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The 3-4, Debunking the Myths
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Willink


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best thread of 2009.
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Thepackattack97


Joined: 21 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
5) The run defense does not struggle and should in fact improve, possibly significantly, for teams making the switch that at least have a serviceable nose tackle. In conflict with popular opinion.


Yea, I never really understood that line of logic anyway. A good majority of the 3-4 defenses are top 15 in terms of rush defense.

Amazing write-up. I loved it.
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bears2308


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great read. Although, what matters most is the players you have and how they transition IMO. The best player on the d-line, Kampman, is now playing out of position. Al Harris will also be playing differently then before, and his best skills won't show in the new scheme. The 3rd player that I can see regressing is Nick Collins. Look how long it took him to become a solid starter since first coming into the NFL. Now he has to be the "smart man". Correct me if I'm wrong, but intelligence is not Nick Collins forte.

The main reason I see why Green Bay switched to the 3-4 was to help the miserable run game. In doing that, will it hurt Green Bay's top-rated secondary? I think so.
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Thepackattack97


Joined: 21 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bears2308 wrote:
The 3rd player that I can see regressing is Nick Collins. Look how long it took him to become a solid starter since first coming into the NFL. Now he has to be the "smart man". Correct me if I'm wrong, but intelligence is not Nick Collins forte.

How does Collins have to be the "smart man"? I've been a lineman since peewees, so please forgive me ignorance on the matter. Surprised
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Xx KiLLa G X


Joined: 13 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've mentioned this so many times, and apparently there are some people who still don't understand.

Just because the Packers are switching to a 3-4, doesn't mean the Packers won't use man-to-man bump-and-run coverage. The main transition will be in the front 7 (linemen and linebackers). We have smart coaches that know our teams strengths and won't take them away. As for Nick Collins, he's always been fairly intelligent, from a football sense (maybe not book smart, but he knows football). Nevertheless, I still think our defensive playcaller will be AJ Hawk or Nick Barnett, not Collins, being that any audible changes will come along the front 7, not the secondary.
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bears2308


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thepackattack97 wrote:
bears2308 wrote:
The 3rd player that I can see regressing is Nick Collins. Look how long it took him to become a solid starter since first coming into the NFL. Now he has to be the "smart man". Correct me if I'm wrong, but intelligence is not Nick Collins forte.

How does Collins have to be the "smart man"? I've been a lineman since peewees, so please forgive me ignorance on the matter. Surprised


The free safety is basically the quarterback of the defense in a 3-4.
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hawk050


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bears2308 wrote:
Great read. Although, what matters most is the players you have and how they transition IMO. The best player on the d-line, Kampman, is now playing out of position. Al Harris will also be playing differently then before, and his best skills won't show in the new scheme. The 3rd player that I can see regressing is Nick Collins. Look how long it took him to become a solid starter since first coming into the NFL. Now he has to be the "smart man". Correct me if I'm wrong, but intelligence is not Nick Collins forte.

The main reason I see why Green Bay switched to the 3-4 was to help the miserable run game. In doing that, will it hurt Green Bay's top-rated secondary? I think so.


I dont think Woodson, Harris, Williams, Collins, and Bigby (who will pretty much be a 5th LB) are scared.


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palmy50 wrote:
The fact it's so tight is just a plus.
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Willink


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bears2308 wrote:
Thepackattack97 wrote:
bears2308 wrote:
The 3rd player that I can see regressing is Nick Collins. Look how long it took him to become a solid starter since first coming into the NFL. Now he has to be the "smart man". Correct me if I'm wrong, but intelligence is not Nick Collins forte.

How does Collins have to be the "smart man"? I've been a lineman since peewees, so please forgive me ignorance on the matter. Surprised


The free safety is basically the quarterback of the defense in a 3-4.


http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=7216335#7216335
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bears2308


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Willink wrote:
bears2308 wrote:
Thepackattack97 wrote:
bears2308 wrote:
The 3rd player that I can see regressing is Nick Collins. Look how long it took him to become a solid starter since first coming into the NFL. Now he has to be the "smart man". Correct me if I'm wrong, but intelligence is not Nick Collins forte.

How does Collins have to be the "smart man"? I've been a lineman since peewees, so please forgive me ignorance on the matter. Surprised


The free safety is basically the quarterback of the defense in a 3-4.


http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=7216335#7216335


Ok? Forgive me if I missed something, but all you did was show me other peoples thoughts. They seem to be what they think would work best. Usually the FS is the quarterback of the defense. Who are you telling me will be making the defensive calls? Do you know? Or is it pure speculation. There is probably a reason the FS has that role.
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Waldo


Joined: 29 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bears2308 wrote:
Willink wrote:
bears2308 wrote:
Thepackattack97 wrote:
bears2308 wrote:
The 3rd player that I can see regressing is Nick Collins. Look how long it took him to become a solid starter since first coming into the NFL. Now he has to be the "smart man". Correct me if I'm wrong, but intelligence is not Nick Collins forte.

How does Collins have to be the "smart man"? I've been a lineman since peewees, so please forgive me ignorance on the matter. Surprised


The free safety is basically the quarterback of the defense in a 3-4.


http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=7216335#7216335


Ok? Forgive me if I missed something, but all you did was show me other peoples thoughts. They seem to be what they think would work best. Usually the FS is the quarterback of the defense. Who are you telling me will be making the defensive calls? Do you know? Or is it pure speculation. There is probably a reason the FS has that role.


AJ has been doing it in OTA's.

Just like I figured he would.....
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Willink


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waldo wrote:
bears2308 wrote:
Willink wrote:
bears2308 wrote:
Thepackattack97 wrote:
bears2308 wrote:
The 3rd player that I can see regressing is Nick Collins. Look how long it took him to become a solid starter since first coming into the NFL. Now he has to be the "smart man". Correct me if I'm wrong, but intelligence is not Nick Collins forte.

How does Collins have to be the "smart man"? I've been a lineman since peewees, so please forgive me ignorance on the matter. Surprised


The free safety is basically the quarterback of the defense in a 3-4.


http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=7216335#7216335


Ok? Forgive me if I missed something, but all you did was show me other peoples thoughts. They seem to be what they think would work best. Usually the FS is the quarterback of the defense. Who are you telling me will be making the defensive calls? Do you know? Or is it pure speculation. There is probably a reason the FS has that role.


AJ has been doing it in OTA's.

Just like I figured he would.....


^This. It is a criticism posed toward Collins that had already been reflected upon and noted to have little likelihood in occurring.
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Thepackattack97


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waldo wrote:


AJ has been doing it in OTA's.

Just like I figured he would.....


I believe you, but do you have a link on hand to it?
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Waldo


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bears2308 wrote:
Great read. Although, what matters most is the players you have and how they transition IMO.


Like I noted in that very long read.

One big trend came to the fore that isn't really ever talked about.

A) Games are won and lost on 3rd down.

B) The player types and numbers used for a 3-4 base defenses appear to be superior to those used by 4-3 defenses for 3rd down situational defense.

The team does not run a 3-4 in 3rd down situational defense. The bigs plugging the line come in, or the pass rushers.

Something that we had 2 years ago, but did not have last year.
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Waldo


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thepackattack97 wrote:
Waldo wrote:


AJ has been doing it in OTA's.

Just like I figured he would.....


I believe you, but do you have a link on hand to it?


No, the reporters would rather talk about who is there and who is absent.

People that have been there noted that AJ was basically an on-field coach and was doing the play calling.
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Thepackattack97


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waldo wrote:


No, the reporters would rather talk about who is there and who is absent.

People that have been there noted that AJ was basically an on-field coach and was doing the play calling.


Like people you know personally or?..
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