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Help me to analyse that defensive play....
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Flounch


Joined: 12 Feb 2011
Posts: 168
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:15 pm    Post subject: Help me to analyse that defensive play.... Reply with quote

Well, i'm trying to understand what's the defensive play that were calling by Williams on the last play of the 2nd QT.

I'm watching this play over and over and i don't understand the defensive sheme in play here.

I don't have access to All 22 coach film so it's hard for me to get what's really going on. If someone has access to that and can get screen on that, it would be great.

So this is the look of the defensive play on that Llyod TD.



It's a nickel dime package with Joyner on Boldin in the nickel, Jenkins on Llyod and Gaines on Crabtree. So, now you still have 4 assignment to give to Ogletree, Laurinaitis, Mc Cleod and McDonald.

I'm not an expert but when i see this formation, i expect Ogletree and Laurinaitis to cover Davis and Gore in the middle with McCleod helping Jenkins and McDonald helping Gaines in the coverage.

Instead of that, maybe i' m wrong but this is what i saw:



McCleod going in front to cover Gore, McDonald to cover Boldin , Ogletree in zone coverage at the right and Laurinaitis in middle zone coverage. I can't see where Joyner and Gaines were at.....

So yes i think we all agree that Jenkins was blow badly by Llyod but i think the whole defensive sheme is a bit questionnable, don't you think ?

I still don't know if the defensive play was truly that or it was a blown assignment by the safety ?

But if the play was trully that, what's the point of that defensive play ?? You have to prevent the offense from a TD and you put the 2 CB on man to man without safety coverage ??

Could someone explain that concept to me ? Thanks
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jjab360


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Analysis: Gregg Williams needs to go.

Wikipedia says that Tim Walton guy is out of a job right now. Idea
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kgarrett12486


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If ever there was a time to play prevent defense that was it...

Also, JJ has to be smart enough there to not bite on the double move. There is a time and a place to be aggressive and jump a route. That was as clear as day (before the play unfolded) not the correct time...
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Jlowe22


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjab360 wrote:
Analysis: Gregg Williams needs to go.

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Jakuvious


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have all 22 either, but I had some of the same confusion as you with regards to it. I have to imagine it's a zone from the way Ogletree and Laurinaitis play it. But all I can think is some kind of weird cover 3 with JL playing deep middle. Because both safeties definitely come down towards the line, while JL backs up pretty deep for a MLB not playing a Tampa 2 or something.

I don't know. Whatever it was, it was a horrible call for the situation.
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ctp2124


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a total disaster from Jenkins and the coaches.

Jenkins- never should do that in that situation.

Coaches- either you play prevent or you call timeout and try to get a stop and get the ball back. In my mind there is no exception to that.
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Flounch


Joined: 12 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Jeff Fisher said that in his post conference game

Quote:
(On if there should have been safety help for CB Janoris Jenkins on the last play before the half) “We were in a three-deep concept. It was three-deep concept, so Janoris is supposed to stay on top.”


So it's a three deep concept with Jenkins, Gaines and Laurinaitis in deep coverage.....

What's the point to assign Laurinaitis in deep coverage while we know that he's running slow instead of a faster safety.... ?

And if you compare the alignment between Gaines and Jenkins, we can see that Gaines is already prepare to go in deep coverage unlike Jenkins who i think has no clue of the playcalling.....

Both fail on Jenkins and Williams....
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Emcee


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flounch wrote:
So Jeff Fisher said that in his post conference game

Quote:
(On if there should have been safety help for CB Janoris Jenkins on the last play before the half) “We were in a three-deep concept. It was three-deep concept, so Janoris is supposed to stay on top.”


So it's a three deep concept with Jenkins, Gaines and Laurinaitis in deep coverage.....

What's the point to assign Laurinaitis in deep coverage while we know that he's running slow instead of a faster safety.... ?

And if you compare the alignment between Gaines and Jenkins, we can see that Gaines is already prepare to go in deep coverage unlike Jenkins who i think has no clue of the playcalling.....

Both fail on Jenkins and Williams....


I'm guessing the main goal is to prevent a first down and have a chance at a score before half. Jenkins/Gaines are trusted to prevent the score, even if 1v1 means they give up a 20+ yd reception as, for all intents and purposes, a first is a first and SF would probably let the clock run.
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tim199009


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The three deep concept kind of makes sense and here's why:

- 49ers had 3 receivers on the field and Vernon Davis who counts as another.
- Rams matchup faster DBs closer to the receivers thinking it was going to be a short or intermediate pass to pick up the first down and/or get into field goal range
- 49ers did not call a time out and let the clock run which leading the rams to believe they were not trying to push the ball downfield
- Rams send Laurinitis to cover deep middle considering the clock situation would warrant 49ers to throw towards the sidelines
- Rams Dbs may have been told to play tighter to the LOS in the event Kaepernick decides to run for the first down

The playcall may have been appropriate for the given situation. However no one is expecting Brandon old man Lloyd to burn JJ in one on one coverage. JJ obviously jumps the double move which helped Brandon Lloyd get a step on him had he not bitten Jenkins would have been in a position to make a play on the ball

Moral of the story is hindsight is 20/20
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jjab360


Joined: 31 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flounch wrote:
So Jeff Fisher said that in his post conference game

Quote:
(On if there should have been safety help for CB Janoris Jenkins on the last play before the half) “We were in a three-deep concept. It was three-deep concept, so Janoris is supposed to stay on top.”


So it's a three deep concept with Jenkins, Gaines and Laurinaitis in deep coverage.....

What's the point to assign Laurinaitis in deep coverage while we know that he's running slow instead of a faster safety.... ?

And if you compare the alignment between Gaines and Jenkins, we can see that Gaines is already prepare to go in deep coverage unlike Jenkins who i think has no clue of the playcalling.....

Both fail on Jenkins and Williams....

If he's supposed to stay on top, there should be absolutely no reason that he's in press coverage and attempting to jump routes. Epic fail.
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Boboso20


Joined: 21 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjab360 wrote:
Flounch wrote:
So Jeff Fisher said that in his post conference game

Quote:
(On if there should have been safety help for CB Janoris Jenkins on the last play before the half) “We were in a three-deep concept. It was three-deep concept, so Janoris is supposed to stay on top.”


So it's a three deep concept with Jenkins, Gaines and Laurinaitis in deep coverage.....

What's the point to assign Laurinaitis in deep coverage while we know that he's running slow instead of a faster safety.... ?

And if you compare the alignment between Gaines and Jenkins, we can see that Gaines is already prepare to go in deep coverage unlike Jenkins who i think has no clue of the playcalling.....

Both fail on Jenkins and Williams....

If he's supposed to stay on top, there should be absolutely no reason that he's in press coverage and attempting to jump routes. Epic fail.


They said he blew it and was in the wrong coverage. You can see it in that pic where he is up on the LOS and gains is giving a cushion. It also seemed like jj was expecting help up top which proves he was in the wrong coverage.

As far as JL covering deep they played that a lot. That's why the middle of the field was open on 3rd and long a bunch of times and McLeod was coming up hard making tackles all game long. Niners didn't throw it deep a bunch. When they did it was busted coverage which sucks cause they turned into TD's. We stuffed the run and played pretty well on defense besides the big plays.
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jjab360


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boboso20 wrote:
jjab360 wrote:
Flounch wrote:
So Jeff Fisher said that in his post conference game

Quote:
(On if there should have been safety help for CB Janoris Jenkins on the last play before the half) “We were in a three-deep concept. It was three-deep concept, so Janoris is supposed to stay on top.”


So it's a three deep concept with Jenkins, Gaines and Laurinaitis in deep coverage.....

What's the point to assign Laurinaitis in deep coverage while we know that he's running slow instead of a faster safety.... ?

And if you compare the alignment between Gaines and Jenkins, we can see that Gaines is already prepare to go in deep coverage unlike Jenkins who i think has no clue of the playcalling.....

Both fail on Jenkins and Williams....

If he's supposed to stay on top, there should be absolutely no reason that he's in press coverage and attempting to jump routes. Epic fail.


They said he blew it and was in the wrong coverage. You can see it in that pic where he is up on the LOS and gains is giving a cushion. It also seemed like jj was expecting help up top which proves he was in the wrong coverage.

As far as JL covering deep they played that a lot. That's why the middle of the field was open on 3rd and long a bunch of times and McLeod was coming up hard making tackles all game long. Niners didn't throw it deep a bunch. When they did it was busted coverage which sucks cause they turned into TD's. We stuffed the run and played pretty well on defense besides the big plays.

Every defense can say they played pretty well besides the big plays. The big plays are precisely what mean you didn't play pretty well.
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Boboso20


Joined: 21 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjab360 wrote:
Boboso20 wrote:
jjab360 wrote:
Flounch wrote:
So Jeff Fisher said that in his post conference game

Quote:
(On if there should have been safety help for CB Janoris Jenkins on the last play before the half) “We were in a three-deep concept. It was three-deep concept, so Janoris is supposed to stay on top.”


So it's a three deep concept with Jenkins, Gaines and Laurinaitis in deep coverage.....

What's the point to assign Laurinaitis in deep coverage while we know that he's running slow instead of a faster safety.... ?

And if you compare the alignment between Gaines and Jenkins, we can see that Gaines is already prepare to go in deep coverage unlike Jenkins who i think has no clue of the playcalling.....

Both fail on Jenkins and Williams....

If he's supposed to stay on top, there should be absolutely no reason that he's in press coverage and attempting to jump routes. Epic fail.


They said he blew it and was in the wrong coverage. You can see it in that pic where he is up on the LOS and gains is giving a cushion. It also seemed like jj was expecting help up top which proves he was in the wrong coverage.

As far as JL covering deep they played that a lot. That's why the middle of the field was open on 3rd and long a bunch of times and McLeod was coming up hard making tackles all game long. Niners didn't throw it deep a bunch. When they did it was busted coverage which sucks cause they turned into TD's. We stuffed the run and played pretty well on defense besides the big plays.

Every defense can say they played pretty well besides the big plays. The big plays are precisely what mean you didn't play pretty well.



We stuffed the run all game and besides 2 big plays on busted coverages we played well. You can't take 2 plays and use that to gauge their performance
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The J.R.S.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boboso20 wrote:
jjab360 wrote:
Boboso20 wrote:
jjab360 wrote:
Flounch wrote:
So Jeff Fisher said that in his post conference game

Quote:
(On if there should have been safety help for CB Janoris Jenkins on the last play before the half) “We were in a three-deep concept. It was three-deep concept, so Janoris is supposed to stay on top.”


So it's a three deep concept with Jenkins, Gaines and Laurinaitis in deep coverage.....

What's the point to assign Laurinaitis in deep coverage while we know that he's running slow instead of a faster safety.... ?

And if you compare the alignment between Gaines and Jenkins, we can see that Gaines is already prepare to go in deep coverage unlike Jenkins who i think has no clue of the playcalling.....

Both fail on Jenkins and Williams....

If he's supposed to stay on top, there should be absolutely no reason that he's in press coverage and attempting to jump routes. Epic fail.


They said he blew it and was in the wrong coverage. You can see it in that pic where he is up on the LOS and gains is giving a cushion. It also seemed like jj was expecting help up top which proves he was in the wrong coverage.

As far as JL covering deep they played that a lot. That's why the middle of the field was open on 3rd and long a bunch of times and McLeod was coming up hard making tackles all game long. Niners didn't throw it deep a bunch. When they did it was busted coverage which sucks cause they turned into TD's. We stuffed the run and played pretty well on defense besides the big plays.

Every defense can say they played pretty well besides the big plays. The big plays are precisely what mean you didn't play pretty well.



We stuffed the run all game and besides 2 big plays on busted coverages we played well. You can't take 2 plays and use that to gauge their performance


Sure you can. It's often the difference between winning and losing a game.
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zn


Joined: 28 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greg Cosell commented on that play. He put it all on Jenkins. His point was that they had run that exact same defense 3 times before that play, and on the 4th, JJ screws it up by doing exactly the wrong thing.

Listen to Cosell on it, it's interesting:

http://theramshuddle.com/topic/cosell-on-920-1017/
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