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Robert Griffin III is the QB I want to draft.
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footy_29


Joined: 31 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's pretty clear where I stand on this. My opinion of the QBs:
    Elite franchise guys: Luck + RGIII
    Good franchise QBs: Barkley, Foles
    Average-to-good long-time starter: Landry Jones
    Wildcard: Tannehill (I think he could end up in any of the three categories or bust)

I'm also an admitted fan of Kirk Cousins coming to DC, and if they could manage it, would allow for the QB situation to be settled for a long-time. In 2012, you would start with REx as the QB, RGIII would come in eventually (much like Jay Cutler) and Kirk Cousins would be the third stringer. Fast forward a year and I think you could have two second year players at the position.

I guess the most likely scenario is:
    Step One - Draft elite QB prospect
    Step Two - Rex starts the season, replaced midway through or late in the season.
    Step Three - John Beck is the third stringer (helping to teach elite young QB prospect)
    Step Four - One of Rex or Beck is kept. I think it's clear that Rex is the far superior QB but I'm assuming the most important factor will be educating the young QB(s) so that may be Beck's saving grace.

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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike23md wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
bowilson11 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
He's a great college QB but I don't think his game will translate well to the NFL. He's good for a highlight reel but I don't want to draft him. How many dual threat QBs have won Superbowls? Hopefully we land Barkley or Jones.
MKnight82, maybe you didn't read my entire post, because I posted RG III's stats for the season and they read like a Top-5 Heisman Candidate (please see the last line of my post). Yes, he is dual threat and in the NFL today you need a QB who can stand in the pocket and get completions, but can also avoid the rush and make something happen outside the pocket (like RG III can ). He not the typical run first and throw second QB. He's a thrower that happens to possess world class speed. Superbowl winner comparison: Steve Young.

Jones stat line against Baylor's D (ranked 111th): Jones 36/51 447 0 1

RG III stat line against OU's D (ranked 61st): Griffin 21/34 479 4 0

Please stop looking at all QB with the ability to run as runner. I think RG III has proved that he can throw it with the best of them.
The guys got talent. I'm just not sure yet, I'm just not sold he's going to be as solid in the pros. There are a lot of guys who rip it up for a while in college in offense like his but it doesn't translate to success in the pros. Right now I have him #3 behind Barkley. I want to see what rgiii does in the events leading unto the draft.


A majority of those guys play in a system like Hawaii, Mizzou, etc..where the offense is spread and the QB is slinging the ball all over the place. Colt Brennan got this fame, Kevin Kolb from Houston, this other kid from Houston etc.

Those QB's dont really transition well into the pros. But RGIII is doing this against Big 12 talent. Have to see how he does in the pressures of a bowl game, but I would not count him out as a potential QB in DC.
I'm not counting him out either, that is exactly my position. I have him behind Luck and Barkley. I agree with your previous post about he needs work but he's a great prospect.

Oh and the qb from Houston now is Case Keenum. Wink
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PARROTHEAD


Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 4379
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

footy_29 wrote:
I think it's pretty clear where I stand on this. My opinion of the QBs:
    Elite franchise guys: Luck + RGIII
    Good franchise QBs: Barkley, Foles
    Average-to-good long-time starter: Landry Jones
    Wildcard: Tannehill (I think he could end up in any of the three categories or bust)



I agree with that part. Also think Tyler Wilson is a wildcard guy.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PARROTHEAD wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
I think it's pretty clear where I stand on this. My opinion of the QBs:
    Elite franchise guys: Luck + RGIII
    Good franchise QBs: Barkley, Foles
    Average-to-good long-time starter: Landry Jones
    Wildcard: Tannehill (I think he could end up in any of the three categories or bust)



I agree with that part. Also think Tyler Wilson is a wildcard guy.
I hope Wilson comes out, but I'm not sure if he will. If he goes back next year he could be a top 10 pick with guys like Andy Murray. Right now, Wilson is in Tanehill territory, or just behind it IMO
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e16bball


Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike23md wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
bowilson11 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
He's a great college QB but I don't think his game will translate well to the NFL. He's good for a highlight reel but I don't want to draft him. How many dual threat QBs have won Superbowls? Hopefully we land Barkley or Jones.
MKnight82, maybe you didn't read my entire post, because I posted RG III's stats for the season and they read like a Top-5 Heisman Candidate (please see the last line of my post). Yes, he is dual threat and in the NFL today you need a QB who can stand in the pocket and get completions, but can also avoid the rush and make something happen outside the pocket (like RG III can ). He not the typical run first and throw second QB. He's a thrower that happens to possess world class speed. Superbowl winner comparison: Steve Young.

Jones stat line against Baylor's D (ranked 111th): Jones 36/51 447 0 1

RG III stat line against OU's D (ranked 61st): Griffin 21/34 479 4 0

Please stop looking at all QB with the ability to run as runner. I think RG III has proved that he can throw it with the best of them.
The guys got talent. I'm just not sure yet, I'm just not sold he's going to be as solid in the pros. There are a lot of guys who rip it up for a while in college in offense like his but it doesn't translate to success in the pros. Right now I have him #3 behind Barkley. I want to see what rgiii does in the events leading unto the draft.


A majority of those guys play in a system like Hawaii, Mizzou, etc..where the offense is spread and the QB is slinging the ball all over the place. Colt Brennan got this fame, Kevin Kolb from Houston, this other kid from Houston etc.

Those QB's dont really transition well into the pros. But RGIII is doing this against Big 12 talent. Have to see how he does in the pressures of a bowl game, but I would not count him out as a potential QB in DC.


The problem is that Graham Harrell, B.J. Symons, Kliff Kingsbury, etc. etc. all did the exact same thing against Big XII talent, in a very similar offense, and they never amounted to anything more than squadoosh.

I understand the excitement about such a great athlete running a system like that, because it probably hasn't happened since Andre Ware in the late 1980s. There's absolutely no question about so much in Griffin's toolbox --- intelligence, mobility, arm, toughness, beautiful deep ball, etc. He brings a lot to the table, a lot you can really like. Let's not forget, I was one of the only folks who had him ranked as one of his top 5 QBs coming into the season, so it's not like I'm some sort of hater. I love the kid's game.

But just keep in mind, it's a HUGE risk. These wide-open run and shoot type offenses have NEVER turned out a successful NFL QB in the nearly 25 years they've been in operation. There's a huge difference between being accurate when you're throwing into huge windows created by route combinations that flummox college defenses and making successful throws at the NFL level. There's a big transition between making the limited reads that offense requires (and then pulling it down and running, in RGIII's case) and making the complex decisions the NFL game requires.

I think Griffin has the tools to make those transitions. But understand also that forcing him to play early is the absolute worst thing that could happen. He probably COULD, because his physical abilities will carry him initially, like Vince Young and Cam Newton and Tim Tebow have shown in past years. But he'll never make that transition to the next level, thinking through the game from an intellectual and analytical standpoint like the real elites, if you throw him into the fray from day one. So if you're going with Griffin, you absolutely 100% have to get a caretaker QB who can play while he's sitting and learning. Asking him to move from that offense to Kyle's in the course of one offseason simply isn't fair, and could have tragic results for both his career and the team.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

footy_29 wrote:
I think it's pretty clear where I stand on this. My opinion of the QBs:
    Elite franchise guys: Luck + RGIII
    Good franchise QBs: Barkley, Foles
    Average-to-good long-time starter: Landry Jones
    Wildcard: Tannehill (I think he could end up in any of the three categories or bust)

I'm also an admitted fan of Kirk Cousins coming to DC, and if they could manage it, would allow for the QB situation to be settled for a long-time. In 2012, you would start with REx as the QB, RGIII would come in eventually (much like Jay Cutler) and Kirk Cousins would be the third stringer. Fast forward a year and I think you could have two second year players at the position.

I guess the most likely scenario is:
    Step One - Draft elite QB prospect
    Step Two - Rex starts the season, replaced midway through or late in the season.
    Step Three - John Beck is the third stringer (helping to teach elite young QB prospect)
    Step Four - One of Rex or Beck is kept. I think it's clear that Rex is the far superior QB but I'm assuming the most important factor will be educating the young QB(s) so that may be Beck's saving grace.
I'm usually not a fan of taking two qbs in a draft, but I'm not really opposed to your proposal here Footy. To me, it all depends on where Cousins is projected to be drafted. Right now, it's kind of up in the air. I could see him going anywhere from late 2nd to the top of the 4th. This team just needs so many things via the draft. We need especially young OL, an ILB, a NT and another young CB that I'm not sure we take a prospect such as Cousins.
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e16bball


Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 14997
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
I think it's pretty clear where I stand on this. My opinion of the QBs:
    Elite franchise guys: Luck + RGIII
    Good franchise QBs: Barkley, Foles
    Average-to-good long-time starter: Landry Jones
    Wildcard: Tannehill (I think he could end up in any of the three categories or bust)

I'm also an admitted fan of Kirk Cousins coming to DC, and if they could manage it, would allow for the QB situation to be settled for a long-time. In 2012, you would start with REx as the QB, RGIII would come in eventually (much like Jay Cutler) and Kirk Cousins would be the third stringer. Fast forward a year and I think you could have two second year players at the position.

I guess the most likely scenario is:
    Step One - Draft elite QB prospect
    Step Two - Rex starts the season, replaced midway through or late in the season.
    Step Three - John Beck is the third stringer (helping to teach elite young QB prospect)
    Step Four - One of Rex or Beck is kept. I think it's clear that Rex is the far superior QB but I'm assuming the most important factor will be educating the young QB(s) so that may be Beck's saving grace.
I'm usually not a fan of taking two qbs in a draft, but I'm not really opposed to your proposal here Footy. To me, it all depends on where Cousins is projected to be drafted. Right now, it's kind of up in the air. I could see him going anywhere from late 2nd to the top of the 4th. This team just needs so many things via the draft. We need especially young OL, an ILB, a NT and another young CB that I'm not sure we take a prospect such as Cousins.


I usually like footy's ideas, but this is one I can't ride with. Cousins is probably more NFL-ready than Griffin right now. He doesn't have nearly the upside, but he plays in a much more reasonable system where he's under center much more often. All the footwork, all the transitioning to taking snaps under center, that's the sort of thing that he'll be able to pull off much more quickly than RGIII.

The amount of pressure that would create on RGIII could never be in his best interest. Just think about it, you're drafted to a team like the Redskins to be the one to bring them back to glory --- and then they draft another guy two rounds later? Do they really believe in you when they're hedging their bets like that? And then that guy comes into practice and he's picking things up more quickly than you, getting praised for his footwork, etc. So you start to press, and you keep looking over your shoulder at the other guy to see what he's doing. It's just a bad situation all around.

When you take a QB, you have to commit to him. So much of the game at that position is about confidence --- do you believe in the QB, do his teammates believe in him, does he believe in himself? That's how you develop a leader. And if you undermine a guy within two rounds of his very first draft, you've created a rift from day one that has a real chance of causing problems for you down the road. Especially when the top guy is more of a project than the lower rated guy.
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lavar703


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree E, you can't just throw him to the wolves immediately. I would like to see the team go after Shaun Hill who seems to play well every time he's given an opportunity plus I think he did a good job with mentoring Stafford.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

e16bball wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
I think it's pretty clear where I stand on this. My opinion of the QBs:
    Elite franchise guys: Luck + RGIII
    Good franchise QBs: Barkley, Foles
    Average-to-good long-time starter: Landry Jones
    Wildcard: Tannehill (I think he could end up in any of the three categories or bust)

I'm also an admitted fan of Kirk Cousins coming to DC, and if they could manage it, would allow for the QB situation to be settled for a long-time. In 2012, you would start with REx as the QB, RGIII would come in eventually (much like Jay Cutler) and Kirk Cousins would be the third stringer. Fast forward a year and I think you could have two second year players at the position.

I guess the most likely scenario is:
    Step One - Draft elite QB prospect
    Step Two - Rex starts the season, replaced midway through or late in the season.
    Step Three - John Beck is the third stringer (helping to teach elite young QB prospect)
    Step Four - One of Rex or Beck is kept. I think it's clear that Rex is the far superior QB but I'm assuming the most important factor will be educating the young QB(s) so that may be Beck's saving grace.
I'm usually not a fan of taking two qbs in a draft, but I'm not really opposed to your proposal here Footy. To me, it all depends on where Cousins is projected to be drafted. Right now, it's kind of up in the air. I could see him going anywhere from late 2nd to the top of the 4th. This team just needs so many things via the draft. We need especially young OL, an ILB, a NT and another young CB that I'm not sure we take a prospect such as Cousins.


I usually like footy's ideas, but this is one I can't ride with. Cousins is probably more NFL-ready than Griffin right now. He doesn't have nearly the upside, but he plays in a much more reasonable system where he's under center much more often. All the footwork, all the transitioning to taking snaps under center, that's the sort of thing that he'll be able to pull off much more quickly than RGIII.

The amount of pressure that would create on RGIII could never be in his best interest. Just think about it, you're drafted to a team like the Redskins to be the one to bring them back to glory --- and then they draft another guy two rounds later? Do they really believe in you when they're hedging their bets like that? And then that guy comes into practice and he's picking things up more quickly than you, getting praised for his footwork, etc. So you start to press, and you keep looking over your shoulder at the other guy to see what he's doing. It's just a bad situation all around.

When you take a QB, you have to commit to him. So much of the game at that position is about confidence --- do you believe in the QB, do his teammates believe in him, does he believe in himself? That's how you develop a leader. And if you undermine a guy within two rounds of his very first draft, you've created a rift from day one that has a real chance of causing problems for you down the road. Especially when the top guy is more of a project than the lower rated guy.
It worked out well for Troy Aikman in his battles with Jimmy's guy "Steve Walsh" of course there have been countless cases where it has probably hurt the 1st drafted prospect more than it's helped them, such as us drafting Gus Ferrotte in the same draft as Heath Shuler and Gus being more NFL ready and picking up the offense better than Heath. I never really thought of it the way you are explaining it though. I saw it more as us acquiring young talent at the QB position, where we need it more than anywhere else on the team. I guess in your scenario it would likely be a bad thing though because the 1st QB would most likely see it the way you described.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lavar703 wrote:
I agree E, you can't just throw him to the wolves immediately. I would like to see the team go after Shaun Hill who seems to play well every time he's given an opportunity plus I think he did a good job with mentoring Stafford.
I like Shaun Hill but I think if the options laid before the Shanahan's were picking up Shaun Hill to learn their offense and keeping Rex Grossman, they would stay the course with Rex and hope that with upgrades, and better health along the offense it would mean playoff contenders. I'm not saying I agree with them, I don't, but I'm 99% sure they would see it this way. Rex also knows the offense about as good as anyone at this point, so "if he's willing"... big Question , then he could be a good mentor to the young qb in that sense.
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Chief_Zee


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RG3 is also #2 on my list behind Luck. I agree with E that he is a big risk, but his potential is bigger than Cam Newton's right now IMO. I think Shanny will like him, considering he tends to love big arms (Jay Cutler), and I think he is a real possibility for this team.

My question to those who may know, is what is the difference between Baylor's offensive system compared to Auburn's offense last year with Cam Newton. I heard similar concerns about the offensive system Auburn ran with Cam last year, and that he would take time to adjust. But I feel that Baylor's offensive system is more of a concern this year for RG3. Anybody know why?
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lavar703


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
lavar703 wrote:
I agree E, you can't just throw him to the wolves immediately. I would like to see the team go after Shaun Hill who seems to play well every time he's given an opportunity plus I think he did a good job with mentoring Stafford.
I like Shaun Hill but I think if the options laid before the Shanahan's were picking up Shaun Hill to learn their offense and keeping Rex Grossman, they would stay the course with Rex and hope that with upgrades, and better health along the offense it would mean playoff contenders. I'm not saying I agree with them, I don't, but I'm 99% sure they would see it this way. Rex also knows the offense about as good as anyone at this point, so "if he's willing"... big Question , then he could be a good mentor to the young qb in that sense.


I agree
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PSID412


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do we know if RGIII is even coming into the draft? I heard rumours he could be going back.

Personally I think we get Barkley or Jones.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chief_Zee wrote:
RG3 is also #2 on my list behind Luck. I agree with E that he is a big risk, but his potential is bigger than Cam Newton's right now IMO. I think Shanny will like him, considering he tends to love big arms (Jay Cutler), and I think he is a real possibility for this team.

My question to those who may know, is what is the difference between Baylor's offensive system compared to Auburn's offense last year with Cam Newton. I heard similar concerns about the offensive system Auburn ran with Cam last year, and that he would take time to adjust. But I feel that Baylor's offensive system is more of a concern this year for RG3. Anybody know why?


http://mobile.hogshaven.com/2011/10/27/2517456/could-robert-griffin-iii-be-the-next-redskins-quarterback

http://tommeltonscouting.wordpress.com/2011/11/08/updated-robert-griffin-scouting-report/

http://nflsfuture.com/robert-griffin-iii-scouting-report/

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=3046

Hope everyone enjoys the reads. Sure is opening my eyes. I still like Luck and Barkley better for their readiness to start right away but Griffin has loads of untapped potential. My problem is I'm not a big potential guy, I don't fall in live with what a guy could be. I love prospects for what they currently are, not what they could be. It's why I liked Kerrigan, he was already a developed prospect, it's why I liked Okung over TWill in the 2010 draft also.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I watched the Baylor & Oklahoma game too and came away a bandwagoneer.

I want RGlll Exclamation

Want to know what impressed me?
Wasn't his Vick-like Speed
Wasn't his deadly accuracy
it wasn't even his great arm or the across the shoulder throw to win it.

It was his smarts on the field.
His vision of knowing where he was be it running or passing.

I'm also impressed with his ball control ability.
I don't know how many fumbles he''s had this season,but to hold on to that ball the way he did was impressive. Vick could learn something that...

What probably impressed me the most, was his post-game interview.

He seems very intelligent and well spoken.
Very down to earth and confident...yet humble and not full of himself.
The huge win was not an upset to him...just another game he had to play strong for his team.

I like that a lot. That's HUGE to me...

I now have 2 guys I want in the 1st rd.....
RGlll &
Vontaze Burfict


And I agree...RGlll is like a right-handed Michael Vick.

Hopefully minus many of the traits.

We need to get this dude, guys...
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