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RaidersRule!
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 300
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 Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| oakdb36 wrote: | | Special Teamer wrote: | | Yep. I am jealous that my team didn't draft a QB 1st overall based purely on potential that hasn't panned out yet. |
I find that funny coming from a Ram' fans considering they just drafted an OT #2 overall based purely on potential. Are you gonna tell me Jason Smith was considered the best OT in college last season? Drafting on potential is a risky strategy but one frequently used by NFL teams. |
Yup - and please let us all know when Howies son actually makes a play for the Rams |
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tml_gogo
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 8480
Location: Montréal
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| Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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Everyone knew he was a project coming out of LSU. It was pretty much the consensus that Brady Quinn was lower risk / lower reward while Russell was high risk / high reward..so basically we are seeing exactly what we should. Not only is he a project, he was behind the worst o-line in football with a wide receiver cast that might do some damage in the CFL. Obviously he doesn't have the work ethic that a great quarterback should, but it doesn't mean he will be a complete failure.
I think he's going to be average. All he really has is a rocket arm, and we all know that doesn't make a quarterback successful. If he can improve his accuracy, he can become ok.
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Illmatic74
Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Posts: 2165
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| tml_gogo wrote: | Everyone knew he was a project coming out of LSU. It was pretty much the consensus that Brady Quinn was lower risk / lower reward while Russell was high risk / high reward..so basically we are seeing exactly what we should. Not only is he a project, he was behind the worst o-line in football with a wide receiver cast that might do some damage in the CFL. Obviously he doesn't have the work ethic that a great quarterback should, but it doesn't mean he will be a complete failure.
I think he's going to be average. All he really has is a rocket arm, and we all know that doesn't make a quarterback successful. If he can improve his accuracy, he can become ok. |
Exactly he is not horrible but he is not on the path towards elite either. His career I think will be similar to Kerry Collins.
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“Anybody who plays chess knows your rook never falls down, your rook never stops one spot short. There’s human nature to football that will never make it into a game of numbers.” Jim Schwartz |
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RaidersRule!
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 300
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:11 am Post subject: |
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Theres a rule of thumb in the NFL
It's been around for 60 years
Any coach, GM, analyst or expert worth a damn will tell you that you cannot judge a QB till his 3rd year as a starter
This is the standard - and has been well before the majority of you were ever born
If your ever at the water cooler and dont wanna look like an idiot - I suggest you never call any NFL drafted QB a bust until after his 3rd year as a starter |
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SatireSphere
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 3872
Location: Ontario, CA Team: Patriots
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| Flaccomania wrote: | | If he is going to, this year is the year. Personally, I just don't see it though. He's got all of the physical tools, but I just don't think he has the desire or mental aspect to live up to being a #1 overall pick a la Manningx2, Palmer, etc. |
He's done just about as good as Eli Manning with less help on the offensive side of the ball. Jamarcus isn't a bust, give him at least a couple more years, especially now that he's got some more talent at WR and is entering his "sophomore" year.
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Special Teamer
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 1836
Location: Orlando, FL
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| RaidersRule! wrote: | | oakdb36 wrote: | | Special Teamer wrote: | | Yep. I am jealous that my team didn't draft a QB 1st overall based purely on potential that hasn't panned out yet. |
I find that funny coming from a Ram' fans considering they just drafted an OT #2 overall based purely on potential. Are you gonna tell me Jason Smith was considered the best OT in college last season? Drafting on potential is a risky strategy but one frequently used by NFL teams. |
Yup - and please let us all know when Howies son actually makes a play for the Rams |
There is a huge difference in drafting an Offensive Tackle on potential versus a Quarterback. HUGE DIFFERENCE. The Quarterback is the pulse of your offense. He is supposed to be the leader of the team, decipher defenses, make plays. An offensive tackle, although an important position, doesn't directly control the play of your offense. The Raiders offense will only be as good as JaMarcus.
And about Chris Long, 4 sacks and leading the team in QB pressures is solid for a rookie DE so I don't see what your getting at.
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FitzIsDaKing
Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 43
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| tml_gogo wrote: | Everyone knew he was a project coming out of LSU. It was pretty much the consensus that Brady Quinn was lower risk / lower reward while Russell was high risk / high reward..so basically we are seeing exactly what we should. Not only is he a project, he was behind the worst o-line in football with a wide receiver cast that might do some damage in the CFL. Obviously he doesn't have the work ethic that a great quarterback should, but it doesn't mean he will be a complete failure.
I think he's going to be average. All he really has is a rocket arm, and we all know that doesn't make a quarterback successful. If he can improve his accuracy, he can become ok. |
My thoughts exactly, he'll be an average QB at most.
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Buckrock101
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 24202
Location: Sudden Valley
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 1:05 am Post subject: |
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I think he's going to come good, and be the very good QB he is capable of being. Just looking at his development over his career in the NFL so far, his future looks promising to me. He struggled early, but has been getting better and better as his career has moved on, and was looking pretty good around the latter part of last season. If he has a healthy McFadden and an improved OL to work with this year, I'm expecting a further improvement from the big guy.
He's one of my picks as a breakout QB this year, I think he'll lead the Raiders to a 6-8 win season.
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| primetime21335 wrote: | | Buckrock is right. |
| McNabbMcFadden wrote: | | All Hail Buckrock |
He's like the steel man from The Wizard of Oz |
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Svengali
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 411
Location: FL/TN
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 1:28 am Post subject: |
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He's clearly talented enough to do big things and he has improved quite a bit. I think what's working against him is the culture and system they have in place there. There gets a point in any job where you're consistently set up to fail and after awhile, you and most of your co workers throw your hands up and say to hell with it, let's just collect our checks. Sadly, with the exception of a healed up Mcfadden, I just don't see any kind of breakout this year.
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| JaguarsFan28329 wrote: |
Ugh you know what put this in your sig I Jaguarsfan28329 guarantee Maurice Jones drew will have a better season than Chris Johnson. |
2009 may be lost, but at least we aint The Raiders. |
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Vexing Viking
Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Posts: 945
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 1:56 am Post subject: |
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I find it ridiculous that the stats provided by PurpleProwess on page 2 have essentially been ignored. I found them to be very relevant and interesting.
Anyway I don't think Russell will live up to the hype of the first overall pick. I don't think he'll be a complete but just never the superstar that some people expected him to be. He has all of the tools to be great but I think his personality is really what is holding him back. Gaining weight, partying, holding out, missing meetings... all the little things seem to indicate he really isn't that focused on becoming great. I'm not sure I blame him given the contract he was given based solely off of college performance and physical tools. He was given a 60 million dollar contract before he ever played a down in the NFL and he just doesn't seem that focused on improving. He did look better at the end of the year and with awful receivers so there is hope I just think he is in desperate need of some quality coaching which likely won't be provided for him in Oakland.
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Bo-Raider
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 1579
Location: London
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 3:43 am Post subject: |
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| liquidrage wrote: | | JR discussions are boring. It's basically a guessing game filled with presupposed opinions. He looked very good last year at times, and lost at others. Like most young QB's. He finished the year on a high note, and if he consistently plays like he did in his better games he'll be in the probowl. And if he doesn't progress at all, or regresses, he'll be a bust. |
I think this is the right answer.
After one year as a starter it's too early to say. Russell has shaky accuracy, but doesn't make too many bad decisions, he threw very few interceptions last year.
His season was average at best, and if he plays the same way this year, then people can start talking about him being a bust.
But he threw more TDs than interceptions with a poor receiving corps, so I don't see why people are so sure a young QB can't play better in only his second year as a starter.
Next year though I don't think he'll have any excuse for doing badly. I know many Raiders' fans like to use the supporting cast excuse, but in truth, if you draft a QB #1 and pay him some $70million you shouldn't moan about who he's got to work with.
It's up to your QB to carry the offense not the other way round.
It'll be an interesting year to watch the Raiders, we'll have a much better idea of how the McFadden and Russell picks are going to pan out. |
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oakdb36
Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 3727
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| Special Teamer wrote: | | RaidersRule! wrote: | | oakdb36 wrote: | | Special Teamer wrote: | | Yep. I am jealous that my team didn't draft a QB 1st overall based purely on potential that hasn't panned out yet. |
I find that funny coming from a Ram' fans considering they just drafted an OT #2 overall based purely on potential. Are you gonna tell me Jason Smith was considered the best OT in college last season? Drafting on potential is a risky strategy but one frequently used by NFL teams. |
Yup - and please let us all know when Howies son actually makes a play for the Rams |
There is a huge difference in drafting an Offensive Tackle on potential versus a Quarterback. HUGE DIFFERENCE. The Quarterback is the pulse of your offense. He is supposed to be the leader of the team, decipher defenses, make plays. An offensive tackle, although an important position, doesn't directly control the play of your offense. The Raiders offense will only be as good as JaMarcus.
And about Chris Long, 4 sacks and leading the team in QB pressures is solid for a rookie DE so I don't see what your getting at. |
There's obviously a difference between the Qb's role and the Lt's but i don't know what that has to do with the point you were trying to make...
Drafting a guy based on potential is the point and it doesn't matter which position he is playing. And using the #1 or #2 overall makes it even more similar.
I'm looking forward to the next excuse you're gonna come up with though.
The only point you've brought up to back up your statement in this thread is that since he has all the physical tools but didn't lead the Raiders to more wins, the problem has to be the mental part of the game. Maybe you've missed the fact that the Raiders have been pretty bad well before he was drafted and expecting him to suddenly turn the franchise around in his first season was unrealistic. Especially since, as you've noted, he was a potential pick, hence not a finished product. Don't know about you but it will take a bit more than 16 starts for me to determine if he can ever reach his potential or not.
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Special Teamer
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 1836
Location: Orlando, FL
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| oakdb36 wrote: | | Special Teamer wrote: | | RaidersRule! wrote: | | oakdb36 wrote: | | Special Teamer wrote: | | Yep. I am jealous that my team didn't draft a QB 1st overall based purely on potential that hasn't panned out yet. |
I find that funny coming from a Ram' fans considering they just drafted an OT #2 overall based purely on potential. Are you gonna tell me Jason Smith was considered the best OT in college last season? Drafting on potential is a risky strategy but one frequently used by NFL teams. |
Yup - and please let us all know when Howies son actually makes a play for the Rams |
There is a huge difference in drafting an Offensive Tackle on potential versus a Quarterback. HUGE DIFFERENCE. The Quarterback is the pulse of your offense. He is supposed to be the leader of the team, decipher defenses, make plays. An offensive tackle, although an important position, doesn't directly control the play of your offense. The Raiders offense will only be as good as JaMarcus.
And about Chris Long, 4 sacks and leading the team in QB pressures is solid for a rookie DE so I don't see what your getting at. |
There's obviously a difference between the Qb's role and the Lt's but i don't know what that has to do with the point you were trying to make...
Drafting a guy based on potential is the point and it doesn't matter which position he is playing. And using the #1 or #2 overall makes it even more similar.
I'm looking forward to the next excuse you're gonna come up with though.
The only point you've brought up to back up your statement in this thread is that since he has all the physical tools but didn't lead the Raiders to more wins, the problem has to be the mental part of the game. Maybe you've missed the fact that the Raiders have been pretty bad well before he was drafted and expecting him to suddenly turn the franchise around in his first season was unrealistic. Especially since, as you've noted, he was a potential pick, hence not a finished product. Don't know about you but it will take a bit more than 16 starts for me to determine if he can ever reach his potential or not. |
You look at teams who have drafted an OT high in the draft that didn't pan out and then you look at teams who have drafted QBs at the top of the draft that didn't pan out. The easy part is seeing which teams had franchise setbacks. The selection of JaMarcus Russell at #1 overall was a huge risk that Al Davis, probably without much discussion, took. If JaMarcus doesn't pan out, it's a major setback, with his potential and raw ability, there was a chance he would succeed and just the same, if not better, chance he wouldn't. Because he plays the QB position, it can cause a major setback in the franchise. The Rams have yet to select one high in the draft and I realize that they most likely will soon. I am hoping they don't take someone based off of potential like JaMarcus. This past draft they took Jason Smith, mostly based off potential. I see your point about both of them being high picks and both being based off of potential, but like I said, OT is well-known as one of the safest positions to draft. If J. Smith succeeds, fantastic, we have a bookend Right Tackle (maybe future Left) on our team. He fails, we try him at guard (See Robert Gallery), and we move on. Our offense doesn't directly flow around J. Smith. It flows around the QB. If JaMarcus fails, the Raiders are going to have to start all over again with another QB.
I did say that JaMarcus has all of the physical tools. You are correct. He got paid millions, does not bother to show up to camp, and apparently doesn't care about what kind of shape he is in. If he really tried, he could be a great QB in this league, so far he hasn't made the right decisions.
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49er guy49
Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 8123
Location: Riverside CA
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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I am not sure how his playing carrer is going to end up.......but he really sucks at being in pictures.
as far as it goes...he cannot read a zone defence....maybe he will improve reading the zone, but i personally feel jeff garcia is the best QB on that team going into next year.
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lesak1313
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 855
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| Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| 49er guy49 wrote: | | I am not sure how his playing carrer is going to end up.......but he really sucks at being in pictures. |
You probably got confused, but we're actually discussing his playing career, not how he looks in pictures.
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