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Was Rosenfels the "Chilly Has No Clue" Source?
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purpleplunder


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:29 pm    Post subject: Was Rosenfels the "Chilly Has No Clue" Source? Reply with quote

This is why Sage is the source:
1)Sage Rosenfels and Jason Cole have a longstanding relationship. Rosenfels appears to be the only Viking Jason Cole has any contact with. When Sage Rosenfels played for the Miami Dolphins for five years, Jason Cole was a writer for the Miami Herald (for fifteen years.) During that time Cole did an in depth story on Rosenfels where he had extensive communication with Sage and his dad Robert. Here is a link to the story:
http://www.miamidolphins.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3271

Also, Rosenfels talked with Jason Cole for an interview Yahoo published 3 weeks ago:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-rosenfelsfavre072809
The story was about Favre's decision to retire. This is likely when they talked about what Favre thought of Childress. Whether or not Rosenfels gave Cole permission to reprint what he said is anybody's guess. Favre says he talked to Rosenfels both before and after he decided to come to MN:
http://www.sbnation.com/2010/8/18/1630063/brett-favre-return-vikings-qb-tarvaris-jackson

2)When Sage was in Houston for three years, he was coached by Gary Kubiak, who does in fact understand the West Coast Offense better than Childress. Kubiak was a quarterback in the NFL. Kubiak was Steve Young's quarterbacks coach in San Francisco in the original West Coast Offense, and he was Mike Shanahan's offensive coordinator for 10 years in Denver (during that time they won 2 superbowls.) Shanahan was offensive coordinator in the original West coast offense under George Seifert with Steve Young as QB. In 2006, a survey of 361 NFL players found Mike Shanahan to be the NFL's best offensive mind:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/players/10/31/poll.1031/index.html
and you can bet Kubiak knows everything Shanahan does.

3) Six days ago Rosenfels did an interview with Judd Zulgad for the Star Tribune. This is what the Star Tribune wrote:
"Rosenfels admits Texans coach Gary Kubiak has a very different approach than Vikings coach Brad Childress.
"I feel like I do know where all the bones are buried (in this offense) this year compared to last," Rosenfels said. "You understand where maybe your read is one, two and three but based on the coverages the one is generally not there so you can quickly get to two and three. I think that's what I have learned from spending a year in it, and I've learned from watching Brett.""

http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/2010/aug/13/bc-fbn-vikings-rosenfelsms-_-sports-600-words/?spor ts&nfl

compare that with what was written about Childress in the Yahoo article:
"“He learned a bunch of plays from watching Andy Reid install them, but he doesn’t know why they work or don’t work." (this part has now been redacted from the article.)
Childress did in fact not call the plays in Philadelphia and thus did in fact just watch Reid install them not knowing why they worked or didn't work.


4)Childress lied to Rosenfels when he recruited him. The Vikings gave him 3 million dollars, told him he would be the starter and all he had to do was beat out Tarvaris Jackson (and how hard is that?). When Rosenfels arrives in MN he learns that TJack is Childress' pet and they were trying to get "Iron Man" Brett Favre out of retirement. In the Yahoo article it says this about lying to the media about Hutch, Longwell, and Allen's trip to Mississippi:
"Chilly can’t even tell the truth about that,” the player said. “I mean, how ridiculous is that? What’s the big deal that he has to lie? Worse, he has to tell other guys to lie for him?”"

5)Brett Favre spent the first 6 years of his Green Bay career with Mike Holmgren. Holmgren was Bill Walsh and Joe Montana's offensive coordinator in the original West Coast Offense (before Shanahan.) If anybody know why things work or don't work in the West Coast Offense, it is Holmgren. Childress learned the West Coast Offense from Andy Reid who learned it from Holmgren. Favre likely does feel this way, and when Favre and Rosenfels talk they very likely mostly talk about how their old coaches were better.


Can anybody else see why they are looking to trade Rosenfels? Rosenfels is done with playing for the Vikings. He feels he got a raw deal. This is all speculation. I could be wrong. I have no proof, so take it with a grain of salt


Last edited by purpleplunder on Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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purpleplunder


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It should also be noted that Favre and Rosenfels are not the only quarterbacks who didn't see eye to eye with Childress. Brad Johnson, Gus Frerotte, and Kelly Holcomb also all came out later and said their insight was disregarded and they were not allowed to audible at the line of scrimmage.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It all make sense now. Rosenfels is the one trying to create the schism. How funny, I love conspiracy theories, this could be plausible. Laughing
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Was Sage Rosenfels the "Chilly Has No Clue" So Reply with quote

purpleplunder wrote:
4)Childress lied to Rosenfels when he recruited him.

that one's a little strong.

Childress said the two QB's would compete for the starting role and when he didn't like the progress of either one, he looked at another option, Favre.

can't blame him for that, it worked out pretty well.




but hey. nicely speculated theory and documented post!
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

purpleplunder wrote:
It should also be noted that Favre and Rosenfels are not the only quarterbacks who didn't see eye to eye with Childress. Brad Johnson, Gus Frerotte, and Kelly Holcomb also all came out later and said their insight was disregarded and they were not allowed to audible at the line of scrimmage.


Heck I wouldnt let those QBs audible at the LOS of scrimmage either. Laughing
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purpleplunder


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
It all make sense now. Rosenfels is the one trying to create the schism. How funny, I love conspiracy theories, this could be plausible. Laughing


Well it's highly unlikely that Rosenfels was lying about the situation. Here's what espn wrote today:
"Brad Childress talks about luring back Brett Favre:
How he came to the decision to send a few players down to Hattiesburg to convince Brett Favre to comeback:

"Well this is a big horse-sense type of business, if you will. I mean somewhere you look at the facts, you know what you have done and the conversations that you have had. Instincts are huge and my best sense was that was what it was going to take. Brett was a huge part of our success last year. We wanted them back and those guys were tired of texting or talking. Should you have to do that? No. That is what it took, by any means necessary. I don't know if there are any bylaws, and I said yesterday, when the terrain varies you have got to go with the terrain. We have got a great owner and he said, 'Is that what we need to do?' That is what we needed to do and those three guys were probably the tightest with him. They didn't balk at all. They were game on.""

http://espn.go.com/espn/page2/index?id=5480285

So it's pretty obvious Favre doesn't like Childress.

Also, let's not forget this:
"Vikings coach Brad Childress and offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell appeared to have separate sideline spats with quarterback Sage Rosenfels during the first half of Saturday night's 28-7 opening exhibition victory over the St. Louis Rams.

So, what was up with the two coaches and the quarterback who passed for 310 yards and three touchdowns?

"I probably talk to you (media members) more harshly than I talk to the quarterback," Childress said. "It may have seemed that way. Just talking to the quarterback, over-communicating clarity. Sometimes you have to over-communicate clarity. Sometimes, you have to elevate."

Rosenfels downplayed the interaction with his coaches, saying: "I think, early on, we were getting all those penalties. (The Vikings had seven first-half penalties.) We were trying to get that tempo going. It was nothing serious. The quarterback is responsible. You're not responsible for all the penalties, but you are responsible for the demeanor of the team and the way guys get up to the ball and get things going. That's what we were talking about."

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_15783494

It's pretty obvious Rosenfels is angry.

and lastly:
"According to sources, Favre dislikes that Childress seldom discusses the game plan with him during the week, and does not encourage the quarterback to offer suggestions as to which plays he feels most comfortable calling in certain situations. When Favre changes the play at the line of scrimmage — using his film study and experience — Childress bristles, even when the audible Favre calls works perfectly."
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4767366


Last edited by purpleplunder on Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:11 pm; edited 2 times in total
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

purpleplunder wrote:
It's pretty obvious Rosenfels is angry.

so what?

our season does not revolve around his personal feelings. LOTS of NFL players are angry with their coaches or team owners for not getting enough playing time or for other reasons.

hey Sage, want to be the Vikings' starting QB? go earn it. and throwing for 300+ yards and 3 TD's vs the Rams' 2nd and 3rd string D's doesn't mean much.

i mean, the Ram's 1st strong D is horrible, and these guys couldn't even make that squad.
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purpleplunder


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Was Sage Rosenfels the "Chilly Has No Clue" So Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
purpleplunder wrote:
4)Childress lied to Rosenfels when he recruited him.

that one's a little strong.

Childress said the two QB's would compete for the starting role and when he didn't like the progress of either one, he looked at another option, Favre.

can't blame him for that, it worked out pretty well.




but hey. nicely speculated theory and documented post!


When you trade a 4th round pick for a player, give them a 2 yr $9 Million contract extension, and put them on a team where the person who mainly started the year before (Gus Frerotte) was gone, what else would Sage Rosenfels think?

Little did he know he would have trouble adapting to Chilly's way, and Childress already had a quarterback that he had hand-picked from the draft, spent several years of long hours on, taught his complete football philosophy to, and staked his coaching reputation on. Kubiak's way was also probably better, so Chilly's way was probably counterintuitive for him.

In the end, even Childress didn't have enough faith in Jackson to lead the team. Childress was on the last year of his contract and he knew if Jackson plays he loses his job (which is why they went after Rosenfels to begin with.) So he lured out a 40 year old quarterback from retirement, who had just had surgery on his throwing arm, missed training camp, and never practiced or played with the team. The Packers and Jets were done with him, and no other team was willing to take a risk on him. Favre himself wasn't sure if he could last another season and was making no promises. We can look back now and say it was a brilliant move because Favre is a HOF qb who had another year in the tank, but at the time it was a huge gamble born out of necessity. At the time Sage wasn't catching on and Jackson couldn't even fill the stands in a playoff game, the Vikings were completely screwed at quarterback and signed Favre out of desperation.

When the source talks about how Brett doesn't trust Childress, it was widely reported last year that Sage doesn't trust Childress as well.


Last edited by purpleplunder on Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Was Sage Rosenfels the "Chilly Has No Clue" So Reply with quote

purpleplunder wrote:
When you trade a 4th round pick for a player, give them a 2 yr $9 Million contract extension, and put them on a team where the person who mainly started the year before (Gus Frerotte) was gone, what else would Sage Rosenfels think?.

again, who cares what Sage thought at the time?

Childress clearly said publicly Rosenfels was being brought in then to compete for the starting role. Sage obviously did not earn it, and by his own admission this year said he hadn't learned the MINN playbook well enough.

players' entire contracts aren't even guaranteed, so why should their starting roles be?

where are you trying to go with this? i'm not sure what larger point you are trying to argue. that the Vikings haven't been good enough, or truthful enough, with Sage Rosenfels? is this really an issue?
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purpleplunder


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Was Sage Rosenfels the "Chilly Has No Clue" So Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
where are you trying to go with this? i'm not sure what larger point you are trying to argue.

Not trying to argue a larger point. All I've tried to do is get into Rosenfel's head and explain why he did what he did when he leaked the story. Ultimately, it was probably an angry rant to a longtime friend of someone who feels his career has been unfairly ruined by Childress. If Sage was in fact the source of the leak, then even he would probably say it was a mistake. It's hard to feel sorry for someone who gets paid that much to ride the bench.

Has Sage been treated unfairly? We don't know because we never got a chance to see him play. When you look at his career, he was mediocre up until he found a fit in the West Coast Offense, and then once he did he has passer ratings of 103.0, 84.8, and 79.5 in 2006, 2007, and 2008 over 19 games Houston. We could have had another Rich Gannon on our hands and we have to take Chilly's word that we didn't. I would be interested to see Favre's take on the Rosenfels and TJack situation should he be asked some day in the future.
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Uncle Buck


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Was Rosenfels the "Chilly Has No Clue" Source? Reply with quote

purpleplunder wrote:
This is why Sage is the source:
1)Sage Rosenfels and Jason Cole have a longstanding relationship. Rosenfels appears to be the only Viking Jason Cole has any contact with. When Sage Rosenfels played for the Miami Dolphins for five years, Jason Cole was a writer for the Miami Herald (for fifteen years.) During that time Cole did an in depth story on Rosenfels where he had extensive communication with Sage and his dad Robert. Here is a link to the story:
http://www.miamidolphins.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3271

Also, Rosenfels talked with Jason Cole for an interview Yahoo published 3 weeks ago:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-rosenfelsfavre072809
The story was about Favre's decision to retire. This is likely when they talked about what Favre thought of Childress. Whether or not Rosenfels gave Cole permission to reprint what he said is anybody's guess. Favre says he talked to Rosenfels both before and after he decided to come to MN:
http://www.sbnation.com/2010/8/18/1630063/brett-favre-return-vikings-qb-tarvaris-jackson

2)When Sage was in Houston for three years, he was coached by Gary Kubiak, who does in fact understand the West Coast Offense better than Childress. Kubiak was a quarterback in the NFL. Kubiak was Steve Young's quarterbacks coach in San Francisco in the original West Coast Offense, and he was Mike Shanahan's offensive coordinator for 10 years in Denver (during that time they won 2 superbowls.) Shanahan was offensive coordinator in the original West coast offense under George Seifert with Steve Young as QB. In 2006, a survey of 361 NFL players found Mike Shanahan to be the NFL's best offensive mind:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/players/10/31/poll.1031/index.html
and you can bet Kubiak knows everything Shanahan does.

3) Six days ago Rosenfels did an interview with Judd Zulgad for the Star Tribune. This is what the Star Tribune wrote:
"Rosenfels admits Texans coach Gary Kubiak has a very different approach than Vikings coach Brad Childress.
"I feel like I do know where all the bones are buried (in this offense) this year compared to last," Rosenfels said. "You understand where maybe your read is one, two and three but based on the coverages the one is generally not there so you can quickly get to two and three. I think that's what I have learned from spending a year in it, and I've learned from watching Brett.""

http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/2010/aug/13/bc-fbn-vikings-rosenfelsms-_-sports-600-words/?spor ts&nfl

compare that with what was written about Childress in the Yahoo article:
"“He learned a bunch of plays from watching Andy Reid install them, but he doesn’t know why they work or don’t work." (this part has now been redacted from the article.)
Childress did in fact not call the plays in Philadelphia and thus did in fact just watch Reid install them not knowing why they worked or didn't work.


4)Childress lied to Rosenfels when he recruited him. The Vikings gave him 3 million dollars, told him he would be the starter and all he had to do was beat out Tarvaris Jackson (and how hard is that?). When Rosenfels arrives in MN he learns that TJack is Childress' pet and they were trying to get "Iron Man" Brett Favre out of retirement. In the Yahoo article it says this about lying to the media about Hutch, Longwell, and Allen's trip to Mississippi:
"Chilly can’t even tell the truth about that,” the player said. “I mean, how ridiculous is that? What’s the big deal that he has to lie? Worse, he has to tell other guys to lie for him?”"

5)Brett Favre spent the first 6 years of his Green Bay career with Mike Holmgren. Holmgren was Bill Walsh and Joe Montana's offensive coordinator in the original West Coast Offense (before Shanahan.) If anybody know why things work or don't work in the West Coast Offense, it is Holmgren. Childress learned the West Coast Offense from Andy Reid who learned it from Holmgren. Favre likely does feel this way, and when Favre and Rosenfels talk they very likely mostly talk about how their old coaches were better.


Can anybody else see why they are looking to trade Rosenfels? Rosenfels is done with playing for the Vikings. He feels he got a raw deal. This is all speculation. I could be wrong. I have no proof, so take it with a grain of salt


Interesting post Purple. I heard something like this from a caller on KFAN radio a co uple days ago, and have been thinking that Rosenfels is probably the guy who "leaked" this information.

I don't think I agree about Chilly not knowing the offense though. He was the offensive coordinator for the Eagles, and they were very successful during his tenure there. Sure, Andy Reid may have called the plays, but it's not like Chilly could have been just hanging around without knowing anything about the offense.

As far as Favre is concerned, he may think he knows more about the offense than Chilly does, but my guess is that he doesn't. Chilly is a pretty intelligent guy.
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milanb


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seriously doubt it was Sage.

If you're a third-string QB who's on the trading block the last thing you want to be doing is yapping to the media. If it got out that he was the one who leaked the story his NFL career would be over.
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purpleplunder


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

milanb wrote:
I seriously doubt it was Sage.

The only thing is that if you go back and look at all of Jason Cole's articles over the past few years, the only Viking that has ever talked to him is Sage (at least that's the only Viking I could find he ever quoted in an article, though he quoted Jared Allen's agent about Jared Allen once or twice.) And his relationship with Sage goes way back. Also, Sage has a reason for saying everything that was said. Sage and Favre also have reportedly had a pretty good relationship all considering. Have to ever called your boss an idiot or jerk?
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

milanb wrote:
I seriously doubt it was Sage.

If you're a third-string QB who's on the trading block the last thing you want to be doing is yapping to the media. If it got out that he was the one who leaked the story his NFL career would be over.


I wouldnt say that. His Viking career yes, would be over. But backup QB is an important position and Rosenfels would probably have quite a bit of interest. I think the Eagles would be a good fit for him as well. Knows the offense, Vick is a horrible backup QB.
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purpleplunder


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose Cole does write a lot of stories with anonymous sources. It is possible that he has a relationship with another player that always stayed unnamed.
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