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Who would you rather have?
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Who would you rather have?
Player A
27%
 27%  [ 30 ]
Player B
68%
 68%  [ 74 ]
Equal
3%
 3%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 108

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JonesDrew32


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 13621
Location: Duval
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:43 pm    Post subject: Who would you rather have? Reply with quote

Take a look at the numbers below and tell me what you think.

Past 3 year averages

Player A
22.8 yards per kickoff return
4 kick return TD's
50 kick returns over 20 yards
6 kick returns over 40 yards
5 kick return fumbles

12.6 yards per punt return
7 punt return TD's
23 punt returns over 20 yards
8 punt returns over 40 yards
12 punt return fumbles

Player B

27.4 yards per kickoff return
4 kick return TD's
109 kick returns over 20 yards
17 kick returns over 40 yards
1 kick return fumble

(Through just 1.5 years of punt returning)
11.1 yards per punt return
1 punt return TD's
8 punt returns over 20 yards
2 punt returns over 40 yards
5 punt return fumbles


As we can see, player A is better than player B at punt returns, however he has a huge fumbling problem, which is not good.

We can also see that player B averages nearly 5 more yards better on kickoff returns and has significantly more 20+ and 40+ returns.

Judging by just return stats, I'd say that they are pretty equal in value. They are both obviously a big threat in the return game and can break one at any time.

Player A and B are both WR's as well. However, Player A gets more chances being on a team with very limited WR's, compared to Player B who's team has a few solid options at WR.

Player A has a couple TD's receiving and a few hundred yards in the past couple seasons, and Player B just has 1 receiving TD in 3 years.

Player B is a special teams gunner, however, and constantly makes plays on kickoff's and punts, amassing 40 solo tackles on punt and kick coverage in 3 seasons whereas Player A has 12 solo tackles, in which 9 came his rookie year when he played defense.

So.

Kick returns- Player B
Punt returns- Player A
WR ability- Slightly player A, thanks to a depleted WR corps
Overall special teams- Player B
Threat to break one- Both


I think they are pretty equal. Player A has a fumbling problem, but his punt return skills are great.

Player B is fantastic at kick returns and limits turnovers. He gets his team to the 40 yard line and beyond more than anybody in the league.

So who would you take based on this information? I'll reveal the names afterwards, although I'm sure they are quite obvious. If they are obvious, please use as little bias as possible. Thanks.
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ukdolfan


Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 8976
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Player B, who I can't seem to work out who it is. (edit - its who I thought it might be but didn't realise he played gunner)

A is pretty obvious though, I think.
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SatireSphere


Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 4321
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll take B, and I think I know who it is.
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Mesa_Titan


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 55995
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we get a list of how many of those fumbles resulted in turnovers? That's what really matters, but as for that list I would probably take A, I know it's Hester and he is an amazing punt returner...

The only thing is, teams kick away from Hester, resulting in better field position for his team, that always goes unnoticed.
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DaBrowns41


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 22934
Location: Reynoldsburg, OH
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mesa_Titan wrote:
Can we get a list of how many of those fumbles resulted in turnovers? That's what really matters, but as for that list I would probably take A, I know it's Hester and he is an amazing punt returner...

The only thing is, teams kick away from Hester, resulting in better field position for his team, that always goes unnoticed.


Teams kick away from both players.

Player A has 5 lost fumbles.

Player B has 3 lost fumbles.

Regardless, when you put it on the ground, it's not good, whether or not you get it back. It's much better to get it back, but 17 fumbles is ridiculous. Some QB's and RB's don't fumble that much.
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Who Dat


Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 294
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Call me crazy, but I'd take Player A. I think that having a good punt returner is more beneficiary than a kickoff returner. Being able to capitalize off of your opponents punts will win you a lot of games, and having good field position off of a punt will almost guarantee you at least a field goal. I think all of that overshadows the increased risk for a fumble.
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Mesa_Titan


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 55995
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaBrowns41 wrote:
Mesa_Titan wrote:
Can we get a list of how many of those fumbles resulted in turnovers? That's what really matters, but as for that list I would probably take A, I know it's Hester and he is an amazing punt returner...

The only thing is, teams kick away from Hester, resulting in better field position for his team, that always goes unnoticed.


Teams kick away from both players.

Player A has 5 lost fumbles.

Player B has 3 lost fumbles.

Regardless, when you put it on the ground, it's not good, whether or not you get it back. It's much better to get it back, but 17 fumbles is ridiculous. Some QB's and RB's don't fumble that much.


Still, when you get it back the fumble means absolutely nothing, there's no arguing that. No other special teamer is avoided more than Hester, no one.
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Who Dat


Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 294
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mesa_Titan wrote:

Still, when you get it back the fumble means absolutely nothing, there's no arguing that. No other special teamer is avoided more than Hester, no one.

I think there's a reason why he didn't list their names. Wink
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Mesa_Titan


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 55995
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who Dat wrote:
Mesa_Titan wrote:

Still, when you get it back the fumble means absolutely nothing, there's no arguing that. No other special teamer is avoided more than Hester, no one.

I think there's a reason why he didn't list their names. Wink


I know that, but it's not hard to figure out who he was talking about...
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Who Dat


Joined: 11 Nov 2007
Posts: 294
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mesa_Titan wrote:
Who Dat wrote:
Mesa_Titan wrote:

Still, when you get it back the fumble means absolutely nothing, there's no arguing that. No other special teamer is avoided more than Hester, no one.

I think there's a reason why he didn't list their names. Wink


I know that, but it's not hard to figure out who he was talking about...

True, I found out while I was reading the post.
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DWILL2LIVES7ON


Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 3879
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this another Cribbs vs. Hester?

I think Hester is A and Cribbs is B.

I would have taken Cribbs reguardless because he is a much more overall important special teams asset.

But if B isn't Cribbs, I'll still take him over A.
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DaBrowns41


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 22934
Location: Reynoldsburg, OH
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So basically if your RB fumbles 25 times in a season (exaggerating, I know), and he only loses 5, are you going to just ignore the fact that he has a fumbling problem?

When you fumble, it's a game of chance. You hope that you are close enough to grab it, or a teammate, and it turns to luck.

Not to mention, you can't just say you'd rather have somebody because you feel like they could possibly break one at any time, especially when the opposing player can break one at any time as well. It's silly.
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Mesa_Titan


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 55995
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaBrowns41 wrote:
So basically if your RB fumbles 25 times in a season (exaggerating, I know), and he only loses 5, are you going to just ignore the fact that he has a fumbling problem?

When you fumble, it's a game of chance. You hope that you are close enough to grab it, or a teammate, and it turns to luck.

Not to mention, you can't just say you'd rather have somebody because you feel like they could possibly break one at any time, especially when the opposing player can break one at any time as well. It's silly.


Or, I could just go by facts and say that player A has broken one 12 more times than player B, thus proving that he is far more likely to take it to the house, no?
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DaBrowns41


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 22934
Location: Reynoldsburg, OH
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mesa_Titan wrote:
DaBrowns41 wrote:
So basically if your RB fumbles 25 times in a season (exaggerating, I know), and he only loses 5, are you going to just ignore the fact that he has a fumbling problem?

When you fumble, it's a game of chance. You hope that you are close enough to grab it, or a teammate, and it turns to luck.

Not to mention, you can't just say you'd rather have somebody because you feel like they could possibly break one at any time, especially when the opposing player can break one at any time as well. It's silly.


Or, I could just go by facts and say that player A has broken one 12 more times than player B, thus proving that he is far more likely to take it to the house, no?


Player A has 11 return TD's compared to Player B's 5 (in the past 3 years).

That's 6 more times, and those are thanks to punts.

If we're talking about punt returns, you can say that you'd rather have player A all you want, and I won't disagree.

If we're talking about overall special teams ability, or even just kickoff's, It's quite clear that Player B is superior.
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Mesa_Titan


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 55995
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaBrowns41 wrote:
Mesa_Titan wrote:
DaBrowns41 wrote:
So basically if your RB fumbles 25 times in a season (exaggerating, I know), and he only loses 5, are you going to just ignore the fact that he has a fumbling problem?

When you fumble, it's a game of chance. You hope that you are close enough to grab it, or a teammate, and it turns to luck.

Not to mention, you can't just say you'd rather have somebody because you feel like they could possibly break one at any time, especially when the opposing player can break one at any time as well. It's silly.


Or, I could just go by facts and say that player A has broken one 12 more times than player B, thus proving that he is far more likely to take it to the house, no?


Player A has 11 return TD's compared to Player B's 5 (in the past 3 years).

That's 6 more times, and those are thanks to punts.

If we're talking about punt returns, you can say that you'd rather have player A all you want, and I won't disagree.

If we're talking about overall special teams ability, or even just kickoff's, It's quite clear that Player B is superior.


Yeah, that's my bad, I misread.

Overall special teams? Sure, I do think player B is better, but as an overall player, I'll take player A.
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