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EliteTexan80


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
[good breakdown]


Interesting, very well thought out and concise. Might be worth a few bucks. Thanks for the update! Very Happy
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acowboys62


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BrettFavre004 wrote:
Does any here ever work with derivatives?

Yes I have. Was not a fan of it, did not stay at the firm long.

All I will say about investing, is if someone is investing for the short term, trying to make a quick buck, you have already lost. No point in speculating, you will fail as much as you succeed, if not more so.
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Mossburg


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

acowboys62 wrote:
BrettFavre004 wrote:
Does any here ever work with derivatives?

Yes I have. Was not a fan of it, did not stay at the firm long.

All I will say about investing, is if someone is investing for the short term, trying to make a quick buck, you have already lost. No point in speculating, you will fail as much as you succeed, if not more so.


That's why I never touch individual stocks and never plan to. The latest fiasco with Facebook proves again that it is all an insider's game, and with how unclear the interpretation of the rules can be, people can still get away with it and outsiders get burned. I'll stick with ETFs.
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latinoaustino


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mossburg wrote:
acowboys62 wrote:
BrettFavre004 wrote:
Does any here ever work with derivatives?

Yes I have. Was not a fan of it, did not stay at the firm long.

All I will say about investing, is if someone is investing for the short term, trying to make a quick buck, you have already lost. No point in speculating, you will fail as much as you succeed, if not more so.


That's why I never touch individual stocks and never plan to. The latest fiasco with Facebook proves again that it is all an insider's game, and with how unclear the interpretation of the rules can be, people can still get away with it and outsiders get burned. I'll stick with ETFs.


Go with the Warren Buffett strategy and you'll be alright. Part of that strategy is staying away from companies and stocks if you don't completely understand how they make their money or how they were valued with the revenue they are showing. A lot of the problem with FB is people were enamored with the potential instead of looking at the hard numbers. The hard numbers had them valued at a fraction of the IPO price.
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incognito_man


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

where do you buy your stocks through?
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latinoaustino


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

incognito_man wrote:
where do you buy your stocks through?


Etrade is where I go. You've gotta decide how you want to trade before you set it up though. If you're looking to day trade a bit you've gotta set up the margin account but for a long term portfolio the standard options are fine. Etrade actually shut down my account twice for "high volume trading" before I set up the margin account (I think they meant I bought and sold the stocks too quickly). I don't know if it was a glitch in their system but it was weird to say the least.
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willy_law


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do any of you guys use the contrarian approach? Within 2 or 3 years, I plan on investing, probably once I get my first internship I will. The contrarian approach intrigues me but it may be too big of risk?

has anyone used it and succeded with it?
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acowboys62


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

latinoaustino wrote:
Mossburg wrote:
acowboys62 wrote:
BrettFavre004 wrote:
Does any here ever work with derivatives?

Yes I have. Was not a fan of it, did not stay at the firm long.

All I will say about investing, is if someone is investing for the short term, trying to make a quick buck, you have already lost. No point in speculating, you will fail as much as you succeed, if not more so.


That's why I never touch individual stocks and never plan to. The latest fiasco with Facebook proves again that it is all an insider's game, and with how unclear the interpretation of the rules can be, people can still get away with it and outsiders get burned. I'll stick with ETFs.


Go with the Warren Buffett strategy and you'll be alright. Part of that strategy is staying away from companies and stocks if you don't completely understand how they make their money or how they were valued with the revenue they are showing. A lot of the problem with FB is people were enamored with the potential instead of looking at the hard numbers. The hard numbers had them valued at a fraction of the IPO price.

Well, the problem with FB is that people are generally stupid. They hear IPO and assume a good thing or a sure thing. In Germany the big banks were selling shares at $75...I am sure those people feel great now.

And yes, personally if I don't understand a company I won't go near it (this tends to only happen with co-ops, if they are even public (rare), and tech companies like FB). The Buffett strategy is a great one, but he makes is look considerably easier given the amounts he gets to play with. For us regular folk it is much hard, but the concepts are similar.

@Moss, ETFs are something I like too, but not too much. You can get burnt with them as well, so due diligence is still necessary. Almost my entire portfolio is indivdual stocks at the moment and I wish I had the cash to triple if not more, my investments. I don't mind individual stocks if they meet most of my criteria and all of them are long term plays.

The best advice I was given was to only look at my portfolio maybe once every 2-4 months. Always need to keep emotion out of it.
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acowboys62


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

willy_law wrote:
Do any of you guys use the contrarian approach? Within 2 or 3 years, I plan on investing, probably once I get my first internship I will. The contrarian approach intrigues me but it may be too big of risk?

has anyone used it and succeded with it?

Personally I think it is very stupid. I can only recall a number of people being effective with it, one being Paulson hitting on the real estate crash and that is only becasue I am reading "The Greatest Trade Ever".

You'd be much better off just investing for long term growth and occassionally placing a short/put trade if you really have strong feelings that a "contradicint" event is going to happen.
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Mossburg


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
@Moss, ETFs are something I like too, but not too much. You can get burnt with them as well, so due diligence is still necessary.


Of course, especially if you're buying triple levered short financial sector at the wrong time. Laughing The difference is sectors pretty much always recover if you can hold your investment for a long time, where as an individual company can be worthless overnight.

I just prefer to invest in an entire portfolio rather than put my own together. Seeing as how a lot of research shows that the vast majority of funds cannot outperform the SP500, and I know nothing compared to the super educated people running them, then it's a lot easier to just buy SPY or IVV or SH.
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yayareaninerfan


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mossburg wrote:
Quote:
@Moss, ETFs are something I like too, but not too much. You can get burnt with them as well, so due diligence is still necessary.


Of course, especially if you're buying triple levered short financial sector at the wrong time. Laughing The difference is sectors pretty much always recover if you can hold your investment for a long time, where as an individual company can be worthless overnight.

I just prefer to invest in an entire portfolio rather than put my own together. Seeing as how a lot of research shows that the vast majority of funds cannot outperform the SP500, and I know nothing compared to the super educated people running them, then it's a lot easier to just buy SPY or IVV or SH.


ETF's are good for certain situations but as a younger person I would generally stick with stocks or heavily levered ETF's. When you are young you want to take risks because you will have time to earn it back, obviously not the case if you are close to retiring.

Derivatives can be a very good thing if used properly. They can inject money into market sectors with reduced exposure and risk but the problem is when you run into people who are playing with so much money that they control the market i.e. "The London Whale"

Also the idea that the stock market is all an "insider's game" is pretty ridiculous. Is there insider trading? Yes. Was FB effected by the downgrade by its 3 major valuations? Absolutely. But to say the majority of the market is run this way is ludicrous. You just have to know what to look for, have set criteria, and not let emotions get in between your trades.
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Mossburg


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
ETF's are good for certain situations but as a younger person I would generally stick with stocks or heavily levered ETF's. When you are young you want to take risks because you will have time to earn it back, obviously not the case if you are close to retiring.


I never understood this way of thinking. Why do you have to take risks when you're younger? Why do you have to take unnecessary risks ever? Just because you have time to earn it back doesn't mean you will. I went to school with someone who got burned hard with this exact mentality. I rather get steady returns throughout.

Quote:
Also the idea that the stock market is all an "insider's game" is pretty ridiculous. Is there insider trading? Yes. Was FB effected by the downgrade by its 3 major valuations? Absolutely. But to say the majority of the market is run this way is ludicrous. You just have to know what to look for, have set criteria, and not let emotions get in between your trades.


The point I am making is when you're sitting in an individual company's stock, you are exposed to insider meddling, no matter how good your research is. FB tanked but the market still did well on some of those days. I don't know nearly enough to construct a massive portfolio to protect me from all kinds of risk. I just read (not just here) a lot of people who want to get into investing and want to buy stock to learn, which IMO is stupid. Buy ETFs, especially if you're investing what you'd consider a sizable amount of your money, and if you feel like you know enough to put together your own portfolio, then do that. But nobody who is learning about investing should buy individual stocks.
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Mossburg


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, the folks on here who have their portfolio's and don't mind answering this. Has your portfolio outperformed SP500 in the duration you've held it?
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Gmen


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put 5K into stocks a few months ago. I've made a whopping -11.94% as of today. Of course my best performing stock, DMD, is the one that I put the least money into. Netflix and PAAS are two stocks that are really killing me. One is down 45%, the other 38% from the time I bought them. But I'm determined not to take a loss, at my own peril.

My plan is to hold onto all of my stocks for over a year, so I get taxed less. At which point I'm probably going to sell all of them, and do some day trading with that 5K (probably 4K by then Laughing ). Dump all 5K into one stock I'm confident in. Say it goes up two percent in that week. ($5000 - $7 buy fee - $7 sell) * .02% gain * .75% after tax = $75. Basically I'll try to use that 5K to pay for all my lunches in that year.
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willy_law


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
I put 5K into stocks a few months ago. I've made a whopping -11.94% as of today. Of course my best performing stock, DMD, is the one that I put the least money into. Netflix and PAAS are two stocks that are really killing me. One is down 45%, the other 38% from the time I bought them. But I'm determined not to take a loss, at my own peril.

My plan is to hold onto all of my stocks for over a year, so I get taxed less. At which point I'm probably going to sell all of them, and do some day trading with that 5K (probably 4K by then Laughing ). Dump all 5K into one stock I'm confident in. Say it goes up two percent in that week. ($5000 - $7 buy fee - $7 sell) * .02% gain * .75% after tax = $75. Basically I'll try to use that 5K to pay for all my lunches in that year.


Why would you invest in Netflix? With the rise of Redbox and Hulu, Netflix is def losing a lot of its power
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