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Grachuus
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 Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:23 pm Post subject: Top QB TD%-INT% comparison using defensive prowess *2/10/11 |
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Below is a table comparing what is considered by some to be the three best quarterbacks of this era (and a couple of up and comers) and their abilities against varying levels of defensive competition. Defenses are ranked via PPG.
This is a quick run to stack in the current years regular season data to prior years for Brees, Brady, and Manning.
1) Would like suggestions for QB's over 2k attempts that you believe are worthy of being included in this discussion
Points are utilized as a determiner for defensive strength due to a number of factors but mainly that points correlate strongly with winning/losing. Some have suggested a passer rating against valuation against passers but unfortunately that ends up being skewed more than points against on a year to year basis. If YOU want to do a table on passer rating against by all means.
About interesting changes to the table with new data:
Brees is finally positive TD%-INT% against top five defenses for the first time in his career
Manning did not face a single top five defense this season. He only faced two top ten defenses.
Brady faced four top five and another three top ten defenses this season.
Brees faced four top five defenses and another top ten defense. His interception total against top five defenses exceeded Brady's total for the year.
I hope you all enjoy the table.
A more basic TD%-INT% comparison
Same tables but using QBR against to judge defenses.
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=11146515#11146515
Other interesting data compiled/computed by others. Show me your work if you have something swell and if my grumpy self approves I'll link below!
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=11139380#11139380
Another poster took games and compared proportions for defensive quality faced. Interesting!
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QBvsDefensiveQuality
Last edited by Grachuus on Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:33 pm; edited 9 times in total |
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MaddHatter
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Posts: 41472
Location: Dallas, TX
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Not that I think they deserve consideration for Top 3, but I'd like to see numbers on Rivers and Romo (Rodgers doesn't have the required 2k attempts I don't believe). Romo would be from last season if possible
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Grachuus
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| MaddHatter wrote: | | Not that I think they deserve consideration for Top 3, but I'd like to see numbers on Rivers and Romo (Rodgers doesn't have the required 2k attempts I don't believe). Romo would be from last season if possible |
I happened to have a bit of time.
Interesting note from that data:
Romo has only faced a top five defense more than once in 2008 when he faced five.
I just realized you asked for through '09 but I pulled all the data.
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QBvsDefensiveQuality |
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The Third Rider
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
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Location: Running up the score on your favorite team
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Very interesting numbers.
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KingofSTATS
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 7923
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Grachuus wrote: | | MaddHatter wrote: | | Not that I think they deserve consideration for Top 3, but I'd like to see numbers on Rivers and Romo (Rodgers doesn't have the required 2k attempts I don't believe). Romo would be from last season if possible |
I happened to have a bit of time.
Interesting note from that data:
Romo has only faced a top five defense more than once in 2008 when he faced five.
I just realized you asked for through '09 but I pulled all the data. |
Nothing on Rivers??
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BrettFavre004
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
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Location: Galesville, WI
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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I think Rodgers has his 1600+ attempts, over the 1500 league cutoff, and is the highest rated passer in NFL history and has the best TD-INT ratio in NFL history. Not sure if you have the data for him since he is under 2000.
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Grachuus
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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Location: Thanks for the Sig Deadpulse!
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| BrettFavre004 wrote: | | I think Rodgers has his 1600+ attempts, over the 1500 league cutoff, and is the highest rated passer in NFL history and has the best TD-INT ratio in NFL history. Not sure if you have the data for him since he is under 2000. |
Because of the number of sub categories under 2000 provides a very sub par sample. I don't actually have any of the quarterbacks aside from those I've listed put into my data. I just have a good way of taking the raw data and extracting what I'm looking for without more than an hour or so per quarterback.
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QBvsDefensiveQuality |
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Grachuus
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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Location: Thanks for the Sig Deadpulse!
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| KingofSTATS wrote: | | Grachuus wrote: | | MaddHatter wrote: | | Not that I think they deserve consideration for Top 3, but I'd like to see numbers on Rivers and Romo (Rodgers doesn't have the required 2k attempts I don't believe). Romo would be from last season if possible |
I happened to have a bit of time.
Interesting note from that data:
Romo has only faced a top five defense more than once in 2008 when he faced five.
I just realized you asked for through '09 but I pulled all the data. |
Nothing on Rivers?? |
Oh I have it but I elected to hold on to it while cackling maniacally.
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| Mark Twain wrote: | | Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination. |
QBvsDefensiveQuality |
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mse326
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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Location: LORK on the sig
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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Out of curiosity. When you say top-5 Defense what do you mean?
Total based on yards?
Total based on points?
Pass defense?
What?
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Grachuus
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Top QB TD%-INT% comparison using defensive prowess |
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| Grachuus wrote: |
This is a quick run to stack in the current years regular season data to prior years for Brees, Brady, and Manning.
1) Would like suggestions for QB's over 2k attempts that you believe are worthy of being included in this discussion
2) the current years data is predicated on this subset for defensive prowess
Points are utilized as a determiner for defensive strength due to a number of factors but mainly that points correlate strongly with winning/losing. Some have suggested a passer rating against valuation against passers but unfortunately that ends up being skewed more than points against on a year to year basis. If YOU want to do a table on passer rating against by all means.
About interesting changes to the table with new data:
Brees is finally positive TD%-INT% against top five defenses for the first time in his career
Manning did not face a single top five defense this season. He only faced two top ten defenses.
Brady faced four top five and another three top ten defenses this season.
Brees faced four top five defenses and another top ten defense. His interception total against top five defenses exceeded Brady's total for the year.
I hope you all enjoy the table. |
_________________
| Mark Twain wrote: | | Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination. |
QBvsDefensiveQuality |
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KingofSTATS
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 7923
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Grachuus wrote: | | KingofSTATS wrote: | | Grachuus wrote: | | MaddHatter wrote: | | Not that I think they deserve consideration for Top 3, but I'd like to see numbers on Rivers and Romo (Rodgers doesn't have the required 2k attempts I don't believe). Romo would be from last season if possible |
I happened to have a bit of time.
Interesting note from that data:
Romo has only faced a top five defense more than once in 2008 when he faced five.
I just realized you asked for through '09 but I pulled all the data. |
Nothing on Rivers?? |
Oh I have it but I elected to hold on to it while cackling maniacally. |
What are you insinuating exactly?? If you have it why not post the information.
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Grachuus
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 25109
Location: Thanks for the Sig Deadpulse!
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| KingofSTATS wrote: | | Grachuus wrote: | | KingofSTATS wrote: | | Grachuus wrote: | | MaddHatter wrote: | | Not that I think they deserve consideration for Top 3, but I'd like to see numbers on Rivers and Romo (Rodgers doesn't have the required 2k attempts I don't believe). Romo would be from last season if possible |
I happened to have a bit of time.
Interesting note from that data:
Romo has only faced a top five defense more than once in 2008 when he faced five.
I just realized you asked for through '09 but I pulled all the data. |
Nothing on Rivers?? |
Oh I have it but I elected to hold on to it while cackling maniacally. |
What are you insinuating exactly?? If you have it why not post the information. |
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| Mark Twain wrote: | | Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination. |
QBvsDefensiveQuality |
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SemperFi
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 3917
Location: Hilton Head, SC
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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This is worse than the guys obsessed with sabermetrics in baseball. You never learn, do you? Is a Pittsburgh defense as good without Polamalu or Aaron Smith as they are with them. Is Dallas as good without Ware. How about Baltimore and Lewis? Or Cole and Philly? Or New Orleans and Malcolm Jenkins?
Unless you want to post the injury report for every single game, these stats are useless.
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Grachuus
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| SemperFi wrote: | This is worse than the guys obsessed with sabermetrics in baseball. You never learn, do you? Is a Pittsburgh defense as good without Polamalu or Aaron Smith as they are with them. Is Dallas as good without Ware. How about Baltimore and Lewis? Or Cole and Philly? Or New Orleans and Malcolm Jenkins?
Unless you want to post the injury report for every single game, these stats are useless. |
If you don't like it don't read it. There's no point trying to explain the absolute simplest parts of statistical analysis to someone that doesn't want to listen. The five or six tries I gave you is plenty. If for some reason you genuinely want to understand the topic you're trying to discuss PM me and I'll be glad to tutor you on the subject.
If that is not the case please for your own sake either stop discussing the subject or go to your local community college and take a class.
Have a nice day.
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| Mark Twain wrote: | | Sanity and happiness are an impossible combination. |
QBvsDefensiveQuality
Last edited by Grachuus on Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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SemperFi
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 3917
Location: Hilton Head, SC
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| Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Grachuus wrote: | | SemperFi wrote: | This is worse than the guys obsessed with sabermetrics in baseball. You never learn, do you? Is a Pittsburgh defense as good without Polamalu or Aaron Smith as they are with them. Is Dallas as good without Ware. How about Baltimore and Lewis? Or Cole and Philly? Or New Orleans and Malcolm Jenkins?
Unless you want to post the injury report for every single game, these stats are useless. |
If you don't like it don't read it. There's no point trying to explain the absolute simplest parts of statistical analysis to someone that doesn't want to listen. The five or six tries I gave you is plenty.
Please for your own sake either stop discussing the subject or go to your local community college and take a class.
Have a nice day. |
Explain what? Its pretty simple, your rankings dont take into account injuries. No way to argue around it. Was the Pats as ggod without Brady in 08? Didnt think so.
The Steelers are not as good of a dfense without Polamalu or Smith. Thats a fact. Heck, the Colts arent as good without Sanders. Common sense would tell us you take good-great players off a defense, that defense isnt as good.
Continue to ignore that though.
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