Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Anthony Munoz Vs. Jonathan Ogden
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL Comparisons
View previous topic :: View next topic  

If you could only choose one...
Jonathan Ogden
23%
 23%  [ 20 ]
Anthony Munoz
76%
 76%  [ 66 ]
Total Votes : 86

Author Message
Calvert28


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 16734
Location: Adopt a Player: McGee
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WizardHawk wrote:
I put Munoz down in the Most Dominating Player Ever thread so pretty obvious I'm going with him here.


I disagree with this. I agree he is arguably the greatest LT ever. But there were others equally dominating. None more so then Rice or Hutson.
_________________

Sciz wrote:
The sarcastic comments are getting old. We already dislike you. Don't make it worse.
LIES!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MikeyBaltimore


Joined: 09 Jan 2008
Posts: 4820
Location: BuckRock on the fashionable sig
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaddHatter wrote:
I'd be interested to hear the case of the 8 people that voted for Ogden as to why they felt he was the better LT


And I'd like to hear the case of the rest who voted for Munoz as to why they felt he was the better LT.
_________________


I think, really, the Jolly Roger is the appropriate course of action.

Baltimore Orioles Win Tracker: 2
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 30050
Location: Greenvillain, NC
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeyBaltimore wrote:
MaddHatter wrote:
I'd be interested to hear the case of the 8 people that voted for Ogden as to why they felt he was the better LT


And I'd like to hear the case of the rest who voted for Munoz as to why they felt he was the better LT.


I think the people voting for Munoz have stated their reasons a lot more readily than any of the 12 voting for Ogden. Matter of fact, I don't see a single post by anyone in favor of Ogden. If you voted for him, care to take a crack at it? Because, the way I am seeing it right now, it's 12 silent Ravens fans vs the rest of the NFLs fanbase. Stand up and represent!
_________________

CK on the sig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mitchconnor


Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 1131
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ogden was awesome, but Munoz is the greatest OT in recent NFL history, and a strong candidate for best ever. Definitely Munoz.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GaTechRavens


Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 17667
Location: Madison, WI
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to actually evaluate the two players, because just about everyone who is voting for Munoz is doing it off of reputation and nothing else. That's not to say that they're wrong or that he didn't earn it, I think Munoz is better as well. I would just want to take a deeper look.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jags


Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 2610
Location: Florida (Thanks to Kempes on the sig)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jb_gobills wrote:
Here is a short write-up I did recently on Munoz:

Anthony Muņoz, LT, Cincinnati Bengals (1980-1992)

  • 11 consecutive Pro Bowls
  • 11 consecutive times All-Pro (9 times first-team All-Pro)
  • 3-time NFL Offensive Linemen of the Year
  • 4-time NFLPA Offensive Linemen of the Year
  • 1991 NFL Man of the Year
  • Member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame (Class of 1998, first year of eligibility)
  • Member of the NFL 75th Anniversary Team
  • Member of the NFL 1980s All-Decade Team
  • 2-time AFC Champion
The game starts in the trenches and Muņoz is the greatest offensive tackle in the history of pro football. Most remember Anthony Muņoz for handily stopping hungry pass rushers dead in their tracks. However, he was versatile and a very complete player. Muņoz could run block just as well as he could pass block. In fact, up until 1980 the Bengals only had one 1,000 yard rusher ever. During Muņoz's tenure the Bengals produced six of them. In addition, Muņoz had 4 touchdown receptions in his career. Strong, quick, agile and tough are words that have often been used to describe the 6-6, 278-lb tackle. He was also very durable and had excellent work ethic.

Anthony Muņoz's Hall of Fame Bio
Anthony Muņoz at Wikipedia


I would once again like to bring up this evaluation for anyone saying "Why did you choose Munoz over Ogden". This should tell you all the reason why. Read it twice if you are still confused. If you have read it twice and are still pondering, then realize that you should take this test


_________________


DarthDavis wrote:
I tell you I respect the Jags forum nothing but classy posters. They got a good group over there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 30050
Location: Greenvillain, NC
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GaTechRavens wrote:
I'd like to actually evaluate the two players, because just about everyone who is voting for Munoz is doing it off of reputation and nothing else. That's not to say that they're wrong or that he didn't earn it, I think Munoz is better as well. I would just want to take a deeper look.


What you say is totally fair. I know I haven't got much more to go on than reputation. I wasn't watching a lot of Cincy back in those days. I am parroting what I have been told more than anything else.

My angle is kinda this though. Plenty of folks have called Munoz the best LT to ever play the game. So if we put Ogden ahead of him, are we saying Ogden is the best OT to ever play?
_________________

CK on the sig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GaTechRavens


Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 17667
Location: Madison, WI
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Pep 4 Step wrote:
GaTechRavens wrote:
I'd like to actually evaluate the two players, because just about everyone who is voting for Munoz is doing it off of reputation and nothing else. That's not to say that they're wrong or that he didn't earn it, I think Munoz is better as well. I would just want to take a deeper look.


What you say is totally fair. I know I haven't got much more to go on than reputation. I wasn't watching a lot of Cincy back in those days. I am parroting what I have been told more than anything else.

My angle is kinda this though. Plenty of folks have called Munoz the best LT to ever play the game. So if we put Ogden ahead of him, are we saying Ogden is the best OT to ever play?


Yes, we are. The general consensus isthat Munoz is the best, and since that's the best source of information we have, we jump on the bandwagon. It's all we have to go by unless we actually do extensive scouting, but it's not necessarily unreliable, either.

I remember a heated debate we had aout "parroting" a while back. Glad you understand that I had no other choice but to "parrot."
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 30050
Location: Greenvillain, NC
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GaTechRavens wrote:
J Pep 4 Step wrote:
GaTechRavens wrote:
I'd like to actually evaluate the two players, because just about everyone who is voting for Munoz is doing it off of reputation and nothing else. That's not to say that they're wrong or that he didn't earn it, I think Munoz is better as well. I would just want to take a deeper look.


What you say is totally fair. I know I haven't got much more to go on than reputation. I wasn't watching a lot of Cincy back in those days. I am parroting what I have been told more than anything else.

My angle is kinda this though. Plenty of folks have called Munoz the best LT to ever play the game. So if we put Ogden ahead of him, are we saying Ogden is the best OT to ever play?


Yes, we are. The general consensus isthat Munoz is the best, and since that's the best source of information we have, we jump on the bandwagon. It's all we have to go by unless we actually do extensive scouting, but it's not necessarily unreliable, either.

I remember a heated debate we had aout "parroting" a while back. Glad you understand that I had no other choice but to "parrot."


We all gotta do what we all gotta do. Wink

I don't necessarily have an issue with parroting as long as it's up front. It's when other opinions are gathered and presented as a persons own intimate opinion that I start to itch. If you don't know, be willing to say you don't know. Ya know? Cool

(that last part is just sharing my opinion and isn't directed at anyone in any way)
_________________

CK on the sig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mitchconnor


Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 1131
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come on, guys. Anyone who ever watched him play can remember how Munoz absolutely stonewalled all opposing defenders. I mean not just not giving up the sack, but rendering the pass rusher invisible. I don't have specific clips at hand to back that up(ity's not like they had YouTube then!), but assuming you've seen both guys in their prime, you know Ogden, while great, didn't consistently dominate to that degree. I know some of the younger posters here probably grew up watching Ogden play, and that frame of reference has a lot to do with it. But seeing both of them just makes it clear how Munoz stands out over even the greatest tackles who have come after him.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jaytrajik


Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 13707
Location: Odessa/Houston
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mitchconnor wrote:
Come on, guys. Anyone who ever watched him play can remember how Munoz absolutely stonewalled all opposing defenders. I mean not just not giving up the sack, but rendering the pass rusher invisible. I don't have specific clips at hand to back that up(ity's not like they had YouTube then!), but assuming you've seen both guys in their prime, you know Ogden, while great, didn't consistently dominate to that degree. I know some of the younger posters here probably grew up watching Ogden play, and that frame of reference has a lot to do with it. But seeing both of them just makes it clear how Munoz stands out over even the greatest tackles who have come after him.


I wouldn't go as far saying he stonewalled "all opposing defenders" but he was pretty shutdown-esque, if that's even close to being a word. But yes, seeing both in their careers, (especially as an Oilers fan since we had to face Cincy twice a year) Munoz had an aura about him. He was awe inspiring dominating and had such sheer brute strength that most of his work was literally pancaking defenders every other play.

Although in Ogdens defense, a more level playing field of this era probably hinders his dominance. Since the size of athletes have undergone a serious transformation. Though he didn't have nearly as intimidating a presence against his peers as Munoz did.
_________________


life is one huge game that infinite awareness has with itself
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
rabbisson


Joined: 26 Dec 2004
Posts: 28840
Location: Stam#PoWwW
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to take Ogden in this debate, though it is close.

He played in an era of more explosive athletes, was just as good at Munoz in terms of pass protection and running the ball, and he won a Super Bowl with a more inferior quarterback than who Munoz had to deal with behind center.

For me, championships are more important than Pro Bowls. Munoz and Ogden are comparable in other areas, but Munoz never won the big game though he got there twice. Ogden did, so with all other things equal (and considering the vast talent that Munoz had around him as opposed to Ogden who had to play with Trent Dilfer) I'd give Ogden some more leverage in this argument.
_________________

Iggles wrote:
This guy gets it. Seriously, the ideas being espoused here need to get to 88 mph so they can go back to the 1950's.

I'm a cold-blooded dickens.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jb_gobills


Moderator
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 14708
Location: Rochester, NY
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabbisson wrote:
For me, championships are more important than Pro Bowls. Munoz and Ogden are comparable in other areas, but Munoz never won the big game though he got there twice. Ogden did, so with all other things equal (and considering the vast talent that Munoz had around him as opposed to Ogden who had to play with Trent Dilfer) I'd give Ogden some more leverage in this argument.


I don't know if you can make a comparison of left tackles based on how many Super Bowls they won and with what quarterbacks they had. Jim Covert won a Super Bowl with Jim McMahon, does that make him better than Munoz?
_________________

^Jamison.
Where else would you rather be than right here, right now?
When it's too tough for them, it's just right for us
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rabbisson


Joined: 26 Dec 2004
Posts: 28840
Location: Stam#PoWwW
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jb_gobills wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
For me, championships are more important than Pro Bowls. Munoz and Ogden are comparable in other areas, but Munoz never won the big game though he got there twice. Ogden did, so with all other things equal (and considering the vast talent that Munoz had around him as opposed to Ogden who had to play with Trent Dilfer) I'd give Ogden some more leverage in this argument.


I don't know if you can make a comparison of left tackles based on how many Super Bowls they won and with what quarterbacks they had. Jim Covert won a Super Bowl with Jim McMahon, does that make him better than Munoz?


Of course not.

But when they are as comparable as Ogden and Munoz, I think it has to be factored in.
_________________

Iggles wrote:
This guy gets it. Seriously, the ideas being espoused here need to get to 88 mph so they can go back to the 1950's.

I'm a cold-blooded dickens.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jb_gobills


Moderator
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 14708
Location: Rochester, NY
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Super Bowls are something that gets factored in too heavily at times, even for quarterbacks. Getting to and winning the Super Bowl is based on the contributions of about 53 players, numerous coaches and various front office people. To give a single player an edge over another because of one Super Bowl win doesn't seem right to me. If you put the greatest player of all-time on a bad team I doubt that team is going to the Super Bowl, much less win one. Barry Sanders on the Detroit Lions is a good example of that. He's not the greatest of all-time, but he is one of the best running backs to ever play the game... and the Lions could barely make the playoffs.
_________________

^Jamison.
Where else would you rather be than right here, right now?
When it's too tough for them, it's just right for us
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL Comparisons All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group