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fishfan4life


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2109
Location: santa rosa california
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 5:12 pm    Post subject: ROOKIE CLASS Reply with quote

I know one season doesn't define a draft class but ONCE AGAIN we are not getting a impact from our rookie class its ground hog day from year to year when it comes to our rookie class.

Watching Buffalo Karlos Williams score TD's left and right and Ronald Darby being ranked top 5 CB in the league as a rookie just has me baffled that we can never get any production from our rookies.
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bigmark76


Joined: 19 Sep 2010
Posts: 229
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we had one?
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Assumed_name


Joined: 19 Nov 2013
Posts: 432
Location: West of GMT
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds a little strong. Parker is limited due to injury and is still ranked above Jennings/Stills. And has flashed a few times. At worst, this is 'jury out.' Ajayi - same problem - injuries. Looked good yesterday.
Franks/Darr rated above Carpenter/Fields.
Phillips has replaced Francis (11 snaps is 3 games) as 2nd DT and, excluding those 11 snaps, ranks only behind Suh.
Vigil ranks far above Sheppard and, per report, isn't starting because he hasn't learned to make D calls well enough.
One of the knocks on Douglass was "game strength" which will take next off-season to address.
Bobby McCain is the 2nd ranked CB on limited reps.
Now, I'm admittedly spinning this, so no need to inform me. My point is this . . . Parker and Ajayi may well have been major contributors sans injuries. Franks and Darr are improvements. Vigil, Phillips, and Douglas may just need another year. Bobby shows potential. No, not any Landrys this year, but, given my philosophy of waiting 2-3 years to grade a draft class, this class doesn't look bad . . . yet.
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ericsvibe


Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 981
Location: East Helena, MT
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's way too early to call out our rooks. If you want to see why we arn't competing look at our draft 3 years ago because that is the one that is hurting us right now. Again I'm not expecting every pick to be a superstar, but you at least expect rookies to contribute off the bench or on special teams. Ireland was horrible, and even the analyts had a better scouting report. I have included quotes from the NFL network. I have all of the scouting reports going back to 2008.

Dion Jordan-A complete waste of a pick. Not only does he have substance abuse issues but he doesn't have any desire to play football. He never fit in a 4-3 anyway. He was a square peg in a round hole from the very beginning.
"Instincts and overall awareness are questionable, may not be able to play any standard position in the pro's."

Jamar Taylor-He has shown flashes, but I don't think he has the smarts to be a starting CB in the NFL. He shows poor technique, and makes the same mistakes over and over.
"Shows poor technique in press, gives up too much ground on outside routes. Falls for play action easily, gets fooled on double moves. Sometimes shows weak effort on takles.

Dallas Thomas-He is the very picture of a walking dumpster fire. He has poor technique, poor balance, poor functional strength. He will be remembered by Phins fans for the next 10 years as the worst O-lineman by far.
"Lacks foot quickness. Weak lower body.Lazy hand usage. Poor balance."

Will Davis-No real contribution. He was traded away, I'm guessing do to his poor attitutde. However he wasn't ever able to land a spot in the defense.
"Needs to bulk up. Plays too aggressively, leads to biting on play action and double moves. Can't get off of blocks. Poor effort in tackling"

Jelani Jenkins-If it wasn't for Jenkins, we wouldn't have a single decent player from this draft on defense. I guess Ireland was just throwing darts at the board at this point and lucked out on Jenkins. His only weakness was his size. But as the old saying goes, if you are short, you better be fast, and Jenkins has sideline to sideline speed. He is our best LB overall.

Dion Sims-Our only decent player on offense from this draft. Sims has been great as a 2nd TE, and a good blocker. You can't ask for much more from a backup TE.

Mike Gillislee-Again Ireland drafting a player without a position on the team. Gillislee was a scatback in college. He danced around and made guys miss to get yards. Well that works in college, but in the NFL where lineman have good speed you better be able to get up the field in a hurry. Gillislee was never able to do that, he just didn't have the speed.
"wastes time behind the line with extra steps and unnecessary movement, tries to bounce every play outside, poor effort as a blocker"

Caleb Sturgis-He was a kicker. Enough said as you can find kikers in free agancy. Again a waste of a draft pick. He could have been signed as a free agent.

Don Jones-He was roster fodder. Never could make an impact on special teams.

So out of an entire draft, we got a really good LB, a decent #2 TE, a horrible OG, and a horrible CB. I can gurantee that Thomas and Taylor will not be on the team next year.

Way to go Jeff.
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Assumed_name


Joined: 19 Nov 2013
Posts: 432
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair, Jordan, Taylor, Thomas were drafted where most draft sites had them slotted. No 'reaches' there. The bad news is he continually struck out on almost every pick.

Here, IMO, was Ireland's problem. In all his draft opportunities, how many skill players did he draft who started? THill. That's it. And for all his time in Miami, how many total starters year one? Long, Donald Thomas, Pouncey, THill. That's it. All but one were OLmen. THERE, IMO, is the problem with the Dolphins right now. Seems to me no GM could be that bad throwing darts. And I'll not mention all the misses in FAs - some being high priced misses. Compared to that history, Hickey is a genius.
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green4gulf


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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Location: The Treasure Coast
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hickey has been a breath of fresh air compared to Ireland. I like Hickey and all, but I'm really hoping for a complete front office overhaul. Anything less than bringing in Bill Polian to fix our mess of a team will be disappointing for me.

That being said; I expect to be disappointed.
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ericsvibe


Joined: 30 Nov 2006
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Location: East Helena, MT
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

green4gulf wrote:
Hickey has been a breath of fresh air compared to Ireland. I like Hickey and all, but I'm really hoping for a complete front office overhaul. Anything less than bringing in Bill Polian to fix our mess of a team will be disappointing for me.

That being said; I expect to be disappointed.


I don't think we need to go that far. Look, we still have turds hanging around the roster from Irelands tenure. It will take 2 more years of good drafting to erase the stink of Ireland from the locker room. This is the main reason I want Campbell to suceed. Hickey is capable of building us a great team. Campbell can coach. We can't just start over again, because we will never get settled.

One thing that stood out to me in the scouting reports was the mentions of poor effort. That is exactly the opposite of what Campbell wants on his team.

I think we are going to be in for a surprise because Ajayi is the real deal. With Miller and Ajayi we have a true 1-2 punch. We need to run the ball more and we have some defenses that are horrible versus the run coming up. We can still wind up with 9 to 10 wins this year. Lets not let the despair from the last 2 games make us give up an fans.
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green4gulf


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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Location: The Treasure Coast
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ericsvibe wrote:
green4gulf wrote:
Hickey has been a breath of fresh air compared to Ireland. I like Hickey and all, but I'm really hoping for a complete front office overhaul. Anything less than bringing in Bill Polian to fix our mess of a team will be disappointing for me.

That being said; I expect to be disappointed.


I don't think we need to go that far. Look, we still have turds hanging around the roster from Irelands tenure. It will take 2 more years of good drafting to erase the stink of Ireland from the locker room. This is the main reason I want Campbell to suceed. Hickey is capable of building us a great team. Campbell can coach. We can't just start over again, because we will never get settled.

One thing that stood out to me in the scouting reports was the mentions of poor effort. That is exactly the opposite of what Campbell wants on his team.

I think we are going to be in for a surprise because Ajayi is the real deal. With Miller and Ajayi we have a true 1-2 punch. We need to run the ball more and we have some defenses that are horrible versus the run coming up. We can still wind up with 9 to 10 wins this year. Lets not let the despair from the last 2 games make us give up an fans.


I like Dan Campbell, but I don't like him enough to keep Polian away. Campbell might be ready to be a HC by next season, but Bill Polian is a hall of fame executive that can make moves in two years that would make us a winning franchise for a decade.

Anyways, I doubt Ross makes the moves to bring in Polian. I'm sure it would cost a lot and it would likely include the removal of Tannenbaum, which I just don't see happenening unfortunately.
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bigmark76


Joined: 19 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

out of curiosity what type of season would it take you to pull the plug on tanny as the franchise qb and draft another? I'm starting to lean towards moving on from him but keeping him another year to take the lumps as we figure out the O-line issues using his 2 year opt out to clear his cap. target qb would be Paxton Lynch.
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green4gulf


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigmark76 wrote:
out of curiosity what type of season would it take you to pull the plug on tanny as the franchise qb and draft another? I'm starting to lean towards moving on from him but keeping him another year to take the lumps as we figure out the O-line issues using his 2 year opt out to clear his cap. target qb would be Paxton Lynch.


From what I understand of Tannehills contract he is garaunteed salary for one more year and in 2017 the Dolphins can drop him free and clear. If that's correct then all it takes for me to draft another potential starting QB is that an upgrade is available.

I like a lot of what Tannehill does, but his poor pocket awareness and inability to hit deep are huge deficiencies IMO.
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ericsvibe


Joined: 30 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigmark76 wrote:
out of curiosity what type of season would it take you to pull the plug on tanny as the franchise qb and draft another? I'm starting to lean towards moving on from him but keeping him another year to take the lumps as we figure out the O-line issues using his 2 year opt out to clear his cap. target qb would be Paxton Lynch.


IF a QB was on the board that was a clear upgrade over Tannehill next year, I would say to draft him. IF not, then we need to draft O-line and build this team the right way. Pouncey and James are the right start, we need a stud LT and 2 OG's. I would prefer we draft them, as free agents are only a bandaid. There have been very few O-line busts in the first 2 rounds of the draft the last couple of years.
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Assumed_name


Joined: 19 Nov 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OTs seem to be more risky pick the last 2-3 years. OGs seem to be a better bet. As for Tanny, my biggest knock is audibles, or, more accurately, lack of audibles. Coaches say he's allowed to audible. I remember seeing none. If he can't recognize Ds is the 4th year, that's a significant limitation. If he's restricted, remove the chains.
Here is the problem with finding a 'better' QB - it's very difficult. First, by definition, 1st round QBs are seen as an upgrade to the existing QB, i.e., 'better.' What follows is a list of 1st round QBs for '12, '13, '14 . . .
Manuel, Geno Smith, Luck, RGIII, Tannehill, Weeden, Bortles, Manziel, Bridgewater. Whether they ended up 'better' or not, I don't know. What is certain is finding a top QB, much less elite, is very difficult with the odds of failure quite high. My inclination is a OG or CB has better odds of helping the team than a 1st rd QB. BTW, I know you didn't specify 1st rd.
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ericsvibe


Joined: 30 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assumed_name wrote:
OTs seem to be more risky pick the last 2-3 years. OGs seem to be a better bet. As for Tanny, my biggest knock is audibles, or, more accurately, lack of audibles. Coaches say he's allowed to audible. I remember seeing none. If he can't recognize Ds is the 4th year, that's a significant limitation. If he's restricted, remove the chains.
Here is the problem with finding a 'better' QB - it's very difficult. First, by definition, 1st round QBs are seen as an upgrade to the existing QB, i.e., 'better.' What follows is a list of 1st round QBs for '12, '13, '14 . . .
Manuel, Geno Smith, Luck, RGIII, Tannehill, Weeden, Bortles, Manziel, Bridgewater. Whether they ended up 'better' or not, I don't know. What is certain is finding a top QB, much less elite, is very difficult with the odds of failure quite high. My inclination is a OG or CB has better odds of helping the team than a 1st rd QB. BTW, I know you didn't specify 1st rd.


Which is why I don't want the team dismantled next year. Lets just see how this thing plays out, because with the next 2 games we play teams with bad defenses and we might just be 5-5 in two weeks.

I'm not expecting playoffs this year, but we have the roster and the schedule to wind up with 10 wins. Even if we loose again to the Jets.

If we can draft a good OG in the first next year, it will make a big difference. Just one upgrade could unlock our offense. I still have hopes for Douglas at RG.


WE NEED A LG!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Assumed_name


Joined: 19 Nov 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And Turner. 58th his 1st four games. 43 the last three - almost average. Disclaimer; only two games.
Talent? Let's do it this way. 4 D players rank in the bottom 25th at their position. Mitchell, Sheppard, Taylor, Brice McCain. Of those 4, McCain is playing out of position. FWIW, Misi, while grading high, is 4th from the bottom in pass coverage. Wake's status is unknown. What do Phillips, Vigil, lippert, and Bobby McCain have? Dunno. Assuming McCain moves back to slot corner, 3 spots badly need upgrades and 1-2 may already be on the team.
On O, 4 players are in the bottom 25% - Thomas, Fox, Jennings, and Sims. Of those 4, Fox is a backup and Jennings is likely gone end of season and Parker/Hazel in the wings. I doubt Sims is replaced unless Miami stumbles on to a better replacement (Stoneburner?). Looks to me like the target on O is Thomas, assuming Turner's play remains average or above.
I could spin this more rosy than it is, but I won't. My point is, Miami has some talent. 2-4 pieces upgraded and the team is MUCH better. We'll have to see what happens to Miami's FAs.
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freak_of_nature


Joined: 15 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think our first pick needs to be a defensive playmaker. Ramsey or Bosa would be divine. Go for BPA on the o-line in Round 2. There should be a quality starter at OG available there, but I may not trust our staff to find him.
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