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The_Slamman


Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 13184
Location: Las Vegas, NV
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:
The_Slamman wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
The_Slamman wrote:

Which of course is countered by the fact that the Giants defense allowed less than 14 PPG on average over their last 6 games (2 regular season and 4 playoff games). In 2011, 2012, and even 2013, Romo has never had a defense that could actually help him out. It wasn't Eli playing his butt off to overcome a bad defense. It was the Giants defense playing its butt off to overcome Eli.


Which is easily countered with pointing out that in those last 6 games Eli threw 13 TD's with 2 picks averaged 300 yards a game and a 104 rating.


Bottom line... when the Giants defense was banged up and playing less than awesome, Eli led the Giants to under a .500 record in 2011. When the defense was healthy and played like the best defense in the NFL, the Giants won 6 in a row. As far as Eli's stats during those games when the defense led the giants, I understand why you are impressed. You're impressed because that year was a complete and total anomaly for Eli. Romo, on the other hand, put up nearly identical stats (if not better) to those stats 2 of the past 3 years (not just a six game stretch). Again, the difference is that Romo doesn't have the benefit of a great defense that can hold an opposing offense to an average of 14 PPG. Lots of QBs could win SBs if their offenses only have to score 21 points to win every playoff game.


Hmmn I don't recall this 6 game stretch including 4 playoff games in which Romo put up these equal stats. Please remind me.

In 2009 Romo had the "benefit" of a the #2 overall defense in the league with 15.6 PPG allowed and he didn't deliver a Lombardi...

Actually in overall defensive PPG since 2007...

Year Gmen Cowboys
2012 21.5 | 25.0
2011 25.0 | 21.7
2010 21.7 | 27.3
2009 26.7 | 15.6
2008 18.4 | 22.8
2007 21.9 | 20.3

Average: 22.53 | 22.11

Romo over the past 6 years has actually had a better defense then Eli in average PPG...


You are missing the point... The point is that Romo has never had a six game stretch in the regular season and playoffs where his defense held the opposing offense to 20 points or under EVERY SINGLE WEEK.

Let's look at the Giants' defensive performance during the playoff runs of 2007 and 2011...

2007

allowed 14 points to Bucs
allowed 17 points to Cowboys
allowed 20 points to Pack (would have lost but for missed FG)
allowed 14 points to Pats (would have lost but for miracle reception)

2011

allowed 0 points to Falcons
allowed 20 points to Pack
allowed 17 points to 49ers (would have lost but for 49ers awful special teams)
allowed 17 points to Pats (would have likely lost but for Wes Welker's drop)

In those 8 playoff games, Eli has never need to score more than 21 points to win any one game. Even then, he's had the benefit of missed FGs, miracle catches, muffed punts in OT, and horrendous drops.

The point is, again, that a lot of QBs can win playoff games when they only have to score 21 points to win every single game. Guess what, Romo has won every playoff game where his defense has held the opposing offense to 20 points or less too. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson can win SBs (like Eli) when their defenses hold opposing offenses to 20 points or less every week. The only difference is that the Bucs and Ravens defenses get the credit because their QBs didn't have the "Manning" name.
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Biggsam49


Joined: 05 Jul 2012
Posts: 823
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:


You are missing the point... The point is that Romo has never had a six game stretch in the regular season and playoffs where his defense held the opposing offense to 20 points or under EVERY SINGLE WEEK.



Laughing


The_Slamman wrote:


Let's look at the Giants' defensive performance during the playoff runs of 2007 and 2011...

2007

allowed 14 points to Bucs
allowed 17 points to Cowboys
allowed 20 points to Pack (would have lost but for missed FG)
allowed 14 points to Pats (would have lost but for miracle reception)

2011

allowed 0 points to Falcons
allowed 20 points to Pack
allowed 17 points to 49ers (would have lost but for 49ers awful special teams)
allowed 17 points to Pats (would have likely lost but for Wes Welker's drop)

In those 8 playoff games, Eli has never need to score more than 21 points to win any one game. Even then, he's had the benefit of missed FGs, miracle catches, muffed punts in OT, and horrendous drops.

The point is, again, that a lot of QBs can win playoff games when they only have to score 21 points to win every single game. Guess what, Romo has won every playoff game where his defense has held the opposing offense to 20 points or less too. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson can win SBs (like Eli) when their defenses hold opposing offenses to 20 points or less every week. The only difference is that the Bucs and Ravens defenses get the credit because their QBs didn't have the "Manning" name.




You're too funny. It's hard to take you serious with all the stupid bracketed remarks. Full Homer.

If this was Romo losing these games, you'd be pointing out the opposite. Look at the way you guys defended Romo for getting picked off at the end of the Denver game. The 07 SB woulda been all about how Steve Smith gave up that interception.

Or in 2011, you'd be crying about how the deep ball to Manningham didn't get called for an obvious PI, or how another drive ended on the BS holding call on Wilfork (as admitted by him.)
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Shockey1979


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 20312
Location: RI/MA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson can win SBs (like Eli) when their defenses hold opposing offenses to 20 points or less every week. The only difference is that the Bucs and Ravens defenses get the credit because their QBs didn't have the "Manning" name.



2002 Playoffs -Johnson (3 Games): 53/98 | 54% | 670yds | 5TD/3INT|6.84 YPA | 79.9 rating

2000 Playoffs - Dilfer (4 Games): 35/73 | 48% | 590 yds| 3TD/1INT | 8.08 YPA | 83.7 rating

2007 Playoffs Manning (4 Games): 72/119 | 60% | 854 yds | 6TD/ 1INT | 7.18 YPA| 95.7 rating

2011 Playoffs Manning (4 Games): 106/163 | 65 % | 1,219 yds | 9TD/1INT | 8.31 YPA| 103.3 rating

__________________________________________________________

2002 Bucs Defense
Regular Season:
12.3 PPG #1
252.8 YPG #1

Playoffs:
12.3 PPG
334 YPG


2000 Ravens Defense
Regular Season:
11.9 PPG #2
247.9 YPG #2

Playoffs:
5.75 PPG
225 YPG


2007 Giants Defense
Regular Season:
21.9 PPG #17
305 YPG #7

Playoffs:
16.2 PPG
286.2 YPG


2011 Giants Defense
Regular Season:
25 PPG #25
376.4 #27

Playoffs:
14 PPG
328 YPG
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GmenSeattle


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:
The_Slamman wrote:
Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson can win SBs (like Eli) when their defenses hold opposing offenses to 20 points or less every week. The only difference is that the Bucs and Ravens defenses get the credit because their QBs didn't have the "Manning" name.



2002 Playoffs -Johnson (3 Games): 53/98 | 54% | 670yds | 5TD/3INT|6.84 YPA | 79.9 rating

2000 Playoffs - Dilfer (4 Games): 35/73 | 48% | 590 yds| 3TD/1INT | 8.08 YPA | 83.7 rating

2007 Playoffs Manning (4 Games): 72/119 | 60% | 854 yds | 6TD/ 1INT | 7.18 YPA| 95.7 rating

2011 Playoffs Manning (4 Games): 106/163 | 65 % | 1,219 yds | 9TD/1INT | 8.31 YPA| 103.3 rating


To add a stat I looked up on the last page:

Romo's 80 QB rating in the playoffs.

That's in 4 games. So the vaunted Cowboys QB becomes Brad Johnson in the playoffs.
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Matts4313


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 36999
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of 12
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GmenSeattle wrote:
To add a stat I looked up on the last page:

Romo's 80 QB rating in the playoffs.

That's in 4 games. So the vaunted Cowboys QB becomes Brad Johnson in the playoffs.


Not that it matters at this point, and I am sure you will just take it as apologizing for Romo, but his QBR would likely be higher if crayton doesnt drop one and quit running on another TD in the game against you. It also didnt help that against the Vikings, we had like 6-8 sacks against us.


But whatever - your point is that Romo needs to elevate his game in the playoffs to be considered a great QB. I agree. Right now he is just a very good QB. Top 10, not top 5.
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GmenSeattle


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To try to put some spin on our awful season...if we were winning or even only having one loss against say...Denver we'd be getting written off to some extent due to just how bad our division is. Razz Yea there's not much good to take away so far this year Razz
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Shockey1979


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
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Location: RI/MA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:

But whatever - your point is that Romo needs to elevate his game in the playoffs to be considered a great QB. I agree. Right now he is just a very good QB. Top 10, not top 5.


He's fringe top 5. With Eli's decline this year I wouldn't be shocked if Romo hasn't hoped him for the #6 spot on most peoples list.

Rodgers
Brady
Peyton
Brees
Ben
Eli
Romo

That's how I have it right now. But if this level of play from Eli keeps up I can see him dropping off many a top 10 lists.

Romo is a stud and is seriously 1 good postseason run away from being top 4 imho
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The_Slamman


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Location: Las Vegas, NV
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GmenSeattle wrote:
To add a stat I looked up on the last page:

Romo's 80 QB rating in the playoffs.

That's in 4 games. So the vaunted Cowboys QB becomes Brad Johnson in the playoffs.


Considering that Eli's career QB rating is 81, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Romo becomes Eli Manning in the playoffs?

Does anyone else find it ironic that you guys are busting Romo's chops for a 4 game span of an 80 QB rating... When Eli's entire career is an 80 QB rating?
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Shockey1979


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:

Considering that Eli's career QB rating is 81, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Romo becomes Eli Manning in the playoffs?


Romo's play declines in the postseason and on those two Lombardi runs Eli's play elevated.


The_Slamman wrote:
Does anyone else find it ironic that you guys are busting Romo's chops for a 4 game span of an 80 QB rating... When Eli's entire career is an 80 QB rating?


"Regular season rating"...

When Romo puts up a nearly flawless 3-4 game postseason stretch then you can expect the "busting of chops" to cease. Until then no it's not ironic. It's a legitimate gripe against a stud regular season QB who's level of play drops off dramatically in the postseason.
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GmenSeattle


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ouch.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/9854353/dallas-cowboys-projected-31-million-salary-cap-2014
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GmenSeattle


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
Does anyone else find it ironic that you guys are busting Romo's chops for a 4 game span of an 80 QB rating... When Eli's entire career is an 80 QB rating?


Maybe Romo would've played in more than 4 playoff games if he didn't stink up the joint every time he played in them.
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GmenSeattle


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cowboys:


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Gmen4ev


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am so happy!

Stafford moved up today for me.
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Shockey1979


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazingly...we are only 2 games out of first place. With a bye then 3 home games to follow. 1 being the Boys.... interesting. Laughing
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Biggsam49


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah. Boys blow it and more dez pouting. Love it. Just waiting for one good explosion.
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