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smetana34


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
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Location: Chippewa Falls, WI
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
What's everyone's opinions on the next big thing? I don't know if it's been discussed but I guess it's not a bad thing to keep the discussion going every now and then.


He's an average poster who was good for a laugh with some of his mancrush's on certain players.
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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 11998
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sucks when tax refunds/bonuses all come in and you want to invest, but the market really seems to be at a peak. Sad

Of course, no one really knows if it's really peaked or if there a bigger peak coming up, but psychologically it doesn't seem logical to buy high.
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theJ


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Joined: 20 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
It sucks when tax refunds/bonuses all come in and you want to invest, but the market really seems to be at a peak. Sad

Of course, no one really knows if it's really peaked or if there a bigger peak coming up, but psychologically it doesn't seem logical to buy high.

Just buy somewhat routinely, or on a schedule and it'll even out. For the average Joe, it makes no sense to try and figure out where peaks and valleys are. Basically don't worry so much.
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Jeezy Fanatic


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 26086
Location: Proud Alumnus of the University of Miami
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

theJ wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
It sucks when tax refunds/bonuses all come in and you want to invest, but the market really seems to be at a peak. Sad

Of course, no one really knows if it's really peaked or if there a bigger peak coming up, but psychologically it doesn't seem logical to buy high.

Just buy somewhat routinely, or on a schedule and it'll even out. For the average Joe, it makes no sense to try and figure out where peaks and valleys are. Basically don't worry so much.


Yup. Dollar cost average is the way to go. It all evens out.
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fraziafraze07


Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 9869
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeezy Fanatic wrote:
theJ wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
It sucks when tax refunds/bonuses all come in and you want to invest, but the market really seems to be at a peak. Sad

Of course, no one really knows if it's really peaked or if there a bigger peak coming up, but psychologically it doesn't seem logical to buy high.

Just buy somewhat routinely, or on a schedule and it'll even out. For the average Joe, it makes no sense to try and figure out where peaks and valleys are. Basically don't worry so much.


Yup. Dollar cost average is the way to go. It all evens out.


To follow up on this, it's like my parents have said to me:

"It's not about trying to time the market, it's about time in the market."

If you sit around waiting and waiting and waiting for the perfect time to buy a stock, it may not come around for a while. And then you've lost out on potential dividends you can reinvest, etc. You may be able to save a small amount of money by waiting for a lower share price, but the longer you hold on to a stock, the more compounding interest you can earn, and that will make up the difference between your desired lower price and the higher one you actually bought at.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 69131
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
It sucks when tax refunds/bonuses all come in and you want to invest, but the market really seems to be at a peak. Sad

Of course, no one really knows if it's really peaked or if there a bigger peak coming up, but psychologically it doesn't seem logical to buy high.


The market hasn't peaked. Even if it goes through a down period, ride it out. Invest long-term, and you'll be fine.(and diversify)
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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh I'm aware of all of that^^^ Even said so in my post.

Just pointing out the psychology that works against the sound mathematical logic Laughing
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ramssuperbowl99


Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 35257
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.paul.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/ObamacareReplacementActSections.pdf

Has anyone seen that Rand Paul's new proposed health care plan? The only reason I'm posting it here is because using HSA's as a tax-deffered/tax-free retirement account is the next trend in personal finance, and this has the potential to blow the roof off of that scam:
Quote:
Expansion of Health Savings Accounts
Tax Credit for HSA Contributions
Provides individuals the option of a tax credit of up to $5,000 per taxpayer for contributions to an HSA. If an individual chooses not to accept the tax credit or contributes in excess of $5,000, those contributions are still tax-preferred.
Maximum Contribution Limit to HSA
Removes the maximum allowable annual contribution, so that individuals may make unlimited contributions to an HSA.


Here's some background on an HSA as a retirement account if you're curious:
http://www.madfientist.com/ultimate-retirement-account/

The way I'm reading this is (for an individual), you can commit up to $5000/year to your HSA and the government will give you that $5000 back come tax time. Which is a crazy tiny tax bill. Between that and other deductions/credits, it's probably not hard to come up with a way to pay almost $0 in income taxes up through the 15% tax bracket.

So then, from there, you'd just start maxing out 401k/tIRA to try and stay under, and then once you can't do that any more, just make post-tax contributions to your HSA? You basically only start paying income taxes at the $73,000/year mark, and never pay capital gains taxes while your money grows.

Am I nuts?

I'm not trying to talk politics either, this is purely a personal finance question.
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SMashMouthMike


Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 5554
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HSAs are nice; i dont understand them too well, because i got kids and a family plan so I'm always using it for medical bills, doctor's visits, and prescriptions. So I cant build them up like some others can.

I dont think the following is entirely correct...

Quote:
The way I'm reading this is (for an individual), you can commit up to $5000/year to your HSA and the government will give you that $5000 back come tax time. Which is a crazy tiny tax bill. Between that and other deductions/credits, it's probably not hard to come up with a way to pay almost $0 in income taxes up through the 15% tax bracket.


The way i read it was that it just reduces your gross income by the amount of your yearly contributions, so it might lower your marginal tax rate, maybe drop you into the next lowest tax bracket if you are extremely lucky. So your contribution would save you maybe (the marginal tax rate x your contribution).

In your example that's (.15 x 5000) or $750.00 on your federal tax, I think.
Which is nice but not life changing.

***edit(Rand Paul's proposal is up to a $5,000 tax credit! with Unlimited contributions! wow! Sounds too nice, to ever be law.)

Now i don't know if the 5000 is the absolute contribution limits or if that is just an example. Some insurances like these can be like Roths on steroids I've heard. I would think it(the contribution) would be higher but I don't know. But that is very nice that they grow tax free and offer you a current tax benefit. Someone here knows more about these than me but if you can maximize your contributions in your regular plan, and you are young and healthy without kids, then also maximizing this would also be very beneficial I would think. Hope that helps, and thanks for posting. I have one of these and didn't know all that. I'm still a little confused. Laughing
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ramssuperbowl99


Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 35257
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SMashMouthMike wrote:
***edit(Rand Paul's proposal is up to a $5,000 tax credit! with Unlimited contributions! wow! Sounds too nice, to ever be law.)
Yep. Seriously.

Even if you are struggling to keep your HSA going with the family and whatnot, if you could just float $5000 of it and pay the medical expenses some other way, you're coming out seriously ahead.

I didn't describe the unlimited contributions well, but my guess is that they are post-tax contributions (not the end of the world) that grow tax free and you can withdraw with normal HSA rules. So basically every medical expense you ever have comes out like a rothIRA. I'm not exactly sure how the rest of the expenses are taxed.

This is why I'm asking the question, because this seems like as long as you can live on less than $50k/year/person, you basically aren't paying taxes until after you get to more than $73k/year/person and are never going to be paying capital gains tax. Pretty damn huge loophole.
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SMashMouthMike


Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 5554
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I didn't describe the unlimited contributions well, but my guess is that they are post-tax contributions (not the end of the world) that grow tax free and you can withdraw with normal HSA rules.


Those weren't really addressed in Rand's proposal as being post tax, but seemed to just adopt previous HSA rules, as far as I can figure. very confusing to me.

And that seems to be a pretty big looohole. Just make 73,000 and marry/raise a family with someone with about that same income? Crazy! Laughing "Honey, we might have to get a 'tax annulment' this year."
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Last edited by SMashMouthMike on Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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IrishGreen


Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rand paul is a fiscal don
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ramssuperbowl99


Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 35257
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SMashMouthMike wrote:
Quote:
I didn't describe the unlimited contributions well, but my guess is that they are post-tax contributions (not the end of the world) that grow tax free and you can withdraw with normal HSA rules.


Those weren't really addressed in Rand's proposal as being post tax, but seemed to just adopt previous HSA rules, as far as I can figure. very confusing to me.

And that seems to be a pretty big looohole. Just make 73,000 and marry/raise a family with someone with about that same income? Crazy! Laughing "Honey, we might have to get a 'tax annulment' this year."
2 people living together but not married (I'm lazy don't judge) making $73k/year each could save:
Arrow $37k/year in 401(k), not including employer match
Arrow $11k/year in tIRA
Arrow $10k/year in HSA

With a total federal income tax bill of somewhere around $5k and have $83k (before other taxes) for expenses. Even if they save none of their extra money and get no employer match, that's a 40% savings rate including taxes.
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SMashMouthMike


Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 5554
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing

We got to be missing the fine print! No way they get rid of federal income taxes for that many people! Heck I'd love it, but even Grover Norquist would say, "Yeah that's "nutz." I'll get the cliff notes version of the official law,if we ever get one.. Very Happy
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 15392
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone gonna gobble up some of Snap when it becomes available? I think I'm going to but not a heavy chunk of money.
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