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3-4 OLB Propsects
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nfldraftguru1


Joined: 07 Feb 2009
Posts: 10055
Location: Whitewater, WI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:15 pm    Post subject: 3-4 OLB Propsects Reply with quote

I know our OLB have to be extremely versatile in Capers scheme, they have to play well in space, be good pass rusher, and athletic enough to play in coverage. I've heard plenty of 3-4 OLBs but I'm not exactly sure who the best fits would be. Just from what I've heard around, Akeem Ayers seems to be the best fit due to his amazing versatility. Who would you say the best 3-4 OLB is, and why?
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JustisM


Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 16601
Location: Hood River, Oregon
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is my short list of 3-4 OLBs that I think could fit in our scheme:

Dontay Moch-Nevada
Akeem Ayers-UCLA
Chris Carter-Fresno State
Von Miller-Texas A&M
Steven Friday-Virginia Tech
Robert Quinn-North Carolina
Aldon Smith-Missouri
Mark Herzlich-Boston College
Vinny Curry-Marshall
Martez Wilson-Illinois

I think Moch, Carter or Ayers would be the best fits though.
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I Am Rodgers


Joined: 19 Jan 2009
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Location: New Jersey
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need to watch more games of him, but I like Sam Acho, but I'm not sure how fluid he'd be. Another name I like is Justin Houston. Already plays in a 3-4.
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JustisM


Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 16601
Location: Hood River, Oregon
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know most of you guys don't know Chris Carter so I did a short write up for you all.

Chris Carter
6'2 240 #43 Fresno State

Positives:
Arrow Never misses a tackle
Arrow Very strong
Arrow Has passrushing instincts
Arrow He can get in low angles when pass rushing just like some of the greats
Negatives:
Arrow Still unknown if he can cover
Arrow Only has okay speed (4.6-4.85)
Arrow Size, he is only 6'2"


This years stats game by game and all his season stats.

Junior Season Highlights
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMVtxfRt8ok
Includes some footage of him against some of your guys' Wisky Badgers Wink
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ShimSham


Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 11095
Location: Hattiesburg, MS
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taking a pass rusher in the first round scares me because of the bust rate of the past several years on pass rushers.

Looking back at 34OLBs and 43DEs selected in the first round...
2005 - Ware, Merriman, Erasmus James,
2006 - Mario W, K. Wimbley, Manny Lawson, Hali, Kiwanuka
2007 - Gaines Adams, Jamaal Anderson, Jarvis Moss,
2008 - Chris Long, Vernon Gholston, Derrick Harvey, Lawrence Jackson
2009 - Aaron Maybin, Brian Orakpo, Larry English, Robert Ayers, Clay Matthews

Merriman obviously had a great start to his career but we all have seen how it's gone since then. I think he deserves some recognition for his amazing start though.

I bolded the guys who I think have pretty much lived up to their billing, though obviously with the 2009 guys you want to give them a little more time. I also think Chris Long probably deserves consideration since he's started to come on. Wimbley got off to a hot start but faded. Manny Lawson isn't terrible but he's not that great either, solid start.

The hits are pretty big hits, the misses are usually equally as big misses.
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rdub1051


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 148
Location: Sacramento, Ca
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JustisM wrote:
I know most of you guys don't know Chris Carter so I did a short write up for you all.

Chris Carter
6'2 240 #43 Fresno State

Positives:
Arrow Never misses a tackle
Arrow Very strong
Arrow Has passrushing instincts
Arrow He can get in low angles when pass rushing just like some of the greats
Negatives:
Arrow Still unknown if he can cover
Arrow Only has okay speed (4.6-4.85)
Arrow Size, he is only 6'2"


This years stats game by game and all his season stats.

Junior Season Highlights
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMVtxfRt8ok
Includes some footage of him against some of your guys' Wisky Badgers Wink


I've gone back home to Fresno a few times and caught a few games since I started college and Carter has consistently been the most impressive player on the field. Against Utah State in 2009, there was a play in which he almost got to their QB, who is an extremely athletic player, and the quarterback proceeded to take off down the field. When he was tackled for about a ten yard gain, I was shocked to notice the player that made the tackle was noneother than #43 Chris Carter. I don't how he would be in coverage but I'll tell you this, he moves very well and his motor never stops. After all, we could use another player that rakes in the motor sacks Wink.
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MantyWrestler


Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 362
Location: Manitowoc, WI
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) Robert Quinn-North Carolina Huge 6'5" 270, great pash rusher... can he cover? #1 if he can

2) Von Miller-Texas A& very good athlete, like CM#

3) Akeem Ayers-UCLA very good athlete, like CM#

4) not sure yet but I like Moch's speed and Smith's athletic ability

Dontay Moch-Nevada crazy fast but small... not sure about him
Chris Carter-Fresno State
Steven Friday-Virginia Tech
Aldon Smith-MissouriMark Herzlich-Boston College
Vinny Curry-Marshall
Martez Wilson-Illinois

I think Moch, Carter or Ayers would be the best fits though.[/quote]
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 31288
Location: Madison
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've watched Moch a couple times. Thought he looked like trash, really not interested.

Houston early or Carter late are 2 guys that I like right now.

Such a hard position to judge.
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Waldo


Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 22679
Location: The ATL
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do two of you have long lists of guys yet leave Justin Houston off? He's arguably the most dominant pass rusher in the SEC, and he already plays 3-4 OLB.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 13874
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, Justin Houston right now for THIS team. There are a few guys that might be a hair more complete and look better in shorts come workouts, but Houston looks to be an ideal combo man for young Clay. Also plays the game with a HUGE chip on his shoulder at all times. Houston might not be as tech strong, but very much the same style of play as Graham had last class. Add in the film he now has on his feet, and you have a plus prospect all the way there IMO. Has a very low risk feel to him, though I have been told interviews will be big for the kid.

Either way, I frickin love that general mold. I also love the fact that he has great numbers over solid tackle play with his hand in the dirt. Also love those kids that ball from day one in a major program. Just damn easy to fall in love with him! Only real issue is off the field and in coverage, and just about all in that mold have some coverage flaws.

LOVE, LOVE, LOVE!!!!
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 13874
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn Waldo, ya beat me to it.....LOL
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Kal-El


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 3753
Location: Milwaukee, WI. Team: Packers.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShimSham wrote:
Taking a pass rusher in the first round scares me because of the bust rate of the past several years on pass rushers.

Looking back at 34OLBs and 43DEs selected in the first round...
2005 - Ware, Merriman, Erasmus James,
2006 - Mario W, K. Wimbley, Manny Lawson, Hali, Kiwanuka
2007 - Gaines Adams, Jamaal Anderson, Jarvis Moss,
2008 - Chris Long, Vernon Gholston, Derrick Harvey, Lawrence Jackson
2009 - Aaron Maybin, Brian Orakpo, Larry English, Robert Ayers, Clay Matthews

Merriman obviously had a great start to his career but we all have seen how it's gone since then. I think he deserves some recognition for his amazing start though.

I bolded the guys who I think have pretty much lived up to their billing, though obviously with the 2009 guys you want to give them a little more time. I also think Chris Long probably deserves consideration since he's started to come on. Wimbley got off to a hot start but faded. Manny Lawson isn't terrible but he's not that great either, solid start.

The hits are pretty big hits, the misses are usually equally as big misses.


I've heard this argument a lot and I have never got it. Especially coming from the perspective of a team that this paid off for BIG TIME. (Packers/Matthews)

If a guy seems to have what it takes and fits what you're looking for on your team from a pass-rush standpoint, then go for it. How often are you going to find a true stud pass-rusher off the market anyway? I can't think of one other than the Jared Allen thing (and he was had in a big trade by a team that could afford the luxury). Otherwise, they all pretty much seem to belong to the team that drafted them until their play goes down. Plus, a lot of those busts were picks that just should not have been made IMO.

The risk is well worth the reward.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not so sure I buy that either. You need to take that thing case by case IMO. First let me just say Long and English are both fine football players. James looked to be as well but had the injury, and RIP Adams. I'm sure that staff feels Merriman was worth the pick as well.

Then you have a few workout guys that jumped the board late (doubt TT would do so) with Lawson, Gholston, Maybin, Ayers, Moss, and Jackson. I do view Anderson and Harvey as bust picks. Do your homework though, and I'm more than OK with the rusher idea. Most bring teams value as well. Just because you don't see the sacks on paper should not spell bust.

Just saying, if you look at them case by case then look at TT's work over the years. I feel odds are high we will find a player at the end of the day. Might not be Clay, but a guy that brings value to the table.

That's also a gig that's hard to find the "great" later on. You might find a RB in the later rounds, but more times than not if you need a rusher you better get him quick.
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EMHS


Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 186
Location: Asheboro, NC
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JustisM wrote:
I know most of you guys don't know Chris Carter so I did a short write up for you all.

Chris Carter
6'2 240 #43 Fresno State

Positives:
Arrow Never misses a tackle
Arrow Very strong
Arrow Has passrushing instincts
Arrow He can get in low angles when pass rushing just like some of the greats
Negatives:
Arrow Still unknown if he can cover
Arrow Only has okay speed (4.6-4.85)
Arrow Size, he is only 6'2"



Most of the bold could be said for Lamar Woodley as well. That dropped him to the second round (which many would go back and get him in the first!)

Listen, you listed off the guys that have busted and been hits on first round DE and OLB...look at the teams they have played for. Look who is coaching them.....look at what they are being asked to do...does it fit what they CAN do? This is why coaching is so important...they can teach Bill to beat Bob...and put him in a position to be successful. RE: look at Kampman....he wasn't going to be as successful with his hand up/as it was down.

Look at our coaches...OLB coach Kevin Greene (BTW, did you know his middle name is Darwin? Crazy cool) can teach great things to kids these days...look at Zombo and Jones. Give him a truly gifted player (CM3) and look out. But then also look at Capers...the best man to put his players in a position to execute a game plan that will work.

What I'm saying is more then half of those busts that you listed, would not be bust here in Green Bay because of the talent around them and the coaching staff. So when it comes to the upcoming draft....if we get one or the other, then look out because he'll be a force.

Oh yeah, anyone have a link or tape on Justin Houston?
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EMHS


Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 186
Location: Asheboro, NC
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just watched the Chris Carter video...

He is very small in the seat...I would question his leg strength. He does look like he could add some to his frame. He looks in the build of Maybin and or B Jones.. No doubt he has speed, but that is all you see in his video, if he isn't getting the arc...he isn't getting the QB. That is a positive in some way, it is very hard to teach that speed (note, almost impossible), but if you can get one or two counters to that (rip/spin to the inside) then he'll be a force. I like him playing with the cast, it shows a bit of heart and toughness.

All in all...I'd be concerned that a majority of his reel came from a game vs Hawaii. They throw 110% of the time...very east to pass rush against that. I'd also like to see how he holds up vs the run at the point. At 240 I would be a bit concerned.
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