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The LBC


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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zappaz wrote:
Stone85 wrote:
Alcoholic may have been a little overboard but this guy has still made the decision to drive while drunk enough to fail a sobriety test atleast once, so you have to question his off field character and decision making. Also, most people who get DUIs are regular, if not obsessive, drinkers but that is an overgeneralized statement. Being kicked out of school for driving drunk is not an AJ thing but I don't know much else about his character.

What about Shareece Wright? His character concerns?

I know size isn't everything and I don't care that much about it but I really had no idea what you were talking about when you said 6'6 260 is skinny.


I'm not going to dig it up but there is an interview with the guy on youtube. He said that he really learned from the DUI and has since gotten married and had a kid which has changed his whole outlook on life. He was a young kid who was drinking then made a bad decision to drive afterwards and paid the price dearly by getting kicked out of school. Lets not forget this was 5 years ago as well.

Really hated to see him go to the Pats too..


Let's also not forget that practically no one had any issue with drafting Cameron Jordan with a 1st round pick... and he has a DUI on his record to. So should we hold Smith to a higher standard than Jordan because Phil Fullmer decided to kick him off the Tennessee roster for an offense that Jeff Tedford saw fit to only reprimand and suspend Jordan for?
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bzane


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boltstrikes wrote:
This is almost comical the experts rated Mouton a 4.7. which means we have the worst selection in the draft so far and by a pretty wide margin.


http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/05/03/draft-audibles

Comments from an NFL scout on Mouton, as reported on PFW.

Okay, they say he ran a 4.88 40, has character concerns, and carried a 6th-round grade.

Maybe. But, MAYBE, A.J. and the scouts saw something, SOMETHING, that everybody else missed.

There have been so-called "reaches" before in the NFL draft that had fans scratching their heads- but who panned out in the end.

Give the kid a chance! Maybe A.J. was right! Maybe, by the end of the season, fans will be growing Mutton-Chop sideburns on the Jonas Mouton bandwagon- and cheering "Mou-TON! Mou-TON! Mou-TON!"

It'll be interesting, anyway!
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bzane wrote:
Boltstrikes wrote:
This is almost comical the experts rated Mouton a 4.7. which means we have the worst selection in the draft so far and by a pretty wide margin.


http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/05/03/draft-audibles

Comments from an NFL scout on Mouton, as reported on PFW.

Okay, they say he ran a 4.88 40, has character concerns, and carried a 6th-round grade.

Maybe. But, MAYBE, A.J. and the scouts saw something, SOMETHING, that everybody else missed.

There have been so-called "reaches" before in the NFL draft that had fans scratching their heads- but who panned out in the end.

Give the kid a chance! Maybe A.J. was right! Maybe, by the end of the season, fans will be growing Mutton-Chop sideburns on the Jonas Mouton bandwagon- and cheering "Mou-TON! Mou-TON! Mou-TON!"

It'll be interesting, anyway!


I'll point out that I've read several places that his tape indicates that he plays faster than his timed speed. This is the player who led the Big 10 in tackles in 2010 (granted, take that with a grain of salt as he was a linebacker on a defense that couldn't get off the field to save its collective life last year - but better he be the guy making the tackles than whiffing on them).

And the "character issue" is that he punched Notre Dame center Eric Olsen (who I believe plays for the Donkeys now and is supposed to be competing for the starting center gig) - which I'm sure mgoblue44 can tell you was a situation that got blown completely out of proportion. In the wash of away from the play, Mouton was already on the ground and Olsen went to the ground to hit him from behind - which in itself was a little curious considering that Olsen hadn't been blocking Mouton to begin with but someone else. And the "punch" that was thrown was a quick, light uppercut that had as little impact as a swipe at another guy's facemask or the "punch" thrown at Big Ben by Seymour last year. It's not like we're talking LeGarette Blount in the "Boise Sucker Punch" incident. If anything, I'm giving him brownie points for having the good sense to smack a future Bronco.
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
bzane wrote:
Boltstrikes wrote:
This is almost comical the experts rated Mouton a 4.7. which means we have the worst selection in the draft so far and by a pretty wide margin.


http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/05/03/draft-audibles

Comments from an NFL scout on Mouton, as reported on PFW.

Okay, they say he ran a 4.88 40, has character concerns, and carried a 6th-round grade.

Maybe. But, MAYBE, A.J. and the scouts saw something, SOMETHING, that everybody else missed.

There have been so-called "reaches" before in the NFL draft that had fans scratching their heads- but who panned out in the end.

Give the kid a chance! Maybe A.J. was right! Maybe, by the end of the season, fans will be growing Mutton-Chop sideburns on the Jonas Mouton bandwagon- and cheering "Mou-TON! Mou-TON! Mou-TON!"

It'll be interesting, anyway!


I'll point out that I've read several places that his tape indicates that he plays faster than his timed speed. This is the player who led the Big 10 in tackles in 2010 (granted, take that with a grain of salt as he was a linebacker on a defense that couldn't get off the field to save its collective life last year - but better he be the guy making the tackles than whiffing on them).

And the "character issue" is that he punched Notre Dame center Eric Olsen (who I believe plays for the Donkeys now and is supposed to be competing for the starting center gig) - which I'm sure mgoblue44 can tell you was a situation that got blown completely out of proportion. In the wash of away from the play, Mouton was already on the ground and Olsen went to the ground to hit him from behind - which in itself was a little curious considering that Olsen hadn't been blocking Mouton to begin with but someone else. And the "punch" that was thrown was a quick, light uppercut that had as little impact as a swipe at another guy's facemask or the "punch" thrown at Big Ben by Seymour last year. It's not like we're talking LeGarette Blount in the "Boise Sucker Punch" incident. If anything, I'm giving him brownie points for having the good sense to smack a future Bronco.


It was the most blown out of proportion incidents I've seen for UM Football. Think of it like a retaliation penalty in hockey. Player A takes a shot at player B. Player B reacts with a shot back at Player A. In most cases, the referees only catch the shot given by Player B. From what I've seen from Mouton in his 4 years, that was the only real incident of bad conduct from him. Does he have character issues? I would say no.

Hes a great player who is very versatile and is great on what he was mainly drafted for: Special Teams! Something that cost us 3 wins, a playoff birth and possibly a SuperBowl run.
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2011 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mgoblue44 wrote:
It was the most blown out of proportion incidents I've seen for UM Football. Think of it like a retaliation penalty in hockey. Player A takes a shot at player B. Player B reacts with a shot back at Player A. In most cases, the referees only catch the shot given by Player B. From what I've seen from Mouton in his 4 years, that was the only real incident of bad conduct from him. Does he have character issues? I would say no.

Hes a great player who is very versatile and is great on what he was mainly drafted for: Special Teams! Something that cost us 3 wins, a playoff birth and possibly a SuperBowl run.


I saw the video of the punch, and it's a joke that anybody would make a big deal over it. He didn't even swing. It was more like he put his arm in the uppercut position, and stood up. If that's the only thing hanging over his head, I would definitely not call it character concerns.

Having ST abilities definitely helped him, but it's not the only reason he was drafted. There's already talk that he'll be given the chance to start next to Butler, and all the FA's will be shown the door. He was drafted to play ILB first, ST's second.
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Zappaz


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrDrew wrote:
There's already talk that he'll be given the chance to start next to Butler, and all the FA's will be shown the door. He was drafted to play ILB first, ST's second.



Oh please lord no... while I'm all for open competition for starting positions, having basically 2 rookies (1 coming off achillies injury) scares the hell out of me. Also the fact that there is little to no depth without bringing in FAs makes it even worse.

As for his punch, it doesnt make much of a difference for me. One harmless punch in an aggressive sport like football... pales in comparison to what they do to each other in the pile ups. Hell I was even wanting the Chargers to pickup Blount as a late rounder last year.
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Besides... punching a guy is fine when you're a Charger. We just don't tolerate headbutts. Wink
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Stone85


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bzane wrote:
Boltstrikes wrote:
This is almost comical the experts rated Mouton a 4.7. which means we have the worst selection in the draft so far and by a pretty wide margin.


http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/05/03/draft-audibles

Comments from an NFL scout on Mouton, as reported on PFW.

Okay, they say he ran a 4.88 40, has character concerns, and carried a 6th-round grade.

Maybe. But, MAYBE, A.J. and the scouts saw something, SOMETHING, that everybody else missed.

There have been so-called "reaches" before in the NFL draft that had fans scratching their heads- but who panned out in the end.

Give the kid a chance! Maybe A.J. was right! Maybe, by the end of the season, fans will be growing Mutton-Chop sideburns on the Jonas Mouton bandwagon- and cheering "Mou-TON! Mou-TON! Mou-TON!"

It'll be interesting, anyway!

Or maybe it's just a huge mistake. Mutton before Wilson, Sheppard, and Sturdivant? I just don't agree with this. No matter how great AJ thinks this is, you have to question his decision making, especially in the 2nd round.
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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stone85 wrote:
bzane wrote:
Boltstrikes wrote:
This is almost comical the experts rated Mouton a 4.7. which means we have the worst selection in the draft so far and by a pretty wide margin.


http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/05/03/draft-audibles

Comments from an NFL scout on Mouton, as reported on PFW.

Okay, they say he ran a 4.88 40, has character concerns, and carried a 6th-round grade.

Maybe. But, MAYBE, A.J. and the scouts saw something, SOMETHING, that everybody else missed.

There have been so-called "reaches" before in the NFL draft that had fans scratching their heads- but who panned out in the end.

Give the kid a chance! Maybe A.J. was right! Maybe, by the end of the season, fans will be growing Mutton-Chop sideburns on the Jonas Mouton bandwagon- and cheering "Mou-TON! Mou-TON! Mou-TON!"

It'll be interesting, anyway!

Or maybe it's just a huge mistake. Mutton before Wilson, Sheppard, and Sturdivant? I just don't agree with this. No matter how great AJ thinks this is, you have to question his decision making, especially in the 2nd round.


I'm not necessarily defending the Mouton selection, but...

Wilson is raw, raw, raw. The theme of this draft (as I pointed out to folks on Bolttalk) appears to be "pro ready" - and floor over ceiling. Everyone was caught up in Wilson's athleticism and size, but they were ignoring the fact that he had never had time to really make a particular position his own - some tried to sell that as versatility, but while versatility is a desirable pro trait, ambiguity is most certainly not.

Sheppard had everything you want except upper echelon upper body strength - literally, look at his frame, his core and arms are entirely underdeveloped. Because of his burst and quick pursuit his most desirable position to project to is actually 4-3 WILL in the most of Will Witherspoon (Spoon was a quality MIKE LB for the Rams when there, but he was a flat out elite WILL for the Panthers when there; Sheppard's a proportion of that similarity). Honestly, my biggest critique of Sheppard is that he comes out of LSU - now hear me out, Les Miles recruits the same type of player constantly and we've already seen that that type of player doesn't do a whole heck of a lot in our system.

Sturdivant - another 4-3 LB that we were forced to try and get ourselves to like because of the scarcity of 3-4 ILB's in this draft. Quan, on tape, struggles at the point of attack and in penetrating through the line - he isn't effective at all when taking on (interior) OL trying to block him. Also, he's got a dinger for a weed bust on his record - which it appears these sort of banned substance related pings were dropping guys down AJ's board like they had rocks tied to their ankles. Ultimately, in a 3-4 he's a chaser, not a thumper, and we were evidently in the hunt for a guy that could be a thumper.

Across the board, this was a pretty awful LB class as a lot of the underclassmen that could have declared didn't. That's how a raw as a all get out guy like Wilson starts getting low-1st/high-2nd round hype leading into the draft, when had Travis Lewis (or a healthy Bruce Carter) been there for head to head comparison he'd likely have been graded about where he was selected. Greg Jones, Casey Matthews, Nate Irving, Ross Homan... across the board, all mediocre at best fits for a 3-4. The best case for a pure fit for us that I could have made was Mason Foster - also valued as the best 4-3 SAM in this draft aside from maybe Akeem Ayers (who I do think we were targeting before he didn't fall to us) - but even he was too similar to Butler and our system has always preferred each ILB to bring a different dynamic to the table (Donnie/Godfrey, Coop/Whiffy, Coop/Burnett, etcetera).
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JammerHammer21


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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stone85 wrote:
bzane wrote:
Boltstrikes wrote:
This is almost comical the experts rated Mouton a 4.7. which means we have the worst selection in the draft so far and by a pretty wide margin.


http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/05/03/draft-audibles

Comments from an NFL scout on Mouton, as reported on PFW.

Okay, they say he ran a 4.88 40, has character concerns, and carried a 6th-round grade.

Maybe. But, MAYBE, A.J. and the scouts saw something, SOMETHING, that everybody else missed.

There have been so-called "reaches" before in the NFL draft that had fans scratching their heads- but who panned out in the end.

Give the kid a chance! Maybe A.J. was right! Maybe, by the end of the season, fans will be growing Mutton-Chop sideburns on the Jonas Mouton bandwagon- and cheering "Mou-TON! Mou-TON! Mou-TON!"

It'll be interesting, anyway!

Or maybe it's just a huge mistake. Mutton before Wilson, Sheppard, and Sturdivant? I just don't agree with this. No matter how great AJ thinks this is, you have to question his decision making, especially in the 2nd round.


LOL Stone. Give it a rest. Wonder why Sturdivant went 6th round? Sheppard is a run stopper and awful in coverage. Wilson is raw and is not an ILB.
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JammerHammer21 wrote:
Stone85 wrote:
bzane wrote:
Boltstrikes wrote:
This is almost comical the experts rated Mouton a 4.7. which means we have the worst selection in the draft so far and by a pretty wide margin.


http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/05/03/draft-audibles

Comments from an NFL scout on Mouton, as reported on PFW.

Okay, they say he ran a 4.88 40, has character concerns, and carried a 6th-round grade.

Maybe. But, MAYBE, A.J. and the scouts saw something, SOMETHING, that everybody else missed.

This. And stop calling him Mutton or Mutton Chops or whatever. Nonsense

There have been so-called "reaches" before in the NFL draft that had fans scratching their heads- but who panned out in the end.

Give the kid a chance! Maybe A.J. was right! Maybe, by the end of the season, fans will be growing Mutton-Chop sideburns on the Jonas Mouton bandwagon- and cheering "Mou-TON! Mou-TON! Mou-TON!"

It'll be interesting, anyway!

Or maybe it's just a huge mistake. Mutton before Wilson, Sheppard, and Sturdivant? I just don't agree with this. No matter how great AJ thinks this is, you have to question his decision making, especially in the 2nd round.


LOL Stone. Give it a rest. Wonder why Sturdivant went 6th round? Sheppard is a run stopper and awful in coverage. Wilson is raw and is not an ILB.
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JammerHammer21 wrote:
Stone85 wrote:
bzane wrote:
Boltstrikes wrote:
This is almost comical the experts rated Mouton a 4.7. which means we have the worst selection in the draft so far and by a pretty wide margin.


http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/05/03/draft-audibles

Comments from an NFL scout on Mouton, as reported on PFW.

Okay, they say he ran a 4.88 40, has character concerns, and carried a 6th-round grade.

Maybe. But, MAYBE, A.J. and the scouts saw something, SOMETHING, that everybody else missed.

There have been so-called "reaches" before in the NFL draft that had fans scratching their heads- but who panned out in the end.

Give the kid a chance! Maybe A.J. was right! Maybe, by the end of the season, fans will be growing Mutton-Chop sideburns on the Jonas Mouton bandwagon- and cheering "Mou-TON! Mou-TON! Mou-TON!"

It'll be interesting, anyway!

Or maybe it's just a huge mistake. Mutton before Wilson, Sheppard, and Sturdivant? I just don't agree with this. No matter how great AJ thinks this is, you have to question his decision making, especially in the 2nd round.


LOL Stone. Give it a rest. Wonder why Sturdivant went 6th round? Sheppard is a run stopper and awful in coverage. Wilson is raw and is not an ILB.


I feel like the mistake was passing on Mason Foster, though I liked Wilson and Houston. Foster is the same sort of player but more athletic and better production with no problems or off the field issues.
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Stone85


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JammerHammer21 wrote:
Stone85 wrote:
bzane wrote:
Boltstrikes wrote:
This is almost comical the experts rated Mouton a 4.7. which means we have the worst selection in the draft so far and by a pretty wide margin.


http://www.profootballweekly.com/2011/05/03/draft-audibles

Comments from an NFL scout on Mouton, as reported on PFW.

Okay, they say he ran a 4.88 40, has character concerns, and carried a 6th-round grade.

Maybe. But, MAYBE, A.J. and the scouts saw something, SOMETHING, that everybody else missed.

There have been so-called "reaches" before in the NFL draft that had fans scratching their heads- but who panned out in the end.

Give the kid a chance! Maybe A.J. was right! Maybe, by the end of the season, fans will be growing Mutton-Chop sideburns on the Jonas Mouton bandwagon- and cheering "Mou-TON! Mou-TON! Mou-TON!"

It'll be interesting, anyway!

Or maybe it's just a huge mistake. Mutton before Wilson, Sheppard, and Sturdivant? I just don't agree with this. No matter how great AJ thinks this is, you have to question his decision making, especially in the 2nd round.


LOL Stone. Give it a rest. Wonder why Sturdivant went 6th round? Sheppard is a run stopper and awful in coverage. Wilson is raw and is not an ILB.

Are any of our ILBs good in coverage? Mouton is a 6th round player. He was drafted in the 2nd round. Sturdivant is a 2-3rd round player, he was drafted in the 6th round. I would never ever ever pass on Sturdivant for Mouton. He couldn't even be an effective blitzer for Michigan, a college. I'm not just going to sit back and 100% support everything AJ does just because he's AJ -- it doesn't work like that. Mouton could have been good value in the 5th round. The second round is just sorry.
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually Sturdivant is a 6th round player. YOU might have had a 2nd or 3rd round grade on him. "Expert" draft sites around the web might have had a 2nd or 3rd round grade on him. But the fact remains that 31 other teams passed on him enough times that his "round" value is exactly where he went in the draft... the 6th round. Until he proves otherwise that's really not a disputable fact.

Every year there are tons of guys who the draft sites, and you, and I rate higher that proceed to go lower than anyone anticipated... and you know what? Most of them don't amount to squat as professional football players.

Jasper Brinkley - Graded as a solid 2nd round prospect by most "experts" fell to the 5th round in 2009 and has proved to be an extremely one-dimensional player as a pro, evidencing why he fell as far as he did.

Duke Robinson - The "top" guard in the 2009 draft class who was touted as a 1st round prospect by many... fell to the 5th round and hasn't done much of anything in Carolina even when their OL was ravaged by injuries last season.

Rufus Alexander was supposed to be some massive steal for the Vikings in 2007 - a 2nd to 3rd round rated linebacker prospect that they "managed to get" at the top of the 6th... he's been on 3 teams now, currently has no team, and was never able to stay on one for more than year.
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LBC, please see rookie numbers thread. Wink
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