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GmenSeattle


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:59 pm    Post subject: Eli's contract Reply with quote

http://www.giants101.com/2015/03/23/new-york-giants-eli-manning-not-close-on-new-contract-report/

Quote:
According to the sources, the Giants had been keeping a close eye on the contract extension talks between the Pittsburgh Steelers and quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, who had only one year left on his contract before he agreed to a five-year, $99 million deal last week. The Giants believe Manning will ask for more than Roethlisberger got, and at this point they don't appear ready to make that kind of commitment.


Personally I was hoping Eli would go the route of Tom Brady and take less money to ensure the team could be competitive for years to come. I don't want Eli for $20+mil/year
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minutemancl


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Next year is make or break. If we show promise, we'll keep Eli around. If not, I think we let him go sign with a contender that is a QB away like Buffalo, Arizona, or Houston and roll with Nassib as we start our rebuild.
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aceinthehouse wrote:
But why not maintain that dominance? You guys were there...

Let me give you my personal opinion, on what I think has happened.
It all started with the release of the coke machine in Brandon Jacobs.
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dkebones


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Location: Giants fan in the Seahawk's backyard...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

listen, i don't ever want to begrudge any of these guys their money, but long-tenured QBs who have already played out one $100M contract don't belong in those conversations.

if Eli really wants to be legendary, stop playing games and take a page out of the book of a guy who's better than you are (even though you've beaten him twice for SBs), in Brady. i wouldn't even care in the least if he put contingencies on it that JR has to go spend the savings on building a kick @ss offensive line to finish his career out with!
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Kodaraw


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you trade a franchised player? Worst case would be to franchise Eli if he wants this insane amount, and trade him to the Browns for a couple picks.
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GMENNATION


Joined: 09 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think there is too much to this report hoenstly. I really hate to over simplify here but I truly believe only one of two things will happen here:

1. Giants have a good year, Coughlin and Reese are retained and Eli re-signs.

2. Giants have another average to below average year, Coughlin and Reese are axed and Eli parts ways with the Giants.

I think we all know this is the make or break year for Coughlin and Reese. Ownership has said it and three years of bad play will be too much to overcome. A new regime will have an opportunity to bring in the QB they want.

If things go well this season, Coughlin and Reese are back and they will keep their guy. No reason to be cheap and bring in a new QB. Things would be trending upward and Eli has some good years left. The Giants are an intelligent FO and will know that Eli gives them their best chance to win. If he wins, you pay the man.
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mlv


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two thoughts:

1) Eli's agent is Tom Condon. Tom Condon isn't in the business of doing favors for football organizations. He's going to squeeze as much money as he can out of John Mara's pockets.

2) Tom Brady's wife is the breadwinner between the two of them, by a good margin. It is very easy for Tom Brady to play for a few million dollars less per year when his wife is worth nine figures. I very much doubt he'd be willing to take these discounts if he married Abby McGrew instead of Gisele Bundchen. I don't give Brady credit for taking these discounts, and I certainly don't blame Eli/Ben/insert name of franchise QB who seek top dollar.
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Colsrob wrote:
Wow. You really should back off of the Eli love. If anything, Eli is a negative impact.
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dkebones


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mlv wrote:
Two thoughts:

1) Eli's agent is Tom Condon. Tom Condon isn't in the business of doing favors for football organizations. He's going to squeeze as much money as he can out of John Mara's pockets.

2) Tom Brady's wife is the breadwinner between the two of them, by a good margin. It is very easy for Tom Brady to play for a few million dollars less per year when his wife is worth nine figures. I very much doubt he'd be willing to take these discounts if he married Abby McGrew instead of Gisele Bundchen. I don't give Brady credit for taking these discounts, and I certainly don't blame Eli/Ben/insert name of franchise QB who seek top dollar.


its not about blaming them. but its hard to argue that Eli/Ben/Flacco, etc aren't in a different situation than a (e.g.) defensive lineman signing a 3 yr/$15M deal knowing that it is likely his "only" payday of his career.

Ben has made $102M. Eli has made $150M since his career started.

I'll say it again. $150M.

Again, not begrudging anyone their money, but don't tell me that those guys aren't in a different situation than 99.9% of the rest of the NFL players that lace up their cleats.
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njLawman5016


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want Eli to stay and I would love for him to "do the right thing" and take a smaller contract for the good of the team.

I know the money we are talking is unrealistic for us to discuss.

But,

If I was able to negotiate (and market rate for my services is) 200,000 a year from my employer for my benefit.. no one would begrudge me....I do not think any of us would take 150,000 or 140,000 with the intention of putting the money back into the company to make it better.... Every one of us would want 200,000 if that was market rate for our services.

I do not like it more than anyone else, but (1) point about Gselle making more money is valid- Money has less impact to that family (2) cannot expect anyone to do it
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Crickett


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad to see this shift is finally happened. For the past few years I've been seeing the ideology of "If you have a franchise quarterback, you have to pay him whatever he wants".

No you don't Baltimore did that and they barely made the playoffs since. Chicago did that and they've regretted it since. As badly as McCown did in Tampa, I'm betting the Bears wish they could have a mulligan on that one. Right now they wish they could start over instead of being hamstrung with Cutler. There have been one, maybe two season where an argument could be made that Eli was better than Ben. 2013 and 2014 were not those seasons. He's not worth doing to your franchise what the Bears did to theirs. [/i]
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minutemancl


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crickett wrote:
I'm glad to see this shift is finally happened. For the past few years I've been seeing the ideology of "If you have a franchise quarterback, you have to pay him whatever he wants".

No you don't Baltimore did that and they barely made the playoffs since. Chicago did that and they've regretted it since. As badly as McCown did in Tampa, I'm betting the Bears wish they could have a mulligan on that one. Right now they wish they could start over instead of being hamstrung with Cutler. There have been one, maybe two season where an argument could be made that Eli was better than Ben. 2013 and 2014 were not those seasons. He's not worth doing to your franchise what the Bears did to theirs. [/i]


There are 2 HUGE differences between Eli and those guys you named. I'll wait and see if you can figure them out.
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aceinthehouse wrote:
But why not maintain that dominance? You guys were there...

Let me give you my personal opinion, on what I think has happened.
It all started with the release of the coke machine in Brandon Jacobs.
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Crickett


Joined: 27 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

minutemancl wrote:
Crickett wrote:
I'm glad to see this shift is finally happened. For the past few years I've been seeing the ideology of "If you have a franchise quarterback, you have to pay him whatever he wants".

No you don't Baltimore did that and they barely made the playoffs since. Chicago did that and they've regretted it since. As badly as McCown did in Tampa, I'm betting the Bears wish they could have a mulligan on that one. Right now they wish they could start over instead of being hamstrung with Cutler. There have been one, maybe two season where an argument could be made that Eli was better than Ben. 2013 and 2014 were not those seasons. He's not worth doing to your franchise what the Bears did to theirs. [/i]


There are 2 HUGE differences between Eli and those guys you named. I'll wait and see if you can figure them out.



It's not as big of a difference as your think.



The Giants have paid Eli plenty for his Superbowl rings. The question is if do you really think he can deliver a third one at this stage of his career?
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GmenSeattle


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crickett wrote:
minutemancl wrote:
Crickett wrote:
I'm glad to see this shift is finally happened. For the past few years I've been seeing the ideology of "If you have a franchise quarterback, you have to pay him whatever he wants".

No you don't Baltimore did that and they barely made the playoffs since. Chicago did that and they've regretted it since. As badly as McCown did in Tampa, I'm betting the Bears wish they could have a mulligan on that one. Right now they wish they could start over instead of being hamstrung with Cutler. There have been one, maybe two season where an argument could be made that Eli was better than Ben. 2013 and 2014 were not those seasons. He's not worth doing to your franchise what the Bears did to theirs. [/i]


There are 2 HUGE differences between Eli and those guys you named. I'll wait and see if you can figure them out.



It's not as big of a difference as your think.



The Giants have paid Eli plenty for his Superbowl rings. The question is if do you really think he can deliver a third one at this stage of his career?


Sure he can, did you watch last year? Razz The Giants didn't miss the playoffs because of Eli.
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GmenSeattle


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mlv wrote:

2) Tom Brady's wife is the breadwinner between the two of them, by a good margin. It is very easy for Tom Brady to play for a few million dollars less per year when his wife is worth nine figures. I very much doubt he'd be willing to take these discounts if he married Abby McGrew instead of Gisele Bundchen. I don't give Brady credit for taking these discounts, and I certainly don't blame Eli/Ben/insert name of franchise QB who seek top dollar.


I really don't care. Eli is set for life regardless of how much his next contract pays him. At this point I would think he'd be caring about his legacy more than his bank account. Given how competitive Tom is I would think that how much his wife makes isn't making an impact on how much he agrees to take in a contract. He wants to be known as the best QB in the history of the game.
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Crickett


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GmenSeattle wrote:
Crickett wrote:
minutemancl wrote:
Crickett wrote:
I'm glad to see this shift is finally happened. For the past few years I've been seeing the ideology of "If you have a franchise quarterback, you have to pay him whatever he wants".

No you don't Baltimore did that and they barely made the playoffs since. Chicago did that and they've regretted it since. As badly as McCown did in Tampa, I'm betting the Bears wish they could have a mulligan on that one. Right now they wish they could start over instead of being hamstrung with Cutler. There have been one, maybe two season where an argument could be made that Eli was better than Ben. 2013 and 2014 were not those seasons. He's not worth doing to your franchise what the Bears did to theirs. [/i]


There are 2 HUGE differences between Eli and those guys you named. I'll wait and see if you can figure them out.



It's not as big of a difference as your think.



The Giants have paid Eli plenty for his Superbowl rings. The question is if do you really think he can deliver a third one at this stage of his career?


Sure he can, did you watch last year? Razz The Giants didn't miss the playoffs because of Eli.


They didn't make the playoffs because of Eli either. Ben Roethlisberger is the second highest paid QB in the league, barely behind Rodgers. I'm not saying Eli Manning is a bad quarterback; but he's certainly not top three and it seems very much like he wants to be paid like he is. At age 34, he has far more productive days at QB behind him than in front of him.
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Kodaraw


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crickett wrote:
GmenSeattle wrote:
Crickett wrote:
minutemancl wrote:
Crickett wrote:
I'm glad to see this shift is finally happened. For the past few years I've been seeing the ideology of "If you have a franchise quarterback, you have to pay him whatever he wants".

No you don't Baltimore did that and they barely made the playoffs since. Chicago did that and they've regretted it since. As badly as McCown did in Tampa, I'm betting the Bears wish they could have a mulligan on that one. Right now they wish they could start over instead of being hamstrung with Cutler. There have been one, maybe two season where an argument could be made that Eli was better than Ben. 2013 and 2014 were not those seasons. He's not worth doing to your franchise what the Bears did to theirs. [/i]


There are 2 HUGE differences between Eli and those guys you named. I'll wait and see if you can figure them out.



It's not as big of a difference as your think.



The Giants have paid Eli plenty for his Superbowl rings. The question is if do you really think he can deliver a third one at this stage of his career?


Sure he can, did you watch last year? Razz The Giants didn't miss the playoffs because of Eli.


They didn't make the playoffs because of Eli either. Ben Roethlisberger is the second highest paid QB in the league, barely behind Rodgers. I'm not saying Eli Manning is a bad quarterback; but he's certainly not top three and it seems very much like he wants to be paid like he is. At age 34, he has far more productive days at QB behind him than in front of him.


He may not be top 3, but I would argue he's top 6. Yes, he throws a lot of interceptions, but you know what else. He makes a lot of head scratching miraculous throws. He takes risks. Sometimes he's careless. He's a bit of a gunslinger. I accept that. I know that he will throw ~20 interceptions a year. We had a terribad defense. Not just bad. Terribly bad.
There were probably 3-4 games that the defense just dropped, and 3-4 more that if the defense played a little better we could have won. We gave Tony Romo enough time in the pocket to have a child on a game winning drive. Blake Bortles led a game winning drive. Thats by no means Eli.
His only bad game last year was against the Niners. You take away that, he throws 9 interceptions in 15 games.
Eli can take us back. I have faith in that. He does however, need a defense that wants to win. Our offense will be stout.

I think we should front load his contract. That way in 3-4 years when it is time to extend OBJ, we don't have a 25M cap hit to worry about. I know a lot of people will be against that. But, we have a lot of cap room next year. It will also make him easier to trade if we decide to move on because his cap hit will be easier to manage.
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