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Bigbluefan80s Mock offseason update 2/8
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bigbluefan80


Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 2498
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:45 pm    Post subject: Bigbluefan80s Mock offseason update 2/8 Reply with quote

BIG CHANGES:

Head Coach: Tom Coughlin
Off. Coordinator : Ben McAdoo
Def. Coodinator : Steve Spagnolo
Special Teams : Anyone not named Tom Quinn

Cut / Let Go / Signed to another team:

DE Mathias Kiwanuka, DT Cullen Jenkins, DT Markus Kuhn, S Stevie Brown, S Antrel Rolle, S Quintin Demps, LB Mark Herzlich, LB Spencer Paysinger, CB Chykie Brown, CB Jayron Hosley, RB Peyton Hillis, OG John Jerry, OL James Brewer, OL Dallas Reynolds, OL JD Walton, WR Jerrel Jernigan, WR Kevin Ogletree

Extensions made:
QB Eli Manning - 3 yr deal

Resign:
DE Jason Pierre-Paul, TE Dan Fells, TE Larry Donnell, FB Henry Hynoski, CB Chandler Fenner, CB Zack Bowman, CB Walter Thurmond III, OL Adam Snyder, DE Kerry Wynn, OLB Jacquian Williams, CB Mike Harris, RB Orleans Darkwa

FA signings :
1- S Rahim Moore 4 yr deal
2- OG Orlando Franklin 4 yr deal
3- OLB Bruce Carter 3 yr deal


2015 NFL Draft Class : ***We have the 9th pick overall***

1- DT Danny Shelton / Washington

The more I think about it the more I truly love this pick. With how much I see us getting screwed out of getting any of the top DEs' at pick #9.. Shelton would be an ideal route to go. To imagine him and Hankins up front would be insane. When was the last time we had 2 imposing DTs on our squad? We always remember the DEs.. but 2 running stuffing tackles? I love this concept. I could totally see this happening.

2- LB Denzel Perryman / Miami

Would love to see a guy like Dawson or Orchard at this spot but both of their draft status' will be elevated in the next few weeks. Perryman has a big chance of being available at this spot and I cant see us letting him slip by.

3- S Anthony Harris / Virginia

Hard hitting safety is something we could use. Definitly gonna need another safety prospect going into next season. Trel and couple other guys on our squad seem ready to pack their bags.

4- OT Tyrus Thompson / Oklahoma

Depth along the oline. How badly we need that.

5- TE Jeff Heuerman / Ohio St.

We need a guy whom can still challenge Donnell and Fells for a spot. I'm a Buckeyes fan and this kid really should get a look in the 5th round.

6- RB Kevin Parks / Virginia

Change of pace back whom we could get a shot at in round 6. Would be a good compliment to Willams and Jennings.

7- OG John Miller / Louisville

Doesn't hurt to have a developmental guy whom could be depth for us along our oline.

7- ILB Zach Vigil / Utah State

Why not?


2015 Projected Lineup:

Offence:

QB - Manning, Nassib
RB - Jennings, Williams, Darkwa, Parks
FB - Hynoski
WR - Beckham Jr., Cruz, Randle, Parker, Washington
OL - Beatty, Franklin, Richburg, Schwartz, Pugh, Snyder,Thompson,Miller
TE - Donnell, Fells, Heuerman

Defence:

DE: JPP, Ayers, Moore, Wynn,
DT: Hankins, Patterson, Bromley, Shelton
OLB: Kennard, McClain, Williams, Carter, Perryman
ILB: Beason, Vigil
S: Moore, Berhe, Taylor, Harris
CB: Amukamara, DRC, Thurmond III, Bowman, McBride, Harris, Fenner

Special Teams:

LS: DeOssie
K: Brown
P: Weatherford

I no I'm 2 men shy on the count here, but I figure well have a few PS guys promoted or rookie FA tryouts.


Last edited by bigbluefan80 on Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:30 am; edited 13 times in total
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minutemancl


Joined: 06 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like it. Bowles is my dream HC but with the 3 year extension he just signed with Arizona, it is highly unlikely he is going anywhere soon. Not a fan of Spags coming back. Although his blitz packages would be welcome with open arms, he benefited a lot from a really great front 4. We don't have that right now.

As for the draft, I'd rather grab Oakman than Calhoun in the first if we trade back. The only pick I really like is Ameer Abdullah. I love all the FA signings though except for Delmas. He's nothing but a name.
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aceinthehouse wrote:
But why not maintain that dominance? You guys were there...

Let me give you my personal opinion, on what I think has happened.
It all started with the release of the coke machine in Brandon Jacobs.
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bigbluefan80


Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 2498
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

minutemancl wrote:
I like it. Bowles is my dream HC but with the 3 year extension he just signed with Arizona, it is highly unlikely he is going anywhere soon. Not a fan of Spags coming back. Although his blitz packages would be welcome with open arms, he benefited a lot from a really great front 4. We don't have that right now.

As for the draft, I'd rather grab Oakman than Calhoun in the first if we trade back. The only pick I really like is Ameer Abdullah. I love all the FA signings though except for Delmas. He's nothing but a name.


Ya my mindset is that we trade down and don't have the ability to get Oakman. As hed be taken within that 6-11 range. Didn't no about Bowles extension. Ill re think with that. I just watched the Jets / Dolphins game, Delmas still looks to be a viable safety and a hard hitter.
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HakeemTheDream


Joined: 15 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got quite a lot wrong with this, but there are also some things I like. I guess I might as well go in order from the start of your post:

First of all, Bill Cowher isn't going to be coaching in the NFL anymore. I know he was holding out for the Giants opening, but he's been out of the league since 2006. The game has passed him by. In fact, it's probably lapped him two or three times by now. He's on the record saying he likes his stress-free job at CBS and he's also good friends with Coughlin. This isn't happening. I'm 100000% sure of it.

I have mixed feelings about Spags. I'll always remember his great run here, but he has been abysmal everywhere else since he left after 2008. With the rumors from players on the Saints stating how he was a control freak who wouldn't listen to his players and refused to adjust, I'm very weary about him. I think it'd be better to find a new, up-and-coming defensive coordinator with a fresh mind. I do think the Giants should look for an aggressive coordinator though, because I am so sick of the bend-but-don't-break defense that Fewell and Tim Lewis have run for the Giants for the majority of the last decade.

Why would you cut Cooper Taylor? He's still on his rookie deal so he's cheap and he hasn't gotten a chance yet. He was also our best safety in preseason before he got hurt. There's no point in cutting him. At least bring him to camp. I personally would like to bring back Jacquian Williams, John Jerry, and Preston Parker for depth. The Giants likely can bring them back for the minimum. Josh Brown has been great for us. I'd like to see Orleans Darkwa have a chance in camp. There's no point in not giving him a shot. Pretty much everyone else you mentioned can go, though.

Eli Manning and Antrel Rolle CANNOT be restructured. Eli would have to be extended because he's going to be on the last year of his deal next year. You can't move money around without having another year to move it to. It's either paycut or extension for Eli. And Rolle is a free agent when the season ends. Can't restructure a guy not under contract.

Using the franchise tag on JPP is probably the last thing that happens with him and the team. The franchise tag for a DE is close to $15m. That'd be most of the cap space the Giants have. Which gets me to another thing: you're numbers are very unrealistic. Here's a great resource to use to try to get accurate cap numbers -> http://overthecap.com/calculator/new-york-giants/ . You can cut, restructure, extend, etc. For free agents you want to sign, I just usually use one of the 'Pending Free Agents' and mark down who I used so that I can keep track. Once you get to understanding the cap figures, then these mock offseasons become much more realistic (and fun, IMO).

I like most of the guys you re-signed, other than Ogletree and Chykie Brown. Those guys have proven they aren't productive in the NFL. No use in holding onto dead weight.

Sign me up for all of the free agents you brought in. It's unrealistic to expect all of them and JPP with the franchise tag, but I like the talent you want to bring in.

Good draft, although I think a few of the people you have selected will probably go a round or two higher. Those players being Abdullah, Williams, and Dorsett. Dorsett might run a 4.2 forty. Someone's gonna take a flyer on him in the 3rd or 4th round. He's not worth that, but talent like his gets overdrafted (I'm a Canes fan, he's not that impressive). LOVE the Perryman and Prewitt picks. I'd prefer Oakman over Calhoun, like someone else mentioned before me.

Overall, I think you did a good job. Don't take any of my comments as insults, look at them as constructive criticism. I plan on doing one of these myself sometime soon, so feel free to do the same to me.
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Shockey1979


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've teetered back and forth on Cowher. In a way I think he would be a good fit but also in a way I agree the game has probably passed him by. We need a coach who understands the modern game. Who can gameplan against the modern offenses like the read option, wildcat, pistol, mobile QB's etc. The Giants just seem baffled whenever they play one of those types of offenses. Our best showing always come against traditional offenses with statue QB's. Those are becoming very rare these days. I don't exactly know who I'd want at HC right now. But I think I am off the Cowher train. It would just be 3 more years of Coughlin because they are cut from the same cloth.
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Acgott


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the Giants get Cowher, which I don't think will happen at all, he will want his own staff, not former Giants staff.

That would probably mean Russ Grimm or Mike Mularkey as OC and Ray Horton or even Tim Lewis as DC
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NYGCRUZ80


Joined: 02 Jan 2014
Posts: 673
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might as well start my mock OS too

Idk if I want Cowher or not bc all good coaches burn out at some point and I believe Cowher is burnt out already, can't see us going far with him
Why doesn't everyone wanna get rid of Jernigan but keep Ogletree? I would much rather keep Jernigan over Ogletree at this point.
No way we tag JPP, too much money to do that
I like the FAs signings except Weatherspoon, way too many injury problems
No complaints about the draft, like it all except I don't think Josh Brown is going anywhere, he should be our starting K next year barring any type of injury
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Shockey1979


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Acgott wrote:
If the Giants get Cowher, which I don't think will happen at all, he will want his own staff, not former Giants staff.


I think you could say that about 99% of the coaches they would want to hire. If the front offense is adament about keeping Macadoo they will have to make it a prerequisite for the incoming coach that he must take him on as OC. Which will probably screen out quite a few candidates. I like Macadoo and I hope they find a way to keep him but I don't feel like he is so valuable it should limit our ability to put the right head coach in place for this team.

Acgott wrote:
or even Tim Lewis as DC


How dare you speak these vile words Mad
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Acgott


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:
Acgott wrote:
If the Giants get Cowher, which I don't think will happen at all, he will want his own staff, not former Giants staff.


I think you could say that about 99% of the coaches they would want to hire. If the front offense is adament about keeping Macadoo they will have to make it a prerequisite for the incoming coach that he must take him on as OC. Which will probably screen out quite a few candidates. I like Macadoo and I hope they find a way to keep him but I don't feel like he is so valuable it should limit our ability to put the right head coach in place for this team.

Acgott wrote:
or even Tim Lewis as DC


How dare you speak these vile words Mad

Which is why I wanted to keep Coughlin for another year to give McAdoo more of a tryout. Unfortunately, the Giants are going to end up worse than I imagined a month or two ago.

McAdoo has been good, but nothing world beating. I would have to go through the #'s to see the win percentage of current coaches that didn't get to pick their complete staff. If he was hired no doubt in my mind he would have total control of his staff. He wouldn't be hired if he didn't

I predicted the Cowher staff off of his previous 5 staffs in which the current coach is not a current HC, OC, or DC. Unfortunately a likely candidate is Tim Lewis
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minutemancl


Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 12485
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:
Acgott wrote:
If the Giants get Cowher, which I don't think will happen at all, he will want his own staff, not former Giants staff.


I think you could say that about 99% of the coaches they would want to hire. If the front offense is adament about keeping Macadoo they will have to make it a prerequisite for the incoming coach that he must take him on as OC. Which will probably screen out quite a few candidates. I like Macadoo and I hope they find a way to keep him but I don't feel like he is so valuable it should limit our ability to put the right head coach in place for this team.

Acgott wrote:
or even Tim Lewis as DC


How dare you speak these vile words Mad


Mcadoo is valuable if we plan on keeping Eli. Might as well just start a rookie if you're going to make him learn another new offense. That's why in my mock offseason I have us promoting him to HC then letting him have a say in who he brings in as OC and DC. Honestly our best option IMO. Keeping Coughlin around at this point is saying that you're ok with how the team is trending.
_________________
aceinthehouse wrote:
But why not maintain that dominance? You guys were there...

Let me give you my personal opinion, on what I think has happened.
It all started with the release of the coke machine in Brandon Jacobs.
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Shockey1979


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

minutemancl wrote:
Mcadoo is valuable if we plan on keeping Eli.


I still feel like Nassib has the physical skills to run Macadoo's offense just as good or better then Eli. Especially the moving pocket plays he loves to run.
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minutemancl


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:
minutemancl wrote:
Mcadoo is valuable if we plan on keeping Eli.


I still feel like Nassib has the physical skills to run Macadoo's offense just as good or better then Eli. Especially the moving pocket plays he loves to run.


I think we are going to get into a "devil you know is better than the one you don't" situation this offseason/next year.
_________________
aceinthehouse wrote:
But why not maintain that dominance? You guys were there...

Let me give you my personal opinion, on what I think has happened.
It all started with the release of the coke machine in Brandon Jacobs.
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Acgott


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

minutemancl wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
Acgott wrote:
If the Giants get Cowher, which I don't think will happen at all, he will want his own staff, not former Giants staff.


I think you could say that about 99% of the coaches they would want to hire. If the front offense is adament about keeping Macadoo they will have to make it a prerequisite for the incoming coach that he must take him on as OC. Which will probably screen out quite a few candidates. I like Macadoo and I hope they find a way to keep him but I don't feel like he is so valuable it should limit our ability to put the right head coach in place for this team.

Acgott wrote:
or even Tim Lewis as DC


How dare you speak these vile words Mad


Mcadoo is valuable if we plan on keeping Eli. Might as well just start a rookie if you're going to make him learn another new offense. That's why in my mock offseason I have us promoting him to HC then letting him have a say in who he brings in as OC and DC. Honestly our best option IMO. Keeping Coughlin around at this point is saying that you're ok with how the team is trending.

What makes McAdoo valuable? There was nothing I saw this year that made me feel comfortable that he could be a head coach or not. We don't have enough information on him.

Mara will have to make the decision to see if McAdoo should be promoted or terminated.

We cannot keep Eli at his current salary. We cannot rebuild with that. We either need to cut him or we need to extend him.

Eli is a 34 year old QB. He has a few years left before he will be retired. The decision we make on the new HC and QB decides the next 10 years, not the next 3 years.

Chances are we won't be competing for a Superbowl next year. We must be prepared for the long term and not just the short term.

Keeping Coughlin for another year would have allowed us to evaluate both McAdoo and Eli for another year, though that seems unrealistic with what our record will be.

I truthfully don't know what the Giants should do.
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bigbluefan80


Joined: 13 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HakeemTheDream wrote:
I got quite a lot wrong with this, but there are also some things I like. I guess I might as well go in order from the start of your post:

First of all, Bill Cowher isn't going to be coaching in the NFL anymore. I know he was holding out for the Giants opening, but he's been out of the league since 2006. The game has passed him by. In fact, it's probably lapped him two or three times by now. He's on the record saying he likes his stress-free job at CBS and he's also good friends with Coughlin. This isn't happening. I'm 100000% sure of it.

I have mixed feelings about Spags. I'll always remember his great run here, but he has been abysmal everywhere else since he left after 2008. With the rumors from players on the Saints stating how he was a control freak who wouldn't listen to his players and refused to adjust, I'm very weary about him. I think it'd be better to find a new, up-and-coming defensive coordinator with a fresh mind. I do think the Giants should look for an aggressive coordinator though, because I am so sick of the bend-but-don't-break defense that Fewell and Tim Lewis have run for the Giants for the majority of the last decade.

Why would you cut Cooper Taylor? He's still on his rookie deal so he's cheap and he hasn't gotten a chance yet. He was also our best safety in preseason before he got hurt. There's no point in cutting him. At least bring him to camp. I personally would like to bring back Jacquian Williams, John Jerry, and Preston Parker for depth. The Giants likely can bring them back for the minimum. Josh Brown has been great for us. I'd like to see Orleans Darkwa have a chance in camp. There's no point in not giving him a shot. Pretty much everyone else you mentioned can go, though.

Eli Manning and Antrel Rolle CANNOT be restructured. Eli would have to be extended because he's going to be on the last year of his deal next year. You can't move money around without having another year to move it to. It's either paycut or extension for Eli. And Rolle is a free agent when the season ends. Can't restructure a guy not under contract.

Using the franchise tag on JPP is probably the last thing that happens with him and the team. The franchise tag for a DE is close to $15m. That'd be most of the cap space the Giants have. Which gets me to another thing: you're numbers are very unrealistic. Here's a great resource to use to try to get accurate cap numbers -> http://overthecap.com/calculator/new-york-giants/ . You can cut, restructure, extend, etc. For free agents you want to sign, I just usually use one of the 'Pending Free Agents' and mark down who I used so that I can keep track. Once you get to understanding the cap figures, then these mock offseasons become much more realistic (and fun, IMO).

I like most of the guys you re-signed, other than Ogletree and Chykie Brown. Those guys have proven they aren't productive in the NFL. No use in holding onto dead weight.

Sign me up for all of the free agents you brought in. It's unrealistic to expect all of them and JPP with the franchise tag, but I like the talent you want to bring in.

Good draft, although I think a few of the people you have selected will probably go a round or two higher. Those players being Abdullah, Williams, and Dorsett. Dorsett might run a 4.2 forty. Someone's gonna take a flyer on him in the 3rd or 4th round. He's not worth that, but talent like his gets overdrafted (I'm a Canes fan, he's not that impressive). LOVE the Perryman and Prewitt picks. I'd prefer Oakman over Calhoun, like someone else mentioned before me.

Overall, I think you did a good job. Don't take any of my comments as insults, look at them as constructive criticism. I plan on doing one of these myself sometime soon, so feel free to do the same to me.


Well if Bill Cowher doesn't want to coach its ok, I've got up a couple other men whom we should give a phone call to.

Cooper Taylor cant seem to stop getting hurt, that's why he's cut.

Jacquian I can see signing with another team. I just have a feeling someone will throw more money at him than we are willing to and he jumps on it.

Preston Parker hasn't shown me enough consistency. I like Ogletree over him because he recognizes blitzes from opposing defences and knows when to a run a slant to help out the QB. Chykie Brown has shown some decent ability in his time here so I think he's worth another look. Even as a depth signing I like him better than Jayron. Josh Brown just eh, bring in a guy for competition, never hurts. That's why I chose Hunnicutt as our final pick. John Jerry has been way to inconsistent for me to think we resign him. He was decent earlier in the season but he really has been getting abused in the last 3-4 games.

My mistake on the money situation, haven't really read up much on the financial logisitics of the NFL. I've been just starting to read up on it lately.
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bucsEST96


Joined: 22 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

minutemancl wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
minutemancl wrote:
Mcadoo is valuable if we plan on keeping Eli.


I still feel like Nassib has the physical skills to run Macadoo's offense just as good or better then Eli. Especially the moving pocket plays he loves to run.


I think we are going to get into a "devil you know is better than the one you don't" situation this offseason/next year.


I think so too. Fewell & Quinn get fired, Spags/or Rex brought in as DC and a new ST coach

This mock offseason isnt bad but the draft is awful, and idky ppl arent mocking us signing a new rb and def a wr. Jennings gotta go. Williams cant handle a load. We dont know how cruz comes back and randle should go
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