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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:26 pm    Post subject: Not Sure Why The Pats Name Always Comes Up Reply with quote

When it relates to quality WRs but there is no way we can afford this, can we?

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/nfl-4-potential-landing-spots-for-calvin-johnson.html/?a=viewall
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VTPatsFan


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Not Sure Why The Pats Name Always Comes Up Reply with quote

MoJo63 wrote:
When it relates to quality WRs but there is no way we can afford this, can we?

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/nfl-4-potential-landing-spots-for-calvin-johnson.html/?a=viewall


Because the thought of it is awesome.

Think about it, that offense would be unstoppable. Johnson on the outside with LaFell, who by now is drawing only single coverage since Johnson is manning the other side. Edelman in the slot and Gronkowski wherever you want. That's too many people to cover, and whoever you leave one-on-one is most likely going to get open. Maybe less-so for LaFell, but still. If you double Calvin, Gronk and Edelman have one-on-ones, and there are few LBs and Safeties that can cover Gronk effectively one-on-one for an entire game. You double team Gronk, Calvin has single coverage on the outside, allowing for a deeper passing game, with a wideout that can consistently get open. Double team Edelman to prevent short passes (would only work if you have an all-pro pass rush), then Gronk can work the center of the field.

Still, would rather resign the defense and upgrade the offensive line for how much Calvin would cost.
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keysersoze3421


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This would be terrible. Johnson costs way too much for a receiver turning 31 next year, and he wouldn't come cheaply in a trade.
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Donut


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keysersoze3421 wrote:
This would be terrible. Johnson costs way too much for a receiver turning 31 next year, and he wouldn't come cheaply in a trade.

Same story ever year. "Patriots need a deep threat WR #1 WR. They're an ideal fit for [insert vet WR]."
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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Not Sure Why The Pats Name Always Comes Up Reply with quote

VTPatsFan wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
When it relates to quality WRs but there is no way we can afford this, can we?

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/nfl-4-potential-landing-spots-for-calvin-johnson.html/?a=viewall


Because the thought of it is awesome.

Think about it, that offense would be unstoppable. Johnson on the outside with LaFell, who by now is drawing only single coverage since Johnson is manning the other side. Edelman in the slot and Gronkowski wherever you want. That's too many people to cover, and whoever you leave one-on-one is most likely going to get open. Maybe less-so for LaFell, but still. If you double Calvin, Gronk and Edelman have one-on-ones, and there are few LBs and Safeties that can cover Gronk effectively one-on-one for an entire game. You double team Gronk, Calvin has single coverage on the outside, allowing for a deeper passing game, with a wideout that can consistently get open. Double team Edelman to prevent short passes (would only work if you have an all-pro pass rush), then Gronk can work the center of the field.

Still, would rather resign the defense and upgrade the offensive line for how much Calvin would cost.


LOL Bolded text says it all
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Richter


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It goes against their philosophy totally. Everyone figures since they rescued Randy Moss from the scrap heap once upon a time, they're trying to land a receiver of his ilk. But I guarantee the front office prefers having 3 or 4 good threats than one great one, and Johnson is a declining player that would hardly make the offense "unstoppable". What makes it unstoppable is when they have a healthy Edelman, Gronk, Lewis and a respectable fourth option and a healthy offensive line. You're losing one or two of those things, or a bunch of pieces on the defensive side, to make Megatron happen.
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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richter wrote:
It goes against their philosophy totally. Everyone figures since they rescued Randy Moss from the scrap heap once upon a time, they're trying to land a receiver of his ilk. But I guarantee the front office prefers having 3 or 4 good threats than one great one, and Johnson is a declining player that would hardly make the offense "unstoppable". What makes it unstoppable is when they have a healthy Edelman, Gronk, Lewis and a respectable fourth option and a healthy offensive line. You're losing one or two of those things, or a bunch of pieces on the defensive side, to make Megatron happen.


Well, no offense if unstoppable that's just a silly notion. But there is no denying IMO that if that were to happen the Pats offense would be scary as hell. Brady is very very good about ball distribution not because he want to keep everyone happy but because as he once said his favorite receiver is the open one. Johnson along with the current crew would make defenses miserable even at his current age.
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H. Specter


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The scariness is asymptotic though, and the way I see it, the marginal cost of adding Megatron would far exceed the marginal gain. Itís fun to entertain the idea of Brady having a guy like that on the outside but not if it makes us lose some of our important young pieces on defense. I would flip out if they let Hightower or Collins walk because of him. If Brady doesnít fall off a cliff like Manning, this team will be SB contenders again next year. No need to fix things that are not broken (Edelman, Amendola, LaFell, Lewis and Gronkowski is more than good enough in the passing game IMO), and I would much rather have them spend money and draft capital on the offensive line and RBs.
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Richter


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoJo63 wrote:
Richter wrote:
It goes against their philosophy totally. Everyone figures since they rescued Randy Moss from the scrap heap once upon a time, they're trying to land a receiver of his ilk. But I guarantee the front office prefers having 3 or 4 good threats than one great one, and Johnson is a declining player that would hardly make the offense "unstoppable". What makes it unstoppable is when they have a healthy Edelman, Gronk, Lewis and a respectable fourth option and a healthy offensive line. You're losing one or two of those things, or a bunch of pieces on the defensive side, to make Megatron happen.


Well, no offense if unstoppable that's just a silly notion. But there is no denying IMO that if that were to happen the Pats offense would be scary as hell. Brady is very very good about ball distribution not because he want to keep everyone happy but because as he once said his favorite receiver is the open one. Johnson along with the current crew would make defenses miserable even at his current age.

The Patriots run a ball control offense, and there are only so many touches to go around. Megatron is far more useful as an intermediate to deep threat. Are you going to pay a guy a significant part of your salary cap to have him go deep a few times a game? Or are you expecting him to work underneath a lot? It really doesn't make sense either way. Gronk and Edelman are going to get their touches, whoever is catching passes out of the backfield will too, so whoever that fourth guy is needs to be cheaper and willing to take more of a complimentary role, unless you're going to reconfigure the offense.
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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richter wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:
Richter wrote:
It goes against their philosophy totally. Everyone figures since they rescued Randy Moss from the scrap heap once upon a time, they're trying to land a receiver of his ilk. But I guarantee the front office prefers having 3 or 4 good threats than one great one, and Johnson is a declining player that would hardly make the offense "unstoppable". What makes it unstoppable is when they have a healthy Edelman, Gronk, Lewis and a respectable fourth option and a healthy offensive line. You're losing one or two of those things, or a bunch of pieces on the defensive side, to make Megatron happen.


Well, no offense if unstoppable that's just a silly notion. But there is no denying IMO that if that were to happen the Pats offense would be scary as hell. Brady is very very good about ball distribution not because he want to keep everyone happy but because as he once said his favorite receiver is the open one. Johnson along with the current crew would make defenses miserable even at his current age.

The Patriots run a ball control offense, and there are only so many touches to go around. Megatron is far more useful as an intermediate to deep threat. Are you going to pay a guy a significant part of your salary cap to have him go deep a few times a game? Or are you expecting him to work underneath a lot? It really doesn't make sense either way. Gronk and Edelman are going to get their touches, whoever is catching passes out of the backfield will too, so whoever that fourth guy is needs to be cheaper and willing to take more of a complimentary role, unless you're going to reconfigure the offense.
]

If the price is right which we are all taking about, hence the restructuring comments hell yeah. The ability to stretch the field opens up more option for the middle of the field and short to intermediate passing game, not to mention how it would effect the run game. Ball control would still very much be in play, this league is very much about exploitation and if added megatron makes it very difficult to account for all weapons. And having the same QB and coach for 16 years you can bet there are already played in place to accommodate that. Ala the Randy Moss years things were not to bad in 07
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H. Specter


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoJo63 wrote:

If the price is right which we are all taking about, hence the restructuring comments hell yeah. The ability to stretch the field opens up more option for the middle of the field and short to intermediate passing game, not to mention how it would effect the run game. Ball control would still very much be in play, this league is very much about exploitation and if added megatron makes it very difficult to account for all weapons. And having the same QB and coach for 16 years you can bet there are already played in place to accommodate that. Ala the Randy Moss years things were not to bad in 07


Whatís the right price though? I mean, if the price is right I would gladly take JJ Watt too but thatís never going to happen. Iím no cap guru but it seems highly unlikely that they can add Calvin, and still keep Hightower, Collins and Jones. Would you be okay with one or two of those walking to add an aging and declining Megatron? Unless he takes pennies to play for the Patriots, I hope this ends with the idea.
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keysersoze3421


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

H. Specter wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:

If the price is right which we are all taking about, hence the restructuring comments hell yeah. The ability to stretch the field opens up more option for the middle of the field and short to intermediate passing game, not to mention how it would effect the run game. Ball control would still very much be in play, this league is very much about exploitation and if added megatron makes it very difficult to account for all weapons. And having the same QB and coach for 16 years you can bet there are already played in place to accommodate that. Ala the Randy Moss years things were not to bad in 07


Whatís the right price though? I mean, if the price is right I would gladly take JJ Watt too but thatís never going to happen. Iím no cap guru but it seems highly unlikely that they can add Calvin, and still keep Hightower, Collins and Jones. Would you be okay with one or two of those walking to add an aging and declining Megatron? Unless he takes pennies to play for the Patriots, I hope this ends with the idea.


Not only them, but Butler and Ryan are both free agents after next year.
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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

H. Specter wrote:
MoJo63 wrote:

If the price is right which we are all taking about, hence the restructuring comments hell yeah. The ability to stretch the field opens up more option for the middle of the field and short to intermediate passing game, not to mention how it would effect the run game. Ball control would still very much be in play, this league is very much about exploitation and if added megatron makes it very difficult to account for all weapons. And having the same QB and coach for 16 years you can bet there are already played in place to accommodate that. Ala the Randy Moss years things were not to bad in 07


Whatís the right price though? I mean, if the price is right I would gladly take JJ Watt too but thatís never going to happen. Iím no cap guru but it seems highly unlikely that they can add Calvin, and still keep Hightower, Collins and Jones. Would you be okay with one or two of those walking to add an aging and declining Megatron? Unless he takes pennies to play for the Patriots, I hope this ends with the idea.


I don't know what the price is or even if there is right price. We are talking hypotheticals here. If's and if it were to happen there is no denying the offense would be more dynamic that what the conversation had turned into.

We all know this likely will not happen in fact I say there is a 98% chance it will not for a lot of reasons. 1. The Lions would have to allow a traded of some sort to take place, and the compensation they would want would be off the charts. 2. CJ would have to renegotiate which would mean his taking less money, how often does that happen with a premiere WR? 3. His effect on the cap. It simply won't happen, but in hypotheticals he would indeed make this a scary offense.
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keysersoze3421


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we're talking hypotheticals, Julio Jones, Antonio Brown, DeAndre Hopkins, and OBJ would all be great adds to the roster.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donut wrote:
keysersoze3421 wrote:
This would be terrible. Johnson costs way too much for a receiver turning 31 next year, and he wouldn't come cheaply in a trade.

Same story ever year. "Patriots need a deep threat WR #1 WR. They're an ideal fit for [insert vet WR]."


And it will be a topic of conversation every year until the Pats get one. No one was saying that when Moss was on the outside. Teams have been flooding the passing zones and a legit deep threat would reduce the # of time that the defenses would align themselves as so.
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