Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Mariners sign OF/DH Nelson Cruz (4/58M)
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Baseball
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
NewAge


Joined: 01 Sep 2014
Posts: 3569
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:49 am    Post subject: Mariners sign OF/DH Nelson Cruz (4/58M) Reply with quote

@Enrique_Rojas1: Nelson Cruz and #Mariners agree 4 years/$57 million, report dominican newsspaper @ElCaribeRD > http://t.co/6eKuGcUumQ
_________________


Last edited by NewAge on Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:23 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Eagles27


Moderator
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 31268
Location: Vancouver, BC
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 4th year is terrible, but at least they've got this inevitable move out of the way. At least now we should hopefully have a bit more leverage in trade talks.

Hopefully adding the RH power that the FO so desperately desired allows us to cast a wider net when looking for another outfielder. I wouldn't mind buying low on Alex Rios. Jayson Werth would be a good fit if the Nats look to deal him as well.
_________________

#JDI


Last edited by Eagles27 on Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:07 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ramssuperbowl99


Joined: 15 Apr 2005
Posts: 24623
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is worse than the Cuddyer signing (see how I brought the Mets in where they didn't belong?). Substantially worse.
_________________

Title Town USA wrote:
Don't question Rams. He runs this place. He is The Man.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
playmaker8267


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 9440
Location: University of New Hampshire
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerry Crasnick is confirming it.

Possible lineup:
CF Austin Jackson R
LF Dustin Ackley L
2B Robinson Cano L
DH Nelson Cruz R
3B Kyle Seager L
RF Michael Saunders L
1B Logan Morrison L
SS Brad Miller L/Chris Taylor R
C Mike Zunino R

With all those LHH, you have to wonder if the Mariners were interested in trading for Cespedes before signing Cruz.
_________________

Bruins // Patriots // Red Sox // Chelsea
#JDI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Eagles27


Moderator
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 31268
Location: Vancouver, BC
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

playmaker8267 wrote:
With all those LHH, you have to wonder if the Mariners were interested in trading for Cespedes before signing Cruz.

Cespedes didn't really make much sense for the M's if the price was going to be Iwakuma. We have no SP depth.
_________________

#JDI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hrubes20


Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 9908
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand the need for the RH bat, but man, 4 years seems brutal for a guy like Cruz. He was great offensively last year, but had a high of 1.5 fWAR the previous 3 seasons. At least the AAV seems very reasonable. But to make it worse, the M's give up the #20 overall pick as well.
_________________


Big thanks to Big_Palooka on the sig!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NewAge


Joined: 01 Sep 2014
Posts: 3569
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

playmaker8267 wrote:
Jerry Crasnick is confirming it.

Possible lineup:
CF Austin Jackson R
LF Dustin Ackley L
2B Robinson Cano L
DH Nelson Cruz R
3B Kyle Seager L
RF Michael Saunders L
1B Logan Morrison L
SS Brad Miller L/Chris Taylor R
C Mike Zunino R

With all those LHH, you have to wonder if the Mariners were interested in trading for Cespedes before signing Cruz.

Now imagine if they trade, say, Taijuan Walker for Justin Upton and Evan Gattis and then trade away Saunders and Miller for arms.

1. CF Austin Jackson
2. 3B Kyle Seager
3. 2B Robinson Cano
4. DH Nelson Cruz
5. RF Justin Upton
6. 1B Evan Gattis
7. LF Dustin Ackley
8. C Mike Zunino
9. SS Chris Taylor
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CWood21


Moderator
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 36232
Location: 'Merica
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hrubes20 wrote:
I understand the need for the RH bat, but man, 4 years seems brutal for a guy like Cruz. He was great offensively last year, but had a high of 1.5 fWAR the previous 3 seasons. At least the AAV seems very reasonable. But to make it worse, the M's give up the #20 overall pick as well.


My thoughts as well. At this point, he's fallen off the face of the earth defensively and is limited to LF/DH, with most of his innings as a DH. Prior to this year, he was under 2 WAR for the last three years. His value is almost completely derived from his bat at this point, and it's highly unlikely he sniffs anywhere near the 4 WAR he posted last year. And on top of that, the Mariners have to give up the #20 pick. Yuck.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
CWood21


Moderator
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 36232
Location: 'Merica
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ramssuperbowl99 wrote:
This is worse than the Cuddyer signing (see how I brought the Mets in where they didn't belong?). Substantially worse.


How so? I'm guessing the number of years the Mariners were willing to commit to him? Cruz is probably safer, but Cuddyer offers more upside with the bat.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
NewAge


Joined: 01 Sep 2014
Posts: 3569
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWood21 wrote:
ramssuperbowl99 wrote:
This is worse than the Cuddyer signing (see how I brought the Mets in where they didn't belong?). Substantially worse.


How so? I'm guessing the number of years the Mariners were willing to commit to him? Cruz is probably safer, but Cuddyer offers more upside with the bat.

I'd take Cuddyer for two years (and a lower AAV) over Cruz for four years. In addition to being cheaper, Cuddyer has a higher wRC+ than Cruz in 3 of the past 4 seasons. In terms of money and years, Cuddyer's deal stacks up well against the other deals given out to bat-only free agents this year.

Victor Martinez (36): 4 years, $68 million
Nelson Cruz (34): 4 years, $57 million
Billy Butler (28): 3 years, $30 million
Michael Cuddyer (36): 2 years, $21 million
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CWood21


Moderator
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Posts: 36232
Location: 'Merica
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NewAge wrote:
I'd take Cuddyer for two years (and a lower AAV) over Cruz for four years. In addition to being cheaper, Cuddyer has a higher wRC+ than Cruz in 3 of the past 4 seasons. In terms of money and years, Cuddyer's deal stacks up well against the other deals given out to bat-only free agents this year.

Victor Martinez (36): 4 years, $68 million
Nelson Cruz (34): 4 years, $57 million
Billy Butler (28): 3 years, $30 million
Michael Cuddyer (36): 2 years, $21 million


Again, all things being equal I would agree. However, Cruz has been the pillar of health playing 159 games in two of the last three seasons and the only year he didn't was when he was serving the PED suspension. Cuddyer hasn't amassed over 110 games in the last three season but once. If I thought Cuddyer could stay healthy, I would absolutely take him over Cruz but I'm not even confident that he can play 100 games.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
NewAge


Joined: 01 Sep 2014
Posts: 3569
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CWood21 wrote:
NewAge wrote:
I'd take Cuddyer for two years (and a lower AAV) over Cruz for four years. In addition to being cheaper, Cuddyer has a higher wRC+ than Cruz in 3 of the past 4 seasons. In terms of money and years, Cuddyer's deal stacks up well against the other deals given out to bat-only free agents this year.

Victor Martinez (36): 4 years, $68 million
Nelson Cruz (34): 4 years, $57 million
Billy Butler (28): 3 years, $30 million
Michael Cuddyer (36): 2 years, $21 million


Again, all things being equal I would agree. However, Cruz has been the pillar of health playing 159 games in two of the last three seasons and the only year he didn't was when he was serving the PED suspension. Cuddyer hasn't amassed over 110 games in the last three season but once. If I thought Cuddyer could stay healthy, I would absolutely take him over Cruz but I'm not even confident that he can play 100 games.

That's absolutely true, but you only need him to hold up for two years, not four. As healthy as Cruz may have been in the past, it's hard to guarantee that continues as he ages into his late 30s. Cuddyer used to be relatively durable too.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JammerHammer21


Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 27853
Location: Anywhere
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NewAge wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
NewAge wrote:
I'd take Cuddyer for two years (and a lower AAV) over Cruz for four years. In addition to being cheaper, Cuddyer has a higher wRC+ than Cruz in 3 of the past 4 seasons. In terms of money and years, Cuddyer's deal stacks up well against the other deals given out to bat-only free agents this year.

Victor Martinez (36): 4 years, $68 million
Nelson Cruz (34): 4 years, $57 million
Billy Butler (28): 3 years, $30 million
Michael Cuddyer (36): 2 years, $21 million


Again, all things being equal I would agree. However, Cruz has been the pillar of health playing 159 games in two of the last three seasons and the only year he didn't was when he was serving the PED suspension. Cuddyer hasn't amassed over 110 games in the last three season but once. If I thought Cuddyer could stay healthy, I would absolutely take him over Cruz but I'm not even confident that he can play 100 games.

That's absolutely true, but you only need him to hold up for two years, not four. As healthy as Cruz may have been in the past, it's hard to guarantee that continues as he ages into his late 30s. Cuddyer used to be relatively durable too.


Yeah, but Cuddyer also can't DH. And he no longer plays at Coors, which definitely inflated his numbers. Both deals suck, but the Mets gave up a first for two years of a guy who can't stay healthy and can't DH. That's really not much better than paying for Cruz.
_________________

Bohlmann20 (On The 95 Cleveland Browns Staff) wrote:
Lombardi - Isn't that the guy the trophy is named after? If so, top 3 coach of all time.

#JDI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mesa_Titan


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 55988
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not super happy about the 3rd and 4th years, but it'll probably be OK for 1-2 years...
_________________

mission27 wrote:
Mesa_Titan is God.

#JDI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
NewAge


Joined: 01 Sep 2014
Posts: 3569
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JammerHammer21 wrote:
NewAge wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
NewAge wrote:
I'd take Cuddyer for two years (and a lower AAV) over Cruz for four years. In addition to being cheaper, Cuddyer has a higher wRC+ than Cruz in 3 of the past 4 seasons. In terms of money and years, Cuddyer's deal stacks up well against the other deals given out to bat-only free agents this year.

Victor Martinez (36): 4 years, $68 million
Nelson Cruz (34): 4 years, $57 million
Billy Butler (28): 3 years, $30 million
Michael Cuddyer (36): 2 years, $21 million


Again, all things being equal I would agree. However, Cruz has been the pillar of health playing 159 games in two of the last three seasons and the only year he didn't was when he was serving the PED suspension. Cuddyer hasn't amassed over 110 games in the last three season but once. If I thought Cuddyer could stay healthy, I would absolutely take him over Cruz but I'm not even confident that he can play 100 games.

That's absolutely true, but you only need him to hold up for two years, not four. As healthy as Cruz may have been in the past, it's hard to guarantee that continues as he ages into his late 30s. Cuddyer used to be relatively durable too.


Yeah, but Cuddyer also can't DH. And he no longer plays at Coors, which definitely inflated his numbers. Both deals suck, but the Mets gave up a first for two years of a guy who can't stay healthy and can't DH. That's really not much better than paying for Cruz.

And what would have been the case if we signed Cruz? We'd be giving up a first for four years at an elevated rate of a guy who can't DH and will be 37 by the end of the deal. I'd take giving up a first for two years of a guy at a lower rate who can't DH and will be 37 by the end of the deal. Not to mention, Cuddyer is actually an above average baserunner while Cruz is below. The difference there could be as much as around half a win.

The difference in value between four years of Nelson Cruz and two years of Michael Cuddyer is a lot less than $37 million.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Baseball All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group