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super_dude3608


Joined: 13 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:47 pm    Post subject: Cushing Reply with quote

I DON'T GET IT!?

Why does everyone like him? I need someone to explain it to me. I watched like half of the USC games last year, and watched all the highlights I could find, and I don't see ANYTHING in him that Zac Diles or Xavier Adibi isn't already doing. These are my main concerns-

Arrow He looks to be a really soft tackler. While he does a good job wrapping up, he doesn't ever lay some wood. He almost always allows the runner to fall forward when met head on. He gets some points for at least being able to wrap up I guess.

Arrow His game speed doesn't really blow me away either. He's almost always the second or third man to meet the ball and then celebrates like he actually did something. His senior season was the only year when he cracked 30 solos (he had 48 which is decent, but that first stat is much more startling than the ladder)

Arrow He's sub par in pass coverage (12 PBU and 1 INT in 4 years). When in coverage, he's usually playing light coverage and just looks to make the tackle after the completion has already been made. If we take Cush, I guarantee Manning to Clark will eat him alive twice a year.

Arrow There's a bunch of HUGE question marks everyone's ignoring too. Has he used steroids is a big one, along with the fact injuries have plagued him the majority of his college career (something we really, REALLY don't need more of). My favorite of all though is that he didn't even play 3 downs in college, why is he going to be able to in the NFL?

Someone clear this up for me. What do you guys see in him?
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Underwood


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think everyone has liked him for quite awhile. There are a few people around who do, but most people either generally think Matthews is better or that we should address the linebacker need later. I would be a tad disappointed if we drafted him.
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Marco79


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Brian Cushing is good, but not great, he has no real potential, he will come in as a rookie and do well and then do the same thing for the next 10 years. I don't see him being bad, I think he does everything average or well, but he does nothing to really pop out.
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CAS22


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't like him, but I don't dislike him. It is another one of those bleh guys for me. He isn't gonna be the savior if we were to take him, but I mean he won't be a complete bust either.

Mse can probably tell you a lot of the good stuff, he really likes Cushing and thinks he will be a good player.
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mse326


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Cushing Reply with quote

super_dude3608 wrote:
I DON'T GET IT!?

Why does everyone like him? I need someone to explain it to me. I watched like half of the USC games last year, and watched all the highlights I could find, and I don't see ANYTHING in him that Zac Diles or Xavier Adibi isn't already doing. These are my main concerns-

Arrow He looks to be a really soft tackler. While he does a good job wrapping up, he doesn't ever lay some wood. He almost always allows the runner to fall forward when met head on. He gets some points for at least being able to wrap up I guess.

Arrow His game speed doesn't really blow me away either. He's almost always the second or third man to meet the ball and then celebrates like he actually did something. His senior season was the only year when he cracked 30 solos (he had 48 which is decent, but that first stat is much more startling than the ladder)

Arrow He's sub par in pass coverage (12 PBU and 1 INT in 4 years). When in coverage, he's usually playing light coverage and just looks to make the tackle after the completion has already been made. If we take Cush, I guarantee Manning to Clark will eat him alive twice a year.

Arrow There's a bunch of HUGE question marks everyone's ignoring too. Has he used steroids is a big one, along with the fact injuries have plagued him the majority of his college career (something we really, REALLY don't need more of). My favorite of all though is that he didn't even play 3 downs in college, why is he going to be able to in the NFL?

Someone clear this up for me. What do you guys see in him?


1. Takling: He can lay the wood. Just because that isn't what people show doesn't mean he can't. Watch full games and you'll see he does. And even if he doesn't who cares. You don't get points for hitting someone hard. You don't lose points for wrapping up. One of the problems with Rey Rey is he always goes for the big hit and misses half the time. Cushing doesn't. And falling forward for half a yard isn't going to make a big deal especially when he is making the tackle closer to the line than Diles.

2. He doesn't look as fast because he is playing next to guys like Rey Rey and Mays. Put him on OSU next to Lauranitis and he'll look like the flash. And the reason he isn't the first to many tackles is because that isn't what he's asked to do. The d-line is one of the best and you have Matthews and Rey Rey attacking the line while he is supposed to lay back to protect against play action and cut backs. Plus like you say later he had some injury problems which limited tackles.

3. Looking at #'s to determine pass coverage ability is ridiculous. Last year Asomugha only had 1 INT and 9 PD's he must be the worst in the league. Rolling Eyes Part of the reason he doesn't have stats is because TE's aren't that great in college and he shuts them down so that the QB doesn't throw to them. Plus when your dpwn by 30 in the 1st quarter you take shots down the field not underneath. He is really good in pass coverage. Again just watching a highlight tape won't show that. You have to watch games. And if you think Clark hasn't ate us alive with Diles your nuts.

4. No one is ignoring all the Question marks so let me address them.
Arrow Steroids: Just because there are rumors means nothing. It is ridiculous how far this took off from some jealous girlfriend posting pictures 3 years apart from each other. And even if he did in high school I seriously doubt he makes it through 4 years at USC and the combine without testing positive if he was on them. To pass him up for that would be stupid.
Arrow Injuries: Yes they are a bit worriesome. But he was healthy all last year and in the past has played through many of the injuries. He clearly has shown the necessary work ethic to come back from an injury as well. And why are you using this and trusting Diles who is coming off a major leg injury. That is contradictory.
Arrow 3 downs: First, many SLB come off the field on 3rd downs. Matthews would have been off the field if he didn't line up as DE or pass rushing OLB. Doesn't mean he can't play 3 downs. That was how Pete Carroll runs his defense. Not playing on 3rd down is not like not covering. Without showing you can cover you don't know whether they can (Matthews) but you can look at what they do on 1st and 2nd and tell if they can play on 3rd down if asked. He can and that isn't that difficult to see. Carroll decided to bring in an extra DB for 3rd downs, that is his perogative as coach. That isn't necessarilly and indictment on who comes out. You take the person out that makes sense. He wants to rush the passer so it doesn't make sense to leave in Cushing and take out Matthews.

All this love for Diles is ridiculous. He couldn't cover, he was just as soft at tackling as you claim Cushing is, and he never got to the line which Cushing does. Cushing is faster and more athletic as well. Diles is just as a mush a wild card in the injury department.

You can't just look at youtube videos randomn people put up there and get a sense of a player. Especially when he isn't a guy that makes the highlight real type plays. You have to watch games.
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super_dude3608


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Cushing Reply with quote

^^^^
super_dude3608 wrote:
I watched like half of the USC games last year

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mse326


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And did you pay attention to Cushing or the game as a whole. Like I said he does what he is asked. Normally that means he won't be at the line and hence won't be the first to the tackle. But, when asked to he is. You don't see him in coverage because the ball doesn't go there.

He isn't someone that jumps out just by watching the game, you have to watch him specifically.
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super_dude3608


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mse326 wrote:
And did you pay attention to Cushing or the game as a whole. Like I said he does what he is asked. Normally that means he won't be at the line and hence won't be the first to the tackle. But, when asked to he is. You don't see him in coverage because the ball doesn't go there.

He isn't someone that jumps out just by watching the game, you have to watch him specifically.
I rewatched 3 of the games, focusing on Matthews and Cushing specifically. And like I said, I noticed nothing special.
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mse326


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you mean nothing special? Like I said he doesn't have highlight reel type plays he is just a solid 'backer that is always around the ball and sticks to TE's.

Did you not see that or do you want to see massive hits and 5 ints from him to be a 1st rounder.
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super_dude3608


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He wraps up well. That's it. We can get that in the 3rd or 4th. Why waste a 1st on him?

Hell, Diles is already able to sit at the line and catch the RB. Why even use a pick at all?


Dude, I WANT to like him. I really do. I just don't get it.
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Houston_texan9


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand why people are so high on him, like people said hes average, we could get that in the third or fourth round, our first rounder should be a game changer not a on par LB. It is a big turn off that Cushing doesn't have highlight film performances, that is really what you look for in a first rounder, the "special" ability on the field and film and Cushing doesn't fit that bill.
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norg


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd rather take him the matthew Matt III size scares me so i would rahter take cushing
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mse326


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

super_dude3608 wrote:
He wraps up well. That's it. We can get that in the 3rd or 4th. Why waste a 1st on him?

Hell, Diles is already able to sit at the line and catch the RB. Why even use a pick at all?


Dude, I WANT to like him. I really do. I just don't get it.


Then your not seeing what I'm seeing.

He wraps up. He also hits hard. He covers better than most backers in the NFL. He gets to the line. He can rush the passer. He has great instincts. He has work ethic. He has size/speed/athleticism combo that very few have. He is far from average.

You all seem to want a highlight reel player but that isn't what a SLB is. That is the "blue collar" position that is lost in that type thinking. Their job is just to make the play and that is what he does. There is a reason that all draft analysts have him as a 1st round prospect. Believe it or not they don't all just follow hype. If all you look for is highlight reel type plays you're asking for trouble. Think of some great 4-3 OLB's. Brooks was not a highlight reel player. Bullock isn't. LeRoy Hill isn't. The position is just not made for that.
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you're under estimating the word average and potential......he will come in and instantly be better than anyone we have at the SAM now and while his ceiling isn't high he will play at an all-pro level from the start......

He does lay the wood and you saying he doesn't means you haven't seen him play....and nothing you can say justifies that...he did the most bench reps for lb meaning he is super strong.....and just by you tubing him you'll see hard hits


ill post more on this in the morning im tired right now
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mse326


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't want to make a new thread for this so I'll put it here.

I'd like to address some things I've heard.

1. Clay Matthews is more explosive. Really? At their pro day he ran a 1.58 10 yard split (nearly a tenth higher from the combine), Cushing also had a 1.58 split (half a tenth higher than at the combine). Brian Cusing was .06 faster in the 3 cone (Pretty much negligible imo), but .04 slower in the 20 shuttle (again though negligible). Overall 40 saw .08 difference (Matthews faster) at the proday. If you think that is gonna make that much of a difference your nuts.

2. Cushing looks soft and only gets in the pile after others. Really? He ranked second on the team this past season with 73 tackles; 46 were solo. That is pretty good amount of solo tackles.

3. He also doesn't get to the line. Really? He had 10.5 TFL. Guess what? That lead the team. Think about that. He had more TFL's than Matthews and Maualuga who do nothing but attack the line. Cushing on the other hand is frequently asked to drop back or at least not make a beline for the line, yet still had more than them. That tells me a lot about game speed (instead of straight in shorts) and recognition skills. Also he was involved 54 running plays. Those plays averaged 2.2 ypc. Shocked That is pretty damn good.

4. He lacks in coverage. Really? He excells there. In terms of #'s 19 of 30 in his area were completed. Now I know that doesn't look good but remember this is area, so frequently not a guy he is specifically covering as he may be in zone. Also remember that these are going to be underneath passes which are completed more frequently. It's also important that he only let up 4.4 yards per attempt. Again this is only if someone in his area catches it, not necessarilly a guy he is supposed to be covering 1-1 and many that you intentionally play back to keep it in front (3rd and longs where if you stop him for 7 yards thats fine).

5. He isn't tough. Really? Just because you get injuries doesn't mean you aren't tough. Admittedly he does have frequent injuries but unless they are serious he plays through them. As evidenced his senior year he had a shoulder contusion and a broken bone that caused him to wear a cast for a month. He still started every game. He can play through injuries and will.

Other things. He was a consensus 1st team all pac-10 at LB. Matthews? 2nd team at DL. Who was ahead you ask? Nick Reed, Fili Moala, Brian Price, and Victor Butler. This is voted on by the 10 coaches who presumably have seen quite a lot of tape and have had to gameplan against them and see them live (pac-10 is one of the few where you play every team in the conference). Cushing was also a 2nd team AP all-american (1st team was Rey Rey, Lauranitis, and Brandon Spikes). Matthews didn't even make 3rd team.

This is clearly an instance of people overrating the surprise and underestimating the consistent. Overrating the huge highlight plays and underrating making all the plays.
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