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spr217
Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 71
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 Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:21 pm Post subject: Devin McCourty: Worst Cornerback in the NFL |
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According to Pro Football Focus, Devin McCourty has been targeted third most in the NFL (58 times), while allowing the most receptions (40) and the most yards (544). By my estimation, that makes him statistically the worst cornerback in the NFL.
My question is, why? Was last season an enigma? Was he even that good last year? The fact that he is being targeted so frequently means coaches throughout the league have studied him on film and view him as a weak link (in an already tremendously weak secondary). By comparison, Kyle Arrington has been targeted only 33 times for 17 catches and 258 yards with 4 picks (McCourty has zero).
He is not listed on any injury report. What the hell is going on with him? He looks slow and, quite frankly, I think he just isn't very good. |
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Sciz
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 12835
Location: Iowa
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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Marshall and Jackson both put up big games (139 and 172), mainly against him. He's been much better since then.
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samgurl775
Joined: 09 Oct 2009
Posts: 11094
Location: Lake Tahoe, NV
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Sciz wrote: | | Marshall and Jackson both put up big games (139 and 172), mainly against him. He's been much better since then. |
Didn't Steve Johnson have a big day too? I could be remembering wrong, but I recall a lot of "so much for him only having trouble with big receivers" after that game.
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patsfan25
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 2861
Location: CenCal
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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He's been playing much better but it still doesn't excuse his poor play to start the season. He can still cover. Shadows WRs and running stride for stride but has just failed to make plays on the ball. The scheme change and inaffectiveness of the front 7 doesn't help either.
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spr217
Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Sciz wrote: | | Marshall and Jackson both put up big games (139 and 172), mainly against him. He's been much better since then. |
He struggled mightily against Buffalo against both Steve Johnson and Donald Jones. He didn't pass the eyeball test in any of the other games he's played, particularly against Dallas, where he missed a number of easy tackles that resulted in large gains. He's missed 6 tackles total this year, an alarming number for a supposedly sound tackler (he missed 4 in total last year).
Additionally, this does little to explain the enormous amount of targets that he's received. Despite getting carved up in the beginning of the year while playing press coverage at the line, if he settled down and tightened up when they returned to zone opposing coaches would not be targeting him as much as they are. Clearly, they're attacking a perceived weakness. Targets may be the best measure of a cornerback's play because they represent how he is perceived by opposing coaches, who are experts and have access enormous amounts of information (even more than the countless Belichick apologists/sycophants who frequent this site). They didn't stop thinking he was a bum once we returned to a zone scheme.
Moreover, he has ZERO picks despite being constantly thrown at. Despite all the opportunities that he's had to make a play (third most in the league) he hasn't made a SINGLE interception.
I was very high on this kid last year, so count me amongst those who prematurely dubbed him the second coming of Ty Law, but I think he may very well, as the great Bill Parcells would say, STINK. |
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Tzimisce
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 40627
Location: Slowly coming to terms with the inevitable
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: Devin McCourty: Worst Cornerback in the NFL |
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[sigh] here we go again
| spr217 wrote: | | According to Pro Football Focus |
There's your first mistake. PFF's numbers are, to put it mildly, highly suspect. For myriad reasons. Not the least of which is the fact that they can't discern between man and zone coverage, and they don't really pay attention to assignments. They just charge catches to the nearest defender, regardless of whether it was his job to cover the guy that made the catch.
A perfect example of this is that they charge McCourty with having allowed Jason Witten's TD 3 weeks ago because he was the first to contact Witten after he caught the ball, even though it was clearly not his assignment.
| Quote: |
Devin McCourty has been targeted third most in the NFL (58 times), while allowing the most receptions (40) and the most yards (544). By my estimation, that makes him statistically the worst cornerback in the NFL. |
Those numbers are dubious for the reasons mentioned above and the first 3 games of the season continue to be an albatross around his neck, even though he's improved significantly since then. Against the Jets and Raiders, he was thrown at a total of 5 times and allowed 4 catches for something like 35 yards. Against the Cowboys it was a bit spottier, but the worst thing he did was letting Laurent Robinson slip out of a tackle [he had him stopped for a gain of maybe 7 or 8 yards] and run an extra 25 yards after that, but in coverage he was solid. Against the Steelers, he was about the only Pats DB who DIDN'T get abused. He allowed nothing to Mike Wallace [i.e. one of the most dangerous receivers in the league] and only 2 or 3 catches to everyone else.
| Quote: | | My question is, why? Was last season an enigma? |
No, the enigma is why you used the word "enigma" in that context...
| Quote: | | Was he even that good last year? |
Yes. Just outside the top 5. There's a reason he was voted 2nd team All-Pro.
| Quote: | | The fact that he is being targeted so frequently means coaches throughout the league have studied him on film and view him as a weak link (in an already tremendously weak secondary). |
But he hasn't been targeted that often in the last 4 games. By my count, a total of 15 times against the Raiders, Jets, Cowboys and Steelers.
| Quote: | | By comparison, Kyle Arrington has been targeted only 33 times for 17 catches and 258 yards with 4 picks (McCourty has zero). |
Arrington has been playing great in the slot... Not so great on the edge. And 3 of his 4 picks have come either on lucky deflections or in garbage time.
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He is not listed on any injury report. |
First thing you've gotten right in this whole post.
| Quote: | | What the hell is going on with him? |
Nothing. He had a bad start to the season. A lot of DBs who were considered elite last year did. Just look at Brandon Flowers. His metrics look better because he was the beneficiary of Raider QBs going full retard a couple of weeks ago, but the first 3 weeks of the year he was just as bad as McCourty.
| Quote: | He looks slow
and, quite frankly, I think he just isn't very good. |
Whatever. You're off base. If McCourty was as OMGHESSOAWFUL as you seem to think, he'd have been benched by now. Belichick, as we've all seen, isn't afraid to bench or cut players who under-perform, regardless of when they were drafted or how much they're being paid. Obviously McCourty is doing better than you [and frankly, most people] seem to think he is since he's played more defensive snaps this year than any other Pats player.
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Tzimisce
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 40627
Location: Slowly coming to terms with the inevitable
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| samgurl775 wrote: | | Sciz wrote: | | Marshall and Jackson both put up big games (139 and 172), mainly against him. He's been much better since then. |
Didn't Steve Johnson have a big day too? I could be remembering wrong, but I recall a lot of "so much for him only having trouble with big receivers" after that game. |
Johnson did most of his damage on the other side of the field against Bodden. He did have a TD catch on McCourty on a fade route when McCourty whiffed badly trying to press him at the line. He gave up one other big play to Donald Jones in that game.
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NinjaZX6R
Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 6788
Location: Columbus, Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Bravo Triz, Bravo! |
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Stunnaboy
Joined: 31 Oct 2011
Posts: 3884
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:42 am Post subject: |
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While I don't have the access to stats, the eye test suggests he has gotten VASTLY better after the first 4 games. I don't know where the 2010 McCourty went to but I'm starting to see more of him as the season is progressing. Now some picks would aide that....
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spr217
Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:29 am Post subject: |
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"PFF's numbers are, to put it mildly, highly suspect. For myriad reasons. Not the least of which is the fact that they can't discern between man and zone coverage, and they don't really pay attention to assignments. They just charge catches to the nearest defender, regardless of whether it was his job to cover the guy that made the catch."
How do you have such a detailed understanding of their methodology, much less what a player's assignment is on a particular play?
"He allowed nothing to Mike Wallace [i.e. one of the most dangerous receivers in the league] and only 2 or 3 catches to everyone else."
If he doesn't deserve to be penalized for giving up plays that were not his responsibility in zone, nor should he be credited with 'shutting down' Mike Wallace. Please be consistent. More importantly, our entire game plan revolved around containing Wallace and not giving up the big play. McCourty gave Wallace a huge cushion and had help on every down, a primary reason why Heath Miller tore us apart down the seam. When your outside guys cannot be relied upon to play any man/have to be given a ton of help in zone, it opens up other parts of the field.
"By my count, a total of 15 times against the Raiders, Jets, Cowboys and Steelers."
So he was targeted 43 times in the first three games? Please work out the math before you manufacture statistics. I also wasn't aware that you were given a copy of the coach's tape to help with your analysis.
"Belichick, as we've all seen, isn't afraid to bench or cut players who under-perform, regardless of when they were drafted"
First round picks are given much more time and opportunity to succeed. Maroney and Merriweather were both traded/cut in the final year of their contracts after being given a MILLION chances to improve their performance and attitude. I think Belichick develops crushes on players whom he feels display a strong work ethic/intelligence/scrappiness (eg Ninkovitch) etc. He's clearly fond of McCourty, a captain in only his second year.
Considering the fact that he's given up a lot of plays (regardless of how you quantify it) this season, made no significant plays in coverage, has displayed poor tackling, and is the number one corner on a team that ranks dead last in the league in pass defense, I don't feel like it's ridiculous to consider the possibility that his rookie season was an anomaly. |
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terbo559
Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 2742
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:01 am Post subject: |
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The new scheme changes gives McCourty too much responsibilities as a second year corner. It seems like McCourty looks a bit lost out there now because he plays a lot of zone, and he plays the run more than he has last season. Also our defense never really play bump and run man coverage, that's why everyone is always getting burned.
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pats83
Joined: 30 Apr 2010
Posts: 1887
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| terbo559 wrote: | | The new scheme changes gives McCourty too much responsibilities as a second year corner. It seems like McCourty looks a bit lost out there now because he plays a lot of zone, and he plays the run more than he has last season. Also our defense never really play bump and run man coverage, that's why everyone is always getting burned. |
He played almost exclusively zone last year.
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mcmurtry86
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 16198
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| spr217 wrote: | "PFF's numbers are, to put it mildly, highly suspect. For myriad reasons. Not the least of which is the fact that they can't discern between man and zone coverage, and they don't really pay attention to assignments. They just charge catches to the nearest defender, regardless of whether it was his job to cover the guy that made the catch."
How do you have such a detailed understanding of their methodology, much less what a player's assignment is on a particular play?
"He allowed nothing to Mike Wallace [i.e. one of the most dangerous receivers in the league] and only 2 or 3 catches to everyone else."
If he doesn't deserve to be penalized for giving up plays that were not his responsibility in zone, nor should he be credited with 'shutting down' Mike Wallace. Please be consistent. More importantly, our entire game plan revolved around containing Wallace and not giving up the big play. McCourty gave Wallace a huge cushion and had help on every down, a primary reason why Heath Miller tore us apart down the seam. When your outside guys cannot be relied upon to play any man/have to be given a ton of help in zone, it opens up other parts of the field.
"By my count, a total of 15 times against the Raiders, Jets, Cowboys and Steelers."
So he was targeted 43 times in the first three games? Please work out the math before you manufacture statistics. I also wasn't aware that you were given a copy of the coach's tape to help with your analysis.
"Belichick, as we've all seen, isn't afraid to bench or cut players who under-perform, regardless of when they were drafted"
First round picks are given much more time and opportunity to succeed. Maroney and Merriweather were both traded/cut in the final year of their contracts after being given a MILLION chances to improve their performance and attitude. I think Belichick develops crushes on players whom he feels display a strong work ethic/intelligence/scrappiness (eg Ninkovitch) etc. He's clearly fond of McCourty, a captain in only his second year.
Considering the fact that he's given up a lot of plays (regardless of how you quantify it) this season, made no significant plays in coverage, has displayed poor tackling, and is the number one corner on a team that ranks dead last in the league in pass defense, I don't feel like it's ridiculous to consider the possibility that his rookie season was an anomaly. |
This wall of text would have been easier to read had you used the quote function. |
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Tzimisce
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 40627
Location: Slowly coming to terms with the inevitable
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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He was outstanding tonight. Only gave up one catch, and that was a play where he held coverage for a good 5-6 seconds but got hung out to dry by the lack of pass rush. Played man coverage for a good chunk of the game, too, and lined up everywhere on the field, not just LCB.
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GoldenboyGB
Joined: 05 Apr 2007
Posts: 10451
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Tzimisce wrote: | | He was outstanding tonight. Only gave up one catch, and that was a play where he held coverage for a good 5-6 seconds but got hung out to dry by the lack of pass rush. Played man coverage for a good chunk of the game, too, and lined up everywhere on the field, not just LCB. |
Yes sir.
He played quite well this week and got his hands on the ball at one play. He is slowly regaining his step.
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