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Jrod8484


Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 677
Location: Tucson, AZ
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:57 pm    Post subject: Herm? Reply with quote

In my opinion, Herman Edwards is a great football coach. He isnt the fanciest coach with all the plays but he is a great coach. I dont know why everyone (or it seems like) is bagging on him saying that he has to go. I think in the last five years, he is the best pickup of any addition to the team. Vilma is a close #2 but I put Herm in front. The Jets are always at the top of the league with least penalties (#2 this year) and turnover differential, with the exception of this year. Those stats dont show up on the wins and losses but they are huge contributors. If the Jets were healthy and on top of the AFC East, no one would even think about wanting to get rid of him. He needs a contract extention. Do you guys agree?
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Gang_Green03


Joined: 12 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that he is a very good coach and I don't know what some critics have against him. You can't really judge him on a year like this. Maybe if we don't show any improvement next year under him then I would agree with the critics a little more. And as you said the fact that he usually runs a very disciplined team is one of the things I like about him the most.
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Spiel612


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the turnover thing has got to change. ESPN.com did a report and found in research that having a positive turnover differential is more important than least penalties.

I think Herm needs to go not because the team is 2-9, but because he downplayed the Pennington injury. He kept telling us he would be fine and then Pennington comes back at less than 100% and goes down for the season in Week 3. But it doesn't matter what I think or want in this scenario because again according to ESPN.com Herman Edwards is not on the hotseast because apparently Woody Johnson, the Jets owner, has had some discussions with Herm and Bradway and they are committed to revamping the offense.

The grounds have been set with a new offensive coordinator. I think by next season, when Chad is 31 they won't be able to hold off on getting a new QB, or at least one to sit behind Chad until he's the future starter.
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NikeFootball05


Joined: 09 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just because Herm downplayed Pennington's injury doesn't mean he should pack up his bags and depart to Kansas City. Herm is an excellent motivator and honest guy that plays the game to win. Everyone is forgetting what he has done since he's arrived in New York, 3 playoff appearances. You can't judge him on this season; it's like judging a painting by a painter that didn't use a brush. He has had not tools to work with, major injuries to Pennington, Blaylock, Fiedler, Chrebet, Baker, Mawae, Fabini, and Barton. Also Curtis Martin has not been successful because of an ankle injury. And at the beginning of the season, they projected the Jets to go to the Super Bowl, so the sports analysts must have had faith in him to lead the team. He has not been like Don Capers, Steve Marrucci, Jim Haslett, or Bill Bellicheck who have been bad coaches consistently these past few years. Anyway, if we have raw, young talent next year, it would be great to have him around to mentor and shape it. Who else would you want as a coach that it would be possible to have?? I think Heimerdinger's offensive system has not been working but firing Hackett was the right choice. Henderson's defense hasn't been itself this year and they're really not to blame since they're on the field 45 minutes a game. Plain and simple, the injury bug and lack of playmakers (which could be blamed on GM Terry Bradway) is the problem. If anything, we need a new GM who is aggressive and only wants quality playmakers on the roster.
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KBS756


Joined: 01 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE JETS NEED TO KEEP HERM EDWARDS HE IS A VERY GOOD CAOCH THE GM NEEDS TO GO HALF THE TIME HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING
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Ven0m


Joined: 22 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, If the GM left, they would fire Herm too because A new GM isnt going to want the old GM's coaching staff, he will hire his own. So Firing Bradway and keeping Herm isnt an option.

Second of all, Herm Edwards is a mediocre head coach.

-He has no clue how to manage a clock (Example: Last Week, A real head coach would have not been running the ball with a 53 yard field goal attempt to still kick with a rookie kicker, they would have given him about a 40 yarder to attempt at most). Stupid Mistakes like this have cost us games for 5 years now.

-He has no clue how to run a game in general, he wastes timeouts, he is horribly conservative, to the point where his conservativity cripples us on offense(aka teams put 8 in the box and he refuses to throw the deep ball over them).

-Herm is too soft, Justin Miller has fumbled 4 kick/punt returns this season and HE IS STILL BACK THERE. Name another head coach in the league that wouldnt bench his [inappropriate/removed] after 4 fumbled returns in crippleing spots.

-Herm refuses to use our younger talent, he would rather run Curtis Martin 30 times a game every game, then give Cedric Houston a single carry because Herm thinks that 'he cant block' or some other BS excuse not to play him. Herm threw an injured Chad Pennington back into the game, after tearing his rotator cuff a SECOND time, all because he didnt want to play Brooks Bollinger.

-38-40 record as a head coach, I dont give a crap about the 3 playoff appearances in 5 years when in his best year we were 10-6. That is mediocrity, and being mediocre is not good enough. Mediocre never won anybody a superbowl and thats what we want, a Superbowl Win.

-5 years as our head coach, and he has yet to develop a single pro-bowl player, every player we have who has made the pro bowl has been from the Parcells Regime (Abraham, Ellis, Mawae, Martin, ect.). Simply Pathetic that we have a head coach that cannot develop talent, but he relies on the talent given to him with the previous regime.

-He will send injured players out there, who have no buisness of playing because they want to be on the field when it is clearly holding the team back. Then they reinjure themselves even worse and he acts like he has nothing to do with it.

And then worst of all, he is our Head Coach and all he does is hide behind excuses, weird sayings, and throwing people under the bus.

2001: Inherited a Great Parcells Team, made the playoffs because the team was so good
2002: Goes off on a poor start, Throws Vinny under the bus, Starts Chad and gives everybody the "You Play To Win The Game" speech. Which is quite hypocritical because he plays not to lose the game.
2003: He hid behind injuries(Pennington), and got our defensive coordinator fired by throwing him under the Bus, but because of a strong finish when Chad did come back, he got a fricken extension on his deal by smooth talking. Rolling Eyes
2004: Got off to a terrific start, but collapsed down the stretch, He got our offensive coordinator fired by throwing him under the bus and hides behind an torn rotator cuff injury by Chad Pennington.
2005: Injuries, waaa, waaa, waaa. Guess What Herm? The Pats have just as many injuries and they deal with it and still win games.

Enough of his excuses. Herm/Bradway Must Go.
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Jrod8484


Joined: 11 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I couldnt disagree with you more. Where do I start. Lets start here:

Herm's caoching styles are the same as - Vermiels (his mentor) and Tony Dungy's (his best friend). Your right, they play not to lose. But by that, you should mean that they dont put themselves in positions to lose. They play disciplined, mistake free football and they are in every game on the schedule. No body says those two coaches need to go.

Edwards was in the same position as Dungy. Dungy was brought in to coach an average Colts team in 2002 who was 6-10 the previous year, much like Edwards. Manning came off a 26 td, 23 int season with a 84.1 qb rating. James only had 600+ yards rushing. The only key players that have been brought in since his first season in 2002 is Freeney, Stokely, Mathis, Brackett, Simon, and June. Everyone else were palyers he "inherited from a great Jim Mora team." Give me a break bro. Vermiel came in to a 7-9 Cheifs team. Lets take a look at who Vermiel "inherited" when he took the Cheifs head coach position in 2001: Tony Gonzalez, Dante Hall, Trent Green, Tony Richardson, Will Sheilds, Brian Waters, Priest Holmes, and Eric Hicks. I guess you can say the only players that he has added to the team that has gone to the Pro Bowl is Willie Roaf. Look who Edwards had to deal with when he became the Jets coach: an old Defense with Mo Lewis, Marvin Jones, Victor Green and Aaron Glenn who were far beyond their prime, the starting recievers were Wayne Chrebet and Matthew Hatchette. He groomed the 2000 draft class that included Pennington, Abraham, Ellis, and Coles. And since then, he has brought on Vilma, Robertson, Kendall, Law, Brandon Moore, McCariens, Barton, Hobson, he drafted Jordan, and brought in two good coordinators.
Dungy has inherited the most out of all three teams and he is in the best position.

As far as Herm playing injured players, Vermiel brought Priest Holmes back and he is once again out for the season. Nobody gives him a hard time.

About the Saints game, in my opinion, you give the ball to Martin. Why would you leave time left on the clock and you have a young inexperienced qb in the game. Handing off the ball is a no brainer. Look at what happened when they did call a pass play, Kendall had a bad snap and took them out farther than they should have been. The only bad clock managed game I could think of is last year against the Ravens.

As far as being conservative, can you blame him. His qb has no time to throw due to the injuries on the line, and look who the qb is. When the team is aggresive, besides the Saints game, you can usually count on the other team endeing up with the ball.

And you said Herm refuses to use our young talent. Lets see, He is the one that was coaching when Pennington made his debut, Vilma and Coleman both started last year as rookies. Robertson started as a rookie. He plays Miller and Straight a lot, Cotcherey gets plenty of pt, Hobson is starting, Adrian Jones was named starter this year, our kicker and punter are both rookies, shall I keep going? Oh yeah, and if I have to choose between handing the ball off to Martin and trying to get him his 1,000 or handing it off to a 6th round rookie, I choose Martin.

About our coordinator positions, Henderson is doing a much better than Cotrell in Minnesota. He is doing better than Cotrell ever did in NY. And Hackett obviously isnt a OC. he is a qb coach in Tampa. And look at what Himerdinger did in Tennessee. He gave McNair an MVP season, and last year had a 1000 yd rusher and two 1000 recievers with no McNair.

The only BS about Edwards is what you were saying against him.
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Spiel612


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There have been a lot of cases of Herm Edwards screwing around with time management and calling very conservative playcalls, but that should be one of the main knocks agains thim. Like against Pittsburgh last season taking a knee instead of running the ball to center it and gain more yardage for Doug Brien.

The defense when he took over and the defense now is way different...

The entire LB core is changed, their is not a single DB left from the Parcells era, and Jason Ferguson is gone. The two players from the Parcells era we still have on defense are Abraham and Ellis. While Abraham is explosive and Ellis is a consistently good player, both have struggled this year a bit.

Herm and Henderson have certainly done a lot to fix the defense. This year the defense has been outmatched because they've been on the field for 3/4 of the game.

I do agree that Herm isn't an elite coach, but I think he's better than mediocre. His players aren't executing and he doesn't have the same depth that the Patriots do to keep winning. If he is 38-41 (now with the loss to the Pats) then that means he came in at 36-31. That's not amazing, but he's brought us to the playoffs 3 times which is always nice. In my opinion Herm isn't a bad coach but he can't help us develop any longer and we've gone as far as we can with him. Thus he needs to go. I think Donnie Henderson should take over, because he's a "I don't take crap" coach. Hell he yelled at Tom Coughlin during the pre-season saying that the Giants didn't practice at a tough enough tempo.
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Spiel612


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NikeFootball05 wrote:
Just because Herm downplayed Pennington's injury doesn't mean he should pack up his bags and depart to Kansas City. Herm is an excellent motivator and honest guy that plays the game to win. Everyone is forgetting what he has done since he's arrived in New York, 3 playoff appearances. You can't judge him on this season; it's like judging a painting by a painter that didn't use a brush. He has had not tools to work with, major injuries to Pennington, Blaylock, Fiedler, Chrebet, Baker, Mawae, Fabini, and Barton. Also Curtis Martin has not been successful because of an ankle injury. And at the beginning of the season, they projected the Jets to go to the Super Bowl, so the sports analysts must have had faith in him to lead the team. He has not been like Don Capers, Steve Marrucci, Jim Haslett, or Bill Bellicheck who have been bad coaches consistently these past few years. Anyway, if we have raw, young talent next year, it would be great to have him around to mentor and shape it. Who else would you want as a coach that it would be possible to have?? I think Heimerdinger's offensive system has not been working but firing Hackett was the right choice. Henderson's defense hasn't been itself this year and they're really not to blame since they're on the field 45 minutes a game. Plain and simple, the injury bug and lack of playmakers (which could be blamed on GM Terry Bradway) is the problem. If anything, we need a new GM who is aggressive and only wants quality playmakers on the roster.


Bill Bellicheck has been a bad coach consistently? I think you mean Brian Billick.
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NikeFootball05


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THANK YOU JROD 8484 COULDNT HAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF! By the way he also brought in Santana Moss in the 2001 Draft Class and he is using Kerry Rhodes at safety and if he was healthy, Rhodes would have been competing with Andre Maddox and Oliver Celestin who is not a rookie but is inexperienced as a starter.
The Pats may have as many injuries as the Jets but last time I checked they still had arguably the best QB in this era besides Peyton Manning and an O Line that actually blocked. If you are going to be successful, you need a stable QB and Tom Brady is exactly and more than that.
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kilahchris


Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My two cents

The Jets are a team that have done well that past 5 years with solid defense and just ok enough offense to get by.

I give Herm credit for being a good fundamentals coach. Jets are always among the top 5 teams in least penalties and turnovers per game.

But when it comes to offensive personnel thats where Herm is at his weakest. Jets often fail to utilize their younger offensive talent (Lamont Jordan, Cedric Houston.) they fail to see what makes their offense work.

The jets fail to see who is more important in the long term future. We once had Coles and Moss, Chad Morton and John Hall and Lamont Jordan. The jets fail to see the importance of their production and thus fail to sign 4 of the 5 ( re sign exception Moss).

We instead give an injury prone QB 64 million for 8 years. Horrible personell decision making. (my opinion Peyton Manning is only QB in football worth that much for that long)

when we lost Coles we instead make a deal for Curtis Conway a supbar replacement at best.

We still hand the ball to Curtis Martin and expect him to carry 25+ a game

we still throw the ball to Wayne Chrebet way more than Jehrico Cotchery (until Chrebet injury).

we fail to see an aging Oline that is falling apart, we draft no OLinemen in 2005.

We trade a first round pick for a tight end i never heard of. Horrible decision. When Heath Miller is available and cleary a better player.

We trade 2 draftpicks in 03 for Dewayne Robertson. Scouts say they seem improvement from Dewayne. ( I see a huge DT getting pushed around alot by the better Olinemen in the league, but he does show some upside)


we overeact when Doug Brien missed to fieldgoals in that playoff game
and we draft nugent with our first pick in 2005.


When it comes to what who should be playing and and the future of the jets offense herm has to take some blame.


Of course its not all Herm's fault. But his conservative approach to offensive production, his horrible lack of time management and unwillingness to use first year offensive draft picks(other than special teams work) holds the jets back.


On a side note

Although Bellicheck is a great coach my personal favorite is Andy Reid.
Andy Reid is a great motivator. He is Truly a big reason why and how Donovan McNabb is progressed.
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Spiel612


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doug Jolley was a decent TE, as you see he's explosive and breaks a lot of tackles but he apparently isn't made for this offense which is what really gets me. He's athletic but he's not apparently fit for the Heimerdinger scheme.


Andy Reid pisses me off Very Happy

Maybe I just hate the Eagles so much though.

Personally I'm a fan of Jack Del Rio. He's molding his team into a really smart, disciplined team that doesn't go for glory, just a simple win.
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kilahchris


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whether he fits Heimdinger scheme or not

he is not worth a first round pick period.
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Spiel612


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kilahchris wrote:
Whether he fits Heimdinger scheme or not

he is not worth a first round pick period.


He wasn't worth ANY pick. If a player doesn't fit the scheme why trade for him? Heimerdinger and Herm should have known better. Bradway...OI!

What we needed to do was just draft Heath Miller.
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Jrod8484


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What we did, in my opinion was the thing to do. Except, we should have traded our first round pick to two picks. The Jets know how to find players after the first two rounds. Chris Baker (3rd), Adrian Jones (4th), Jerricho Cotcherey (4th) Mark Brown (RFA), Eric Coleman (5th), Jonathan Goodwin (5th), Kerry Rhodes (5th). Jolley definately doesnt fit in our system and I personnaly think Heath Miller wouldnt fit in O either. He is a great young TE but the Jets need another Chris Baker type TE. One who can really block and also be a good reciever.
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