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Aaron Kampman
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onemoreyearfor4


Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Posts: 964
Location: Deerfield, IL
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

goombar2 wrote:
"Kampmann is a perfect fit for the packers much like a hard nosed packer that was named Ray Nitschke"*

Seriously, how am I suppose to take this statement? Ray was one of the best linebackers to ever suit up ever. He's a hall of famer.

Kampy is a stop gap player. For his whole career he has 13.5 sacks in 4 years. The only way Kampy gets into the HOF is to pay like the rest of us schmucks.

I could see someone comparing Reggie White as the DL equavalent of Ray Nitschke, but Kampy? KGB (the guy everyone makes fun of here) has had more sacks in a season than Kampy has had in his career.


He was talking about thier style of play which was actually a correct statement.
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goombar2


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 650
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray's style of play is simular to Kampy's? In what way? A better comparison is to John Jurkevich.
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stallyns


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

goombar2 wrote:
Would someone please explain to me why you would pay Kampy millions of dollars? Speak slowly cause maybe I'm missing something here of I'm retarded.

Kampy started his career in 2002 and played 12 games. he had a whooping 23 tackles with 1 sack. Ok, he was a rookie. In his second season he had 30 tackles in 12 games and 2 sacks. Again, really poor numbers. In his 3rd season he played in every game and had 68 tackles and 5 sacks. And of course last year stats are 82 tackles with 6.5 sacks.

So for his whole career Kampy has 203 tackles and 13.5 sacks.

Let's get real here, the guy is in his 4th season, this is really the best you can expect from Kampy. Now how much is that worth? Honestly, I think it's worth the veteran's minimum. The gaul that this guy could ask for a raise!

Now look at KGB's stats. I have a link to espn right here.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=2280

Notice he doesn't have a season of 82 tackles? It's normally the high 40's low 50's...

There's a reason for this, Kampy was weak against the run and teams wanted to run at him. This is where we need an upgrade something bad.

the only stat that DL are supposed to get are sacks
82 tackles for a lineman is phenomenal (i think that was second or third highest for a DE)
Kampman was constantly in the face of the quarterback ast year
Before last season I was sure the Packer's weren't going to bring him back and didn't care either
KGB is far weaker against the run then Kampman
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goombar2


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 650
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then why are the teams running to Kampy's side? I really think people have built Kampy up to a point that he's just not. I think it has to do with all this media talk about "his motor"...

It's just that when people talk about Kampy they never talk about his stats. And maybe it's true, not everything can come down to stats. Al Harris is a good example of this. Teams refused to throw in his direction so he didn't have a lot of tackles, passes defended, or ints.

But this isn't the case with Kampy. Teams are going to his side, and double what they are going to KGB's side. His sack rate is horrible, he needs at least 10 a year for the green backs he wants and we will never get that from him.

I just wouldn't pay Kampy a big salary for what we can expect. 6-7 sacks the next 3 years and a lot of tackles after the RB has gained 3-4 yards at least. In fact, it's better if GB lets some team pay him millions and he depletes someone else's cap numbers.
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msmre


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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Location: Chicago, IL
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

goombar2 wrote:


But this isn't the case with Kampy. Teams are going to his side, and double what they are going to KGB's side.


Do you have a source? My perception is that teams run at KGB non-stop. That is what my TiVo told me as well.
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INGADOWETRUST


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 208
Location: Green Bay, WI
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KGB gets blown off of the ball constantly. Kamp is by far better than KGB as an every down de. In this scheme he will get better. Draft Mario and use Mont. and KGB as situational/rotating players to keep line fresh.
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goombar2


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 650
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My source would be the stats... KGB has 40-50 tackles, Kampy has between 80-100...

Your Tivo should show this...
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msmre


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

goombar2 wrote:
My source would be the stats... KGB has 40-50 tackles, Kampy has between 80-100...

Your Tivo should show this...


I thought this to be a funny statement since you are allowed to move around to make tackles. I would suggest that if you say that statistics can not tell you everything, then you can not say that they run at Kampman more because he has more tackles.

Think about this a little more. How about KGB does not make plays in the running game regardless of where they are whereas Kampman makes the tackles.

My TiVo shows me a lot of smart a$$ comments that I will keep to myself, but it does also show me that you did not watch the games too closely.
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goombar2


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 650
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, smart [inappropriate/removed] comments aside, a DE is not suppose to be running around the field making tackles all over. That's more the job of a linebacker and maybe a safety...

A DE has to make a push toward a Qb (try to sack the Qb or knock a ball down on passing plays), create a pocket or flank and hold off the flank in case of a reverse or if the ball is run to his side make the tackle at the line of scrimmage.

But I know for a clever guy with Tivo this isn't enough... So let's look at a comparison analysis with pro-bowlers.

Name Tackles Sacks
Peppers 50 10.5
Strahan 81 11.5
Umenyioru 70 14.5

Freeney 34 11
Burgess 51 16
Vanden Bosch 65 21.5
Taylor 74 12
KGB 51 8
*Kampy 80-100 6.5

*Denotes player was never allowed near a pro-bowl...

Which one of these bums doesn't belong?
The closest players in tackles to Kampy are Strahan and Umenyioru but they have more sacks. Notice, not a single guy on this list wants to talk about having a 100 tackle season...

And yet everyone one of these players is twice the player Kampy is yet they aren't running all around accumulating 80-100 tackle seasons and only getting 6.5 sacks, in fact most have near double the sacks of Kampy.

Furthermore, if Kampy is so devestating and could hold his own on the line he'd have more sacks. But the truth is, if you actually watch the games you Tivo'ed you'd see Kampy for what he is... A stop gap that teams love to run on.
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favre 4 prezz


Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 60
Location: Eau Claire, Wisconsin
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if kampman is resigned i think the packers will take Hawk and then Manny Lawson second round if he is still available. That would be a good situation
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msmre


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a guestion for you Goomba.

I would say that KGB doesn't belong. He has fewer sacks AND fewer tackles.

Now let's think about what a DE is supposed to do. How about keep outside contain, read pass to run, and then PURSUIT. In that order.

I am not suggesting that he has tons of sacks, but rather that is silly to say that he invites teams to run on them and is more easilt run upon because of his number of tackles.
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goombar2


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 650
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Here is a guestion for you Goomba.

I would say that KGB doesn't belong. He has fewer sacks AND fewer tackles."

This isn't a question, it's a statement and dead wrong. Again, this was an off year for KGB, most years he has double digit sacks, and his tackles are well within the range of pro bowlers, hence why he's been to the pro bowl. KGB gets the double teams, so other teams see him as the risky player also. But if you look carefully, Kampy has the least amount of sacks, but far and away the most tackles. So something wierd is going on here.

"I am not suggesting that he has tons of sacks, but rather that is silly to say that he invites teams to run on them and is more easilt run upon because of his number of tackles."

You could suggest anything you want, whether it would be true is another matter. His sack total is poor to pathetic. And silly to say that teams run on him when he has 80-100 tackles? You want to claim all those tackles are because he's running to the opposite side of the field to get the ones KGB can't make? Well, then he's really not containing his side is he?

Now which one of us is being silly? The reason he has so many tackles is because teams are exploiting the fact that he's undersized, has short arm reach, and gets very little push up field. This allows teams to exploit the edge.
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msmre


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are right, he is undersized at 6'4" 280 lbs. Right, and KGB is just the right size at 240 lbs?

This was supposed to be KGB's year. It was a defense that was specifically suited to him, yet he had an "off year". No, he is overrated.

My question is this (and it will be a question), if you such an expert on DE, are DE supposed to stay on their side of the LOS and simply wait for someone to run to their side?

Since it was a rhetorical question, I will answer it for you. No, the non-playside DE, stays as deep as the deepest backfield player and contains until he sees the ball. Then pursues.

I have yet to hear you talk about anything substantive besides decrying his sack totals out of one side of your mouth and that he has TOO MANY tackles out of the other.

Now let's discuss where your leap from Al Harris is good and no one throws to his side to Kampman is bad and everyone runs to his side goes wrong. Imbedded into each pass play is the progression of WR by the QB, in smaller words, he has a choice of to whom to throw the ball. If Harris is on, the guy is not open and he tosses it Carroll way. Now on a running play, the call is made [most running plays by design go to Kampman's side (It is called the power side, see Football 101)]. There is not an option by the RB to have someone else get the ball and go to the other side. Nor does his presence alone cause an audible.

If you want to get into a pissing contest about who knows more about football, I invite it, but since you are just going to move on with your fewer tackles indicates better play rhetoric, I am not sure logic and knowledge would get me anywhere.
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Packerraymond


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aaron Kampman is a good player, not great, not bad just good. He is not worth more then 2 million a year, DE's aren't supposed to get tackles that job is for the linebackers, he's supposed to get to the QB and he just doesn't do that as much as I would like. Even if we sign him it should be Mario in round 1 or Kiwi in round 2. A four DE rotation of Montgumery, KGB, Mario or Kiwi and Kampman would keep our DE's fresh for ther whole game.

By the way, the way most of you describe Kamp and bash KGB, well they both work hard and have non stop motors so if KGB suck then Kampman does too. KGB was drafted 2 rounds later then Kampman and is a better player then he is, just imagine Mario and KGB coming off the end, wow that would be awesome!
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goombar2


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 650
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You make no sense to me... And I can't be the only one. Again, and even you stated it earlier, the DE is SUPPOSE to stay put for containment. If he doesn't expect a lot of reverses to be run.

Then you go on to play the foootball 101 game BS trying to insult me, I guess you're feeling foolish that you're gettin' schooled... Here's some football 101, the teams are running on Kampmann to the tune of 80-100 tackles. We are ranked 23rd against the run. Do the math... He can't be making those tackles behind the line of scrimmage or at the line of scrimmage. If he was our defensive ranking against the run would be a lot higher.

If Kampy is so quick as you'd like to believe he'd be getting a ton of tackles behind the line of scrimmage. Truth is he's getting pushed back 3-4 yards but makes the tackles most times. And yes, I think Kampy's a little undersized at 280 for his position and his height and arm reach should be longer. Especially considering the wieght we give up on the other side with KGB...

It would really help out if the Pack had a stud at DE at around 300 lbs with good reach to take the double off KGB. Much like Reggie when he played with Sean Jones.

As far as KGB, he's signed and he has been to pro bowl(s). All players have an off season, and I'd be willing to grant him one... But based on his whole career, I think he deserves it. You'd rather go with a player that had a below average season that was his best thus far and throw money at him. Sorry if I don't bow down to your football knowledge.

And your Al Harris mixed with Kampy statement to refute what I'm saying... You lost me completely... So then even you realize it and say, well most plays are just designed to go at Kampy... What a load of crap. Plays are designed to create mismatches and to exploit weaknesses. Hence, why Kampy has so many tackles...

As far as your knowledge and logic and where you can take a pee, try the bathroom...
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