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The Grind vs. The Quest in RPG/MMO?

 
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Grind vs. Quest
Grind
25%
 25%  [ 2 ]
Quest
62%
 62%  [ 5 ]
Combination of both
12%
 12%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 8

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SHSTE92


Joined: 08 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:48 pm    Post subject: The Grind vs. The Quest in RPG/MMO? Reply with quote

I was listening to the podcast at: http://www.gcub3d.com/read-me-1-1-2

It made me thing about it, some people don't mind the grind style RPG or MMO. Too me I really need the guesting side to stay focused. Maybe with a little mix in of grinding.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Gcub3d/937402006287748
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HighHopes


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the best gameplay design is hiding grinding behind side quests. Its possible to tell a good story or make a likable character in just a few lines. So if you can help me level up while I connect with a few NPCs, thats just awesome.

Of course, developers cant create 100s of hours of original content. So the ability to make repeatable quests believable or just having the grind parts fun. (Mini games, different ways to grind, small objectives that mix it up etc) are also important.

If hiding it behind quests isnt possible or whatever, I think there are two main qualities needed for a positive grinding feel.

1. The gameplay is fun and can be varied.

2. No matter how many hours are put into the game, there needs to be a sense of accomplishment every so often. Before grinding becomes tedious, but not too much where developers cant keep up with the progress.

I think Diablo 3 does it really well. While Im grinding for specific items, every so often a super rare item will drop. Even if its useless, I feel like Im make progress even if its just pure luck.
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SHSTE92


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HighHopes wrote:
I think the best gameplay design is hiding grinding behind side quests. Its possible to tell a good story or make a likable character in just a few lines. So if you can help me level up while I connect with a few NPCs, thats just awesome.

Of course, developers cant create 100s of hours of original content. So the ability to make repeatable quests believable or just having the grind parts fun. (Mini games, different ways to grind, small objectives that mix it up etc) are also important.

If hiding it behind quests isnt possible or whatever, I think there are two main qualities needed for a positive grinding feel.

1. The gameplay is fun and can be varied.

2. No matter how many hours are put into the game, there needs to be a sense of accomplishment every so often. Before grinding becomes tedious, but not too much where developers cant keep up with the progress.

I think Diablo 3 does it really well. While Im grinding for specific items, every so often a super rare item will drop. Even if its useless, I feel like Im make progress even if its just pure luck.


Fully agree.
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HighHopes


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do think the story part of quests should be skippable though. It would be pretty annoying to grind a mission but then have to listen to a cutscene or something every single time lol.

Sometimes you just need dat EXP and dont care about the kid trying to save his father from a sickness.
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NickButera


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SHSTE92 wrote:
HighHopes wrote:
I think the best gameplay design is hiding grinding behind side quests. Its possible to tell a good story or make a likable character in just a few lines. So if you can help me level up while I connect with a few NPCs, thats just awesome.

Of course, developers cant create 100s of hours of original content. So the ability to make repeatable quests believable or just having the grind parts fun. (Mini games, different ways to grind, small objectives that mix it up etc) are also important.

If hiding it behind quests isnt possible or whatever, I think there are two main qualities needed for a positive grinding feel.

1. The gameplay is fun and can be varied.

2. No matter how many hours are put into the game, there needs to be a sense of accomplishment every so often. Before grinding becomes tedious, but not too much where developers cant keep up with the progress.

I think Diablo 3 does it really well. While Im grinding for specific items, every so often a super rare item will drop. Even if its useless, I feel like Im make progress even if its just pure luck.


Fully agree.


+2. Which is why IMO Xenoblade Chronicles was one of the best rpg's I've ever played. It did this amazingly well.
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Mossburg


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grinding is worth it if it contributes to some type of really worthwhile endgame. I find a rare item, I put it on a character to do what? Grind more? No thank you. If that item is unique and helps me build a specific character for PVP matches, or has trade value to get me other unique items that I need? Yes please.
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fretgod99


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mossburg wrote:
Grinding is worth it if it contributes to some type of really worthwhile endgame. I find a rare item, I put it on a character to do what? Grind more? No thank you. If that item is unique and helps me build a specific character for PVP matches, or has trade value to get me other unique items that I need? Yes please.
Pretty much. I like quests, but I also don't mind grinding out levels. I'm an old-school Final Fantasy guy; grinding was pretty much a necessity in those games.

But for some reason I can't really get into games like Diablo III. I played through it once and started going through it again to grind and I was just bored. There's really nothing new with it. That's why I play things like DCUO in spurts. I'll get interested for a month or two and play, but then ignore it for like 6 months because it gets boring doing the same thing for little more payoff than "Here's some new armor! Now do that same thing 150 more times to get the next 8 pieces you need to do something new."

I can play through new characters in games like Dragon Age, because I usually take different routes, even if much of the game play is the same. But grinding for the sake of grinding sucks.
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Mossburg


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fretgod99 wrote:
Mossburg wrote:
Grinding is worth it if it contributes to some type of really worthwhile endgame. I find a rare item, I put it on a character to do what? Grind more? No thank you. If that item is unique and helps me build a specific character for PVP matches, or has trade value to get me other unique items that I need? Yes please.
Pretty much. I like quests, but I also don't mind grinding out levels. I'm an old-school Final Fantasy guy; grinding was pretty much a necessity in those games.

But for some reason I can't really get into games like Diablo III. I played through it once and started going through it again to grind and I was just bored. There's really nothing new with it. That's why I play things like DCUO in spurts. I'll get interested for a month or two and play, but then ignore it for like 6 months because it gets boring doing the same thing for little more payoff than "Here's some new armor! Now do that same thing 150 more times to get the next 8 pieces you need to do something new."

I can play through new characters in games like Dragon Age, because I usually take different routes, even if much of the game play is the same. But grinding for the sake of grinding sucks.


The thing that really sucks about D3 IMO is they changed the way your grind. In D2, grinding was just creating a game, clearing out all the bosses that have chance to drop good items, moving into next game to repeat. You can do all of that really fast with a well geared char. In D3, grinding is like REALLY grinding, takes forever to kill off the hardest monsters as a group, sometimes doesn't even feel like it's worth it. Plus you can't TP around the areas like in D2 making it even more tiresome. Probably the main reason why I never go into D3 much like you.
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l3lind golfer


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diablo 3 is great, you just ain't got the heart to grind with the big boys.
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HighHopes


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mossburg wrote:
fretgod99 wrote:
Mossburg wrote:
Grinding is worth it if it contributes to some type of really worthwhile endgame. I find a rare item, I put it on a character to do what? Grind more? No thank you. If that item is unique and helps me build a specific character for PVP matches, or has trade value to get me other unique items that I need? Yes please.
Pretty much. I like quests, but I also don't mind grinding out levels. I'm an old-school Final Fantasy guy; grinding was pretty much a necessity in those games.

But for some reason I can't really get into games like Diablo III. I played through it once and started going through it again to grind and I was just bored. There's really nothing new with it. That's why I play things like DCUO in spurts. I'll get interested for a month or two and play, but then ignore it for like 6 months because it gets boring doing the same thing for little more payoff than "Here's some new armor! Now do that same thing 150 more times to get the next 8 pieces you need to do something new."

I can play through new characters in games like Dragon Age, because I usually take different routes, even if much of the game play is the same. But grinding for the sake of grinding sucks.


The thing that really sucks about D3 IMO is they changed the way your grind. In D2, grinding was just creating a game, clearing out all the bosses that have chance to drop good items, moving into next game to repeat. You can do all of that really fast with a well geared char. In D3, grinding is like REALLY grinding, takes forever to kill off the hardest monsters as a group, sometimes doesn't even feel like it's worth it. Plus you can't TP around the areas like in D2 making it even more tiresome. Probably the main reason why I never go into D3 much like you.


Have you gotten to the expansion after game? It sounds pretty similar to what you are saying now. I never got into D2, but I know quite a few people liked the changes they did with Reaper of Souls.
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theJ


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gimme the story. My days of grinding on a RPG for 6 hours straight are done. Don't have that kind of time anymore.

Yes, i know how that sentence sounded.

I really enjoyed the Mass Effect 2 system. Or Dragon Age. Games where leveling happened while you played through the game. Not where you grind so you can advance on to the next part of the game just to grind some more.
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Strawman Theory


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quest vs Grind dilemma is obfuscated by the fact that grinding has changed so drastically that it is no longer the same experience it once was. Every MMO since WoW has launched with the idea that you should be able to hit level cap by yourself. Which is contrary to the experience you previously had with grinding. It was not a solo experience. You made friends, you made enemies, you found the competent players that would enable you to outpace other groups in order to reach the cap faster. Grinding was previously a social experience that benefited you greatly. With the quest hub grind and the easing of content, you were no longer bound by the trinity. Which is a shame because as far as I know people still enter dungeons, do raids, and pvp in a group setting. So it makes little sense not to develop the entire game around the social aspect of it that players obviously want and strive for at end game.

Developers be stupid yo.
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fretgod99


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

l3lind golfer wrote:
Diablo 3 is great, you just ain't got the heart to grind with the big boys.
Dude, I've maxed out characters on the original Final Fantasy.

Sit back down, son.

Wink
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l3lind golfer


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fretgod99 wrote:
l3lind golfer wrote:
Diablo 3 is great, you just ain't got the heart to grind with the big boys.
Dude, I've maxed out characters on the original Final Fantasy.

Sit back down, son.

Wink
I have no idea what the original Final Fantasy even is. I was talking to Mossburg. Somewhere between college and the office he's gotten soft. He's forgotten who he is and where he came from Wink
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Heimdallr


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion, if you have to sit in one place and grind just to advance the game isn't paced properly.

The main quests should be enough to level up enough to continue forward. Once the main story is done there can be side quests and end game events that require extra work, but the main story should be paced properly.
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