their flaws because they want to win (instead of breaking down and fixing those flaws), they're not getting any better. They're not making the progress they need to, both above the shoulders and below. The bad habits get even more engrained and you don't have time to work on installing the good habits.

Everyone talks about the unbelievable ceiling dual-threat players like this have, and it's true. But only if you're patient with them. If you rush them, their ceiling is actually extremely limited.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="PARROTHEAD"]
turtle28 wrote:
Tried out 3qbs and none have been able to fit this offensive scheme yet.
I think RGIII fits perfect to it. And if not, you fit the system to better fit him. Like Carolina using Gus Malzans plays for Cam.
he's never been in an offense where you have to anticipate throws. He's never been a drop back passer, I worry about those things. He's also been injury prone in a langue where they don't play defense (the big 12). The other qbs we've had we're vets and vets that the Shanahns wouldn't taylor their offense to so that it would be in the betterment of the team. Why would they draft someone knowing they'd have to taylor parts of their offense so he could be successful in their system. I just don't see it happening. They will draft the guy who is most nfl ready and they feel they can put in place and he will fit the system. Luck and Barkley are better fits.

Quote:
I think RG is all overtop a stationary guy like Barkley. Barkley will start and be a decent player. But I doubt hes any much more successful than Flacco or Sanchez in the long run.
I disagree. Neither Flacco nor Sanchez have had as successful careers as any of these 3 qbs. Griffin is the rawest of all the top 4 prospects it just can't be denied. What he has going for him is talent as potential that can be developed. That's a lot like what Flacco and Sanchez had and why they were drafted in the 1st round. It was mostly off of potential and they were thought to have high ceilings. I like griffin as a prospect but I don't know where this notion that he's going to be better than the others is really coming from other than, a select few just like the guy better than the prototypical nfl qb types in Luck, Barkley or even Jones. I like him also but I don't have blind faith.
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WalterRedskins


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lavar703 wrote:
Sometimes people over-think things and I really feel like that's what is going on with Griffin. All you have to do is watch the kid play and you will see what Parrot and I are seeing. He has the "IT" factor, he has that one thing that no matter how much time you spend under center or in a film room it just can't be taught. He's an amazing talent with the ability to put the ball anywhere on the field with incredible accuracy and his poise in the pocket is outstanding. I'm not concerned about arguing the reasons why I think he is a better fit than Barkley or Jones I'm just giving my opinion of a player that I have watched quite a bit.


He's like a mini-Vince Young. I don't hate him, I won't be mad if we take him but IMO he's not an elite prospect. We've watched him so just because we don't have the same view point as you doesn't mean we're uneducated. I know you're stating your opinion but If you didn't know, it's okay to have differing opinions. . .
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