Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Robert Griffin III is the QB I want to draft.
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
 
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Washington Redskins
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 66172
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lavar703 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
Sometimes people over-think things and I really feel like that's what is going on with Griffin. All you have to do is watch the kid play and you will see what Parrot and I are seeing. He has the "IT" factor, he has that one thing that no matter how much time you spend under center or in a film room it just can't be taught. He's an amazing talent with the ability to put the ball anywhere on the field with incredible accuracy and his poise in the pocket is outstanding. I'm not concerned about arguing the reasons why I think he is a better fit than Barkley or Jones I'm just giving my opinion of a player that I have watched quite a bit.
Well I think Lucks every move is being micromanaged on the football field because he's been the consensus #1 pick for two seasons, so I guess is that way the feeling is mutual.
I no longer concern myself with Andrew Luck because we have no shot at drafting him. I pay most of my attention to Barkley, RGIII and Foles, three players I would be absolutely ecstatic about if we draft one.
I'd be excites about Those guys but Jones and Tanehill are ahead of Foles for me. Foles is squarely a 2nd round pick, Jones and Tanehill will be 1st rounders. I'm not giving up on Luck, why? We are going to have the 2nd or 3rd pick in the draft, if Manning is healthy and Az, Minny or Stl are ahead of we will have a pick they covet. We just have to hope Seattle, Cle and Miami keep winning and Manning gets a healthy report.
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md

"God made certain people to play football... Sean was one" JG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
lavar703


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 5821
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
Sometimes people over-think things and I really feel like that's what is going on with Griffin. All you have to do is watch the kid play and you will see what Parrot and I are seeing. He has the "IT" factor, he has that one thing that no matter how much time you spend under center or in a film room it just can't be taught. He's an amazing talent with the ability to put the ball anywhere on the field with incredible accuracy and his poise in the pocket is outstanding. I'm not concerned about arguing the reasons why I think he is a better fit than Barkley or Jones I'm just giving my opinion of a player that I have watched quite a bit.
Well I think Lucks every move is being micromanaged on the football field because he's been the consensus #1 pick for two seasons, so I guess is that way the feeling is mutual.
I no longer concern myself with Andrew Luck because we have no shot at drafting him. I pay most of my attention to Barkley, RGIII and Foles, three players I would be absolutely ecstatic about if we draft one.
I'd be excites about Those guys but Jones and Tanehill are ahead of Foles for me. Foles is squarely a 2nd round pick, Jones and Tanehill will be 1st rounders. I'm not giving up on Luck, why? We are going to have the 2nd or 3rd pick in the draft, if Manning is healthy and Az, Minny or Stl are ahead of we will have a pick they covet. We just have to hope Seattle, Cle and Miami keep winning and Manning gets a healthy report.


I just don't see any way we end up with Luck. I think he is a rare talent and we normally miss out on those guys lol
_________________
RIP Sean Taylor "Forever a Redskin"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 66172
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheOleBallCoach wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
TheOleBallCoach wrote:
I'd take RG3.....in the second round.

Give me Tannehill over RG3 any day of the week.


I'm sure you'd take Bartell and Tebow over RGIII as well. Tannehill has no business sniffing the first round.


Trying to remember the last time you've responded to one of my posts without a load of snark, can't seem to remember one.

Tannehill's twice the prospect RG3 is.
Not in the 4th quarter Wink
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md

"God made certain people to play football... Sean was one" JG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
lavar703


Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 5821
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheOleBallCoach wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
TheOleBallCoach wrote:
I'd take RG3.....in the second round.

Give me Tannehill over RG3 any day of the week.


I'm sure you'd take Bartell and Tebow over RGIII as well. Tannehill has no business sniffing the first round.


Trying to remember the last time you've responded to one of my posts without a load of snark, can't seem to remember one.

Tannehill's twice the prospect RG3 is.


If you say so....
_________________
RIP Sean Taylor "Forever a Redskin"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheOleBallCoach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 2982
Location: DC area
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
TheOleBallCoach wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
TheOleBallCoach wrote:
I'd take RG3.....in the second round.

Give me Tannehill over RG3 any day of the week.


I'm sure you'd take Bartell and Tebow over RGIII as well. Tannehill has no business sniffing the first round.


Trying to remember the last time you've responded to one of my posts without a load of snark, can't seem to remember one.

Tannehill's twice the prospect RG3 is.
Not in the 4th quarter Wink


I can't even tell you how many drops Tannehill's dealt with. Seriously, someone find me the numbers. A&M receivers.....especially the K-State game, multiple drops, including multiple dropped touchdown passes.
_________________

AdoptASkin - Keiland Williams (Lions) - 57/195/2TD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 66172
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Walterfootball's new mock draft for us:

Round 1: Matt Barkley, QB USC
Round 2: Nick Toon, WR Wisconsin... Although he has Ta'Amu and Chapman slipping in the draft and we pass on both?? Huh?? I can NOT see that happening, if they fall we MUST draft one of them, Preferably Ta'Amu, I think he could be like a Ngata

Round 3: Lucas Nix, G Pitt
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md

"God made certain people to play football... Sean was one" JG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 66172
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheOleBallCoach wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
TheOleBallCoach wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
TheOleBallCoach wrote:
I'd take RG3.....in the second round.

Give me Tannehill over RG3 any day of the week.
I'm sure you'd take Bartell and Tebow over RGIII as well. Tannehill has no business sniffing the first round.
Trying to remember the last time you've responded to one of my posts without a load of snark, can't seem to remember one.

Tannehill's twice the prospect RG3 is.
Not in the 4th quarter Wink
I can't even tell you how many drops Tannehill's dealt with. Seriously, someone find me the numbers. A&M receivers.....especially the K-State game, multiple drops, including multiple dropped touchdown passes.
Mulitple ints also. Look I like Tanheill but I don't think the guy has a prayer of going top 15 in the draft. Most of that is because of Tanehill's inexperience and all of the top 4 qbs have a lot of experience over him and his inconsistencies in the second halfs of games are a red flag. Most Mocks don't even mock him in round 1 right now.
_________________
RIP SSFmike23md

"God made certain people to play football... Sean was one" JG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
TheOleBallCoach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 2982
Location: DC area
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's only had two games with multiple interceptions. He threw 63 times against Oklahoma. 63.

Not all of the picks have been on him, either.

Part of the reason I'm so impressed with the kid. He comes in, day one, after switching from receiver and he's already a player. He's athletic and a great talent. RG3 is awful between the hashes. Look at the film

Go back and look at the LSU film from last season. Against LSU, he's throwing his receivers open. His mechanics are fantastic and don't break down outside the pocket.

And so what if mocks don't have him in the first? I'm not concerned about mocks. Mocks didn't have Dalton in the first. They did have Gabbert in the top ten. Speaks volumes.

This kid is a player. Down on my knees he's in B&G.
_________________

AdoptASkin - Keiland Williams (Lions) - 57/195/2TD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brian23


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 7155
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno man, there's just something about RGIII that scares me. Maybe I like my Prototypes but to me, you can kinda just tell when a QB's gonna be that guy. Or at least, the ones that have the potential to be "that guy". They've got this swagger, this aura about them, and I just don't feel it from RGIII.

Guys like Locker, Bradford, Stafford, hell even Cam recently have given me that feel. The latter of which my brain said was going to epically fail while my heart said he just had that "it".

I dunno, but I'm a guy who likes to go by my gut and I just don't have that "it" feeling from RGIII. Maybe it'll change come Combine time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger
Woz


Moderator
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 21261
Location: in a land where the furniture folds to a much smaller size
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's cooled off a bit from earlier this year, but here's how Robert Griffin compares to himself prior to this season:

2008-2010:
- completion percentage: 64.4% (best year: 2010 (67.0%))
- yards per attempt: 7.69 (best year: 2008 (7.83))
- passer rating: 143.3 (best year: 2010 (144.2))
- run:pass ratio: 0.442 (best year (lowest): 2010 (0.328))

2011:
- completion percentage: 74.2% [+9.8% points above previous 3 year average, +7.2% points above previous best year]
- yards per attempt: 10.24 [2.55 YPA above 3 year average, 2.41 YPA above previous best year]
- passer rating: 188.6 [45.3 points above 3 year average, 44.4 points above previous best year]
- run:pass ratio: 0.384 [he improved about 5.8% based on his 3 year average, but still 5.6% above his best year]


I have severe concerns about Griffin. He's a run-and-shoot quarterback with a statistically aberrant year this year. He's going to come out because the fire is never going to be hotter for him, but the numbers are telling me to stay away. I did catch part of the Baylor-Oklahoma game. That tip drill TD was ridiculous, and I think a NFL caliber defense would crush those runs of his.

He'll be good, but I don't see elite.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bowilson11


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 112
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
mike23md wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
bowilson11 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
He's a great college QB but I don't think his game will translate well to the NFL. He's good for a highlight reel but I don't want to draft him. How many dual threat QBs have won Superbowls? Hopefully we land Barkley or Jones.
MKnight82, maybe you didn't read my entire post, because I posted RG III's stats for the season and they read like a Top-5 Heisman Candidate (please see the last line of my post). Yes, he is dual threat and in the NFL today you need a QB who can stand in the pocket and get completions, but can also avoid the rush and make something happen outside the pocket (like RG III can ). He not the typical run first and throw second QB. He's a thrower that happens to possess world class speed. Superbowl winner comparison: Steve Young.

Jones stat line against Baylor's D (ranked 111th): Jones 36/51 447 0 1

RG III stat line against OU's D (ranked 61st): Griffin 21/34 479 4 0

Please stop looking at all QB with the ability to run as runner. I think RG III has proved that he can throw it with the best of them.
The guys got talent. I'm just not sure yet, I'm just not sold he's going to be as solid in the pros. There are a lot of guys who rip it up for a while in college in offense like his but it doesn't translate to success in the pros. Right now I have him #3 behind Barkley. I want to see what rgiii does in the events leading unto the draft.


A majority of those guys play in a system like Hawaii, Mizzou, etc..where the offense is spread and the QB is slinging the ball all over the place. Colt Brennan got this fame, Kevin Kolb from Houston, this other kid from Houston etc.

Those QB's dont really transition well into the pros. But RGIII is doing this against Big 12 talent. Have to see how he does in the pressures of a bowl game, but I would not count him out as a potential QB in DC.
I'm not counting him out either, that is exactly my position. I have him behind Luck and Barkley. I agree with your previous post about he needs work but he's a great prospect.

Oh and the qb from Houston now is Case Keenum. Wink
Every Qb coming out of college needs some work. I agree on that point, but when you say he needs work be more specific about where he needs work. Here's the latest scouting report on RG III: http://nflmocks.com/2011/09/03/robert-griffin-iii-2012-draft-scouting-report/

For weaknesses: It states that where he is lacking in the play-calling area where I guess the coaches call all the plays. And can he make pre-snap reads.

For Strengths: It states that he has excellent footwork, decision making ability, precision in the pocket and Throwing power.

I agree there's a toss up between him and Barkley right now, but I feel his overall athleticism pushes him ahead of Barkley in my opinion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bowilson11


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 112
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

e16bball wrote:
mike23md wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
bowilson11 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
He's a great college QB but I don't think his game will translate well to the NFL. He's good for a highlight reel but I don't want to draft him. How many dual threat QBs have won Superbowls? Hopefully we land Barkley or Jones.
MKnight82, maybe you didn't read my entire post, because I posted RG III's stats for the season and they read like a Top-5 Heisman Candidate (please see the last line of my post). Yes, he is dual threat and in the NFL today you need a QB who can stand in the pocket and get completions, but can also avoid the rush and make something happen outside the pocket (like RG III can ). He not the typical run first and throw second QB. He's a thrower that happens to possess world class speed. Superbowl winner comparison: Steve Young.

Jones stat line against Baylor's D (ranked 111th): Jones 36/51 447 0 1

RG III stat line against OU's D (ranked 61st): Griffin 21/34 479 4 0

Please stop looking at all QB with the ability to run as runner. I think RG III has proved that he can throw it with the best of them.
The guys got talent. I'm just not sure yet, I'm just not sold he's going to be as solid in the pros. There are a lot of guys who rip it up for a while in college in offense like his but it doesn't translate to success in the pros. Right now I have him #3 behind Barkley. I want to see what rgiii does in the events leading unto the draft.


A majority of those guys play in a system like Hawaii, Mizzou, etc..where the offense is spread and the QB is slinging the ball all over the place. Colt Brennan got this fame, Kevin Kolb from Houston, this other kid from Houston etc.

Those QB's dont really transition well into the pros. But RGIII is doing this against Big 12 talent. Have to see how he does in the pressures of a bowl game, but I would not count him out as a potential QB in DC.


The problem is that Graham Harrell, B.J. Symons, Kliff Kingsbury, etc. etc. all did the exact same thing against Big XII talent, in a very similar offense, and they never amounted to anything more than squadoosh.

I understand the excitement about such a great athlete running a system like that, because it probably hasn't happened since Andre Ware in the late 1980s. There's absolutely no question about so much in Griffin's toolbox --- intelligence, mobility, arm, toughness, beautiful deep ball, etc. He brings a lot to the table, a lot you can really like. Let's not forget, I was one of the only folks who had him ranked as one of his top 5 QBs coming into the season, so it's not like I'm some sort of hater. I love the kid's game.

But just keep in mind, it's a HUGE risk. These wide-open run and shoot type offenses have NEVER turned out a successful NFL QB in the nearly 25 years they've been in operation. There's a huge difference between being accurate when you're throwing into huge windows created by route combinations that flummox college defenses and making successful throws at the NFL level. There's a big transition between making the limited reads that offense requires (and then pulling it down and running, in RGIII's case) and making the complex decisions the NFL game requires.

I think Griffin has the tools to make those transitions. But understand also that forcing him to play early is the absolute worst thing that could happen. He probably COULD, because his physical abilities will carry him initially, like Vince Young and Cam Newton and Tim Tebow have shown in past years. But he'll never make that transition to the next level, thinking through the game from an intellectual and analytical standpoint like the real elites, if you throw him into the fray from day one. So if you're going with Griffin, you absolutely 100% have to get a caretaker QB who can play while he's sitting and learning. Asking him to move from that offense to Kyle's in the course of one offseason simply isn't fair, and could have tragic results for both his career and the team.
Very well spoken
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
e16bball


Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 14996
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your point is well-taken, Woz. I think we should expect serious progress from a now-junior QB, so I don't want to write off all of that (Barkley, for example, has also been substantially better this season than he was in previous seasons), but we do have to keep in mind that Griffin's passing stats aren't much different than other wide-open offense QBs who don't get nearly the buzz or hype (Case Keenum, for example).

The thing I like about Griffin is that you don't see much dropoff when he's facing better defenses. He did struggle against Oklahoma State, but he lit up Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Kansas State, and Missouri. A guy like Tannehill, for example, you can't say the same. He's done most of his damage against the weaker defenses he's faced. In the college game, some guys are good enough to destroy the lesser talented opponents, but they can't get it done against teams with more NFL talent. That doesn't seem to be the case with Griffin.

My sense on Griffin is that he's still a much better fit for the late teens or early 20s. Someone may go for him higher than that based on need and projection, but that's where I'd be comfortable taking him. The ideal situation with Griffin, of course, would be to get a quality placeholder QB (not going to name any specific names) and trade down to something like #16 to pick up extra picks. Picks we might be able to use to move back into the 1st round to grab a player like Ta'amu or even Te'o (who I see as a great replacement for Fletcher).
_________________


O.J. Atogwe Tracker: 25 Tackles | 1 INT | 2 PDs | 2 TFLs | 1 sack
Saverio Rocca Tracker: 44.2 AVG | 41.2 NET | 14/25 IN20
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bowilson11


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 112
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lilmac3 wrote:
Hey guys, long time not see. Turtle linked my Hogs Haven piece on Griffin on the mobile site, so here's the full link.

http://www.hogshaven.com/2011/10/27/2517456/could-robert-griffin-iii-be-the-next-redskins-quarterback

I really like this kid too. But I also did a breakdown on Matt Barkley recently and he's going to be good as well. Either one of those two would be great for us.
Validation of my point. This is an outstanding piece on RG III. Plus, he will graduate in three years at Baylor.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bowilson11


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 112
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

e16bball wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
I think it's pretty clear where I stand on this. My opinion of the QBs:
    Elite franchise guys: Luck + RGIII
    Good franchise QBs: Barkley, Foles
    Average-to-good long-time starter: Landry Jones
    Wildcard: Tannehill (I think he could end up in any of the three categories or bust)

I'm also an admitted fan of Kirk Cousins coming to DC, and if they could manage it, would allow for the QB situation to be settled for a long-time. In 2012, you would start with REx as the QB, RGIII would come in eventually (much like Jay Cutler) and Kirk Cousins would be the third stringer. Fast forward a year and I think you could have two second year players at the position.

I guess the most likely scenario is:
    Step One - Draft elite QB prospect
    Step Two - Rex starts the season, replaced midway through or late in the season.
    Step Three - John Beck is the third stringer (helping to teach elite young QB prospect)
    Step Four - One of Rex or Beck is kept. I think it's clear that Rex is the far superior QB but I'm assuming the most important factor will be educating the young QB(s) so that may be Beck's saving grace.
I'm usually not a fan of taking two qbs in a draft, but I'm not really opposed to your proposal here Footy. To me, it all depends on where Cousins is projected to be drafted. Right now, it's kind of up in the air. I could see him going anywhere from late 2nd to the top of the 4th. This team just needs so many things via the draft. We need especially young OL, an ILB, a NT and another young CB that I'm not sure we take a prospect such as Cousins.


I usually like footy's ideas, but this is one I can't ride with. Cousins is probably more NFL-ready than Griffin right now. He doesn't have nearly the upside, but he plays in a much more reasonable system where he's under center much more often. All the footwork, all the transitioning to taking snaps under center, that's the sort of thing that he'll be able to pull off much more quickly than RGIII.

The amount of pressure that would create on RGIII could never be in his best interest. Just think about it, you're drafted to a team like the Redskins to be the one to bring them back to glory --- and then they draft another guy two rounds later? Do they really believe in you when they're hedging their bets like that? And then that guy comes into practice and he's picking things up more quickly than you, getting praised for his footwork, etc. So you start to press, and you keep looking over your shoulder at the other guy to see what he's doing. It's just a bad situation all around.

When you take a QB, you have to commit to him. So much of the game at that position is about confidence --- do you believe in the QB, do his teammates believe in him, does he believe in himself? That's how you develop a leader. And if you undermine a guy within two rounds of his very first draft, you've created a rift from day one that has a real chance of causing problems for you down the road. Especially when the top guy is more of a project than the lower rated guy.
Why is there still so much stock put on being under center when Brady, Peyton, Rodgers spend the better part of the game in the shotgun? The don't hear the cry that they need to spend more time under center. The game of football has changed. QBs have less time to react today then ever before so most teams use the shotgun to give their QBs time to read the defenses and react. Defensive players are much faster and stronger and get to the QBs quicker. I agree that a QB has to be able to play from under center, but I don't think it's a make or break deal.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Washington Redskins All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Page 4 of 10

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group