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justin_perkins


Joined: 31 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:02 pm    Post subject: Patriots Mock Reply with quote



Mel Kiper Jr. on the Patriots 1st round pick-
Quote:
The New England Patriots are now on the clock; and given their history this pick is highly likely to be shipped out. And with the clock dwindling down, it's makes you ponder what the master mind, Bill Belichick, will do. However, if they do stay put, expect to see a corner, a lineman on either side, or a receiver.


Round 1, Pick 32 The New England Patriots select ... Malcom Brown, DT, Texas

Expert Take-
Quote:
He plays low off the snap, is athletic and quick. Powerful upperbody and light on his feet. Always knows where the ball is. Point blank: He's too good to consistently single-team him. He's a great fit on the Matt Patricia d-line. His best fit projects as an interior d-lineman in a 4-3. Next to Easley, he'll be in a formidable combo and should dominate right away in the NFL


Round 2, Pick 64 The New England Patriots select ... Nelson Agholor, WR, USC

Expert Take-
Quote:
A great route runner who gives 110% every snap and knows how to get open. He has a high football IQ. Very quick to react. He was gifted with good hands. He's also a dangerous return threat anytime a team is punting to him


3-96: Cedric Ogbuehi, OL, Texas A&M. 1st round talent who falls due to injury. Can play tackle or guard.
3-97: Duke Johnson, RB, Miami. Great compliment for Blount and gives us future insurance/starter.
4-101: Doran Grant, DB, Ohio State. We need corners.
4-131: Adrian Amos, DB, Penn State. We need corners. He can play safety too Wink
6-178: Jamil Douglas, OL, Arizona State. Plug and play lineman. Big and controlling. High ceiling on the right team.
7-219: Lynden Trail, DL, Norfolk State. Low risk-high reward. Freak of nature who could carve a nice niche as a 3-down pass rusher.
7-253: Jeff Luc, LB, Cincinnati. Linebacker depth, unless you're okay with Deontae Skinner being the 4th backer.
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patsfan25


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a bad haul. Great job and thank you for your presentation.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will be pretty disappointed if the Pats don't address CB in a meaningful way. Taking two guys who are below Logan Ryan or Alfonzo Dennard in ability level doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Granted, Dennard has durability issues and is a FA at the end of the year, but any mid-late round pick is going to have to beat out Ryan, Arrington, Butler and Dennard for a roster spot and I just don't see that as being likely.

And I think Agholor and Ogbuehi are both top 40 picks.
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patsfan25


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
I will be pretty disappointed if the Pats don't address CB in a meaningful way. Taking two guys who are below Logan Ryan or Alfonzo Dennard in ability level doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Granted, Dennard has durability issues and is a FA at the end of the year, but any mid-late round pick is going to have to beat out Ryan, Arrington, Butler and Dennard for a roster spot and I just don't see that as being likely.

And I think Agholor and Ogbuehi are both top 40 picks.


I think the need for a CB has become overstated. Losing Revis and Browner sucked, and there's a transparent need to replace that position compared to what we had there before. But the Pats have signed 3 guys and right now, there are considerably 7 roster-able players at that position. I would like a CB early, especially since I like this class for some reason, but the only CB I really see the Pats taking is Ifo from Oregon, and only because he's going to most likely have a redshirt rookie season if so. I see them going interior offensive line, RB, WR and interior defensive line in that order. I don't care much for a WR as I think we can get by with that we have, but they have been tailing pass catchers all off-season.
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m haynes


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Pats do need a CB this draft however I do not want to see them reach for one, especially in the 1st round. The only one I see ( with talent) at 32 would be Peters but IMO he is a problem waiting to happen. I don't want to see a WR early however if there is one clearly better than whats left on the board that fine. Based on the way this draft might fall, I see OL DT at 32. I wouldn't mind a trade, I think the 2nd has a lot of quality in the Pats area of needs. Trades into the 2nd could yield at highly rate DL and OL. For example, this is just a example. Goldman and Irving.
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mattyl13


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

patsfan25 wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
I will be pretty disappointed if the Pats don't address CB in a meaningful way. Taking two guys who are below Logan Ryan or Alfonzo Dennard in ability level doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Granted, Dennard has durability issues and is a FA at the end of the year, but any mid-late round pick is going to have to beat out Ryan, Arrington, Butler and Dennard for a roster spot and I just don't see that as being likely.

And I think Agholor and Ogbuehi are both top 40 picks.


I think the need for a CB has become overstated. Losing Revis and Browner sucked, and there's a transparent need to replace that position compared to what we had there before. But the Pats have signed 3 guys and right now, there are considerably 7 roster-able players at that position. I would like a CB early, especially since I like this class for some reason, but the only CB I really see the Pats taking is Ifo from Oregon, and only because he's going to most likely have a redshirt rookie season if so. I see them going interior offensive line, RB, WR and interior defensive line in that order. I don't care much for a WR as I think we can get by with that we have, but they have been tailing pass catchers all off-season.


I don't think the need for CB is overstated at all, they have a lot of bodies, maybe even a couple #2ish types, but I don't think they have any real top end talent at the position. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see Dennard not on the final roster. Hopefully a CB that they like will be available towards the end of the first where they could either trade up a few spots or nab him at 32.

As for interior OL, I'm not sure I want that at the end of the first. I feel like they could still get a really good player in the second (maybe the guy they want wont last until 64, but somewhere up in the second).
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patsfan25 wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
I will be pretty disappointed if the Pats don't address CB in a meaningful way. Taking two guys who are below Logan Ryan or Alfonzo Dennard in ability level doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Granted, Dennard has durability issues and is a FA at the end of the year, but any mid-late round pick is going to have to beat out Ryan, Arrington, Butler and Dennard for a roster spot and I just don't see that as being likely.

And I think Agholor and Ogbuehi are both top 40 picks.


I think the need for a CB has become overstated. Losing Revis and Browner sucked, and there's a transparent need to replace that position compared to what we had there before. But the Pats have signed 3 guys and right now, there are considerably 7 roster-able players at that position. I would like a CB early, especially since I like this class for some reason, but the only CB I really see the Pats taking is Ifo from Oregon, and only because he's going to most likely have a redshirt rookie season if so. I see them going interior offensive line, RB, WR and interior defensive line in that order. I don't care much for a WR as I think we can get by with that we have, but they have been tailing pass catchers all off-season.


The guys they signed at CB aren't good players. Fletcher was just about the worst CB in the league last year and McClain is maybe a low end 2. And unlike G and RB, it's a tough position to find mid/low round talent with starting upside.

DT is a need but I don't see them going 3 technique early with Easley still unknown. There isn't a ton at NT that seems like what they'd want - a guy who can play on all 3 downs and be scheme versatile.

Not coming out of the top 50 picks with a CB would be a major disappointment to me unless there are plans to get a quality veteran.
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bluemushrooms


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work on the mock.

I don't want to beat a dead horse but...as some people know I'm not a huge fan of Duke Johnson so I'd pass on him in the 3rd.
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patsfan25


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
I will be pretty disappointed if the Pats don't address CB in a meaningful way. Taking two guys who are below Logan Ryan or Alfonzo Dennard in ability level doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Granted, Dennard has durability issues and is a FA at the end of the year, but any mid-late round pick is going to have to beat out Ryan, Arrington, Butler and Dennard for a roster spot and I just don't see that as being likely.

And I think Agholor and Ogbuehi are both top 40 picks.


I think the need for a CB has become overstated. Losing Revis and Browner sucked, and there's a transparent need to replace that position compared to what we had there before. But the Pats have signed 3 guys and right now, there are considerably 7 roster-able players at that position. I would like a CB early, especially since I like this class for some reason, but the only CB I really see the Pats taking is Ifo from Oregon, and only because he's going to most likely have a redshirt rookie season if so. I see them going interior offensive line, RB, WR and interior defensive line in that order. I don't care much for a WR as I think we can get by with that we have, but they have been tailing pass catchers all off-season.


The guys they signed at CB aren't good players. Fletcher was just about the worst CB in the league last year and McClain is maybe a low end 2. And unlike G and RB, it's a tough position to find mid/low round talent with starting upside.

DT is a need but I don't see them going 3 technique early with Easley still unknown. There isn't a ton at NT that seems like what they'd want - a guy who can play on all 3 downs and be scheme versatile.

Not coming out of the top 50 picks with a CB would be a major disappointment to me unless there are plans to get a quality veteran.


Given the prospect pool, who do you think can be drafted to come in right away and be a viable starter at CB? Especially in this defense, and how hard it is to translate at the next level? The opportunity to get that was in FA, and they went with a bargain plan. The assumed starters/snap holders at this point will be Fletcher, Ryan, Arrington and McClain. It's not a high end group, but a very competitive group with good depth. Like I said, I would have liked a CB early in FA/Draft, but I think BB is done with his CB personnel given what he went with in FA.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patsfan25 wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
I will be pretty disappointed if the Pats don't address CB in a meaningful way. Taking two guys who are below Logan Ryan or Alfonzo Dennard in ability level doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Granted, Dennard has durability issues and is a FA at the end of the year, but any mid-late round pick is going to have to beat out Ryan, Arrington, Butler and Dennard for a roster spot and I just don't see that as being likely.

And I think Agholor and Ogbuehi are both top 40 picks.


I think the need for a CB has become overstated. Losing Revis and Browner sucked, and there's a transparent need to replace that position compared to what we had there before. But the Pats have signed 3 guys and right now, there are considerably 7 roster-able players at that position. I would like a CB early, especially since I like this class for some reason, but the only CB I really see the Pats taking is Ifo from Oregon, and only because he's going to most likely have a redshirt rookie season if so. I see them going interior offensive line, RB, WR and interior defensive line in that order. I don't care much for a WR as I think we can get by with that we have, but they have been tailing pass catchers all off-season.


The guys they signed at CB aren't good players. Fletcher was just about the worst CB in the league last year and McClain is maybe a low end 2. And unlike G and RB, it's a tough position to find mid/low round talent with starting upside.

DT is a need but I don't see them going 3 technique early with Easley still unknown. There isn't a ton at NT that seems like what they'd want - a guy who can play on all 3 downs and be scheme versatile.

Not coming out of the top 50 picks with a CB would be a major disappointment to me unless there are plans to get a quality veteran.


Given the prospect pool, who do you think can be drafted to come in right away and be a viable starter at CB? Especially in this defense, and how hard it is to translate at the next level? The opportunity to get that was in FA, and they went with a bargain plan. The assumed starters/snap holders at this point will be Fletcher, Ryan, Arrington and McClain. It's not a high end group, but a very competitive group with good depth. Like I said, I would have liked a CB early in FA/Draft, but I think BB is done with his CB personnel given what he went with in FA.


Rowe and Johnson could be day 1 starters for sure. Probably Darby. Maybe Jones. And I bet all of those guys could be week 8 starters. Beating out fringe talent like Fletcher and Chekwa isn't hard and we've seen rookie CB be given big roles right away.

And I don't see a competitive group as meaningful when it's a bunch of backups competing to see which is the least mediocre. By your definition they had a deep and competitive group in 2011 also. Having lots of JAG types doesn't really qualify as good depth IMO. You need actual starting caliber players and the only one of those they have is maybe Dennard if he can regain his form and stay healthy. Sure, Butler or Ryan could surprise but you can't count on those types of guys to take big steps forward.
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MoJo63


Joined: 20 Apr 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Patriots Mock Reply with quote

justin_perkins wrote:


Mel Kiper Jr. on the Patriots 1st round pick-
Quote:
The New England Patriots are now on the clock; and given their history this pick is highly likely to be shipped out. And with the clock dwindling down, it's makes you ponder what the master mind, Bill Belichick, will do. However, if they do stay put, expect to see a corner, a lineman on either side, or a receiver.


Round 1, Pick 32 The New England Patriots select ... Malcom Brown, DT, Texas

Expert Take-
Quote:
He plays low off the snap, is athletic and quick. Powerful upperbody and light on his feet. Always knows where the ball is. Point blank: He's too good to consistently single-team him. He's a great fit on the Matt Patricia d-line. His best fit projects as an interior d-lineman in a 4-3. Next to Easley, he'll be in a formidable combo and should dominate right away in the NFL


Round 2, Pick 64 The New England Patriots select ... Nelson Agholor, WR, USC

Expert Take-
Quote:
A great route runner who gives 110% every snap and knows how to get open. He has a high football IQ. Very quick to react. He was gifted with good hands. He's also a dangerous return threat anytime a team is punting to him


3-96: Cedric Ogbuehi, OL, Texas A&M. 1st round talent who falls due to injury. Can play tackle or guard.
3-97: Duke Johnson, RB, Miami. Great compliment for Blount and gives us future insurance/starter.
4-101: Doran Grant, DB, Ohio State. We need corners.
4-131: Adrian Amos, DB, Penn State. We need corners. He can play safety too Wink
6-178: Jamil Douglas, OL, Arizona State. Plug and play lineman. Big and controlling. High ceiling on the right team.
7-219: Lynden Trail, DL, Norfolk State. Low risk-high reward. Freak of nature who could carve a nice niche as a 3-down pass rusher.
7-253: Jeff Luc, LB, Cincinnati. Linebacker depth, unless you're okay with Deontae Skinner being the 4th backer.


I just can't see taking a RB or WR this early. IMO Priority needs to be DT, OG, CB, OG, Rush LB then maybe RB, DE. The Pats are stocked at the RB Position. Blount, Bolden, Gaffney, Gray, Cadet no need to jump on a RB early
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keysersoze3421


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although I agree with your position that WR and RB are not as pressing needs as DT, OG, and CB, RB is definitely a position of need. The players you mentioned, besides Cadet, are all virtually the same player. Cadet is a good pass catcher, but he's not much of a running back. We need a player to operate out of the Vereen role, and none of the players you mentioned have that talent.
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I_GET_SAX


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have people soured completely on Ajayi in here since the injury news? I remember the stat I posted in here about short yardage conversion rates for this class' RB class and he was too and I like his versatility. I also like Yeldon but I am a Bama fan too lol. Think he has a lot of experience as a pass catcher with how Bama utilizes the RBs and the screen game. He did have some troubles with fumbles but he is a decent option in the 4th or later.
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MoJo63


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keysersoze3421 wrote:
Although I agree with your position that WR and RB are not as pressing needs as DT, OG, and CB, RB is definitely a position of need. The players you mentioned, besides Cadet, are all virtually the same player. Cadet is a good pass catcher, but he's not much of a running back. We need a player to operate out of the Vereen role, and none of the players you mentioned have that talent.



And they have already stated Gaffney can fill that role as well as Cadet which is why they got him. Great hands both he and Gaffney can catch out of the backfield. That IMO is why taking a RB early IMO is a waste when there are other needs.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MoJo63 wrote:
keysersoze3421 wrote:
Although I agree with your position that WR and RB are not as pressing needs as DT, OG, and CB, RB is definitely a position of need. The players you mentioned, besides Cadet, are all virtually the same player. Cadet is a good pass catcher, but he's not much of a running back. We need a player to operate out of the Vereen role, and none of the players you mentioned have that talent.



And they have already stated Gaffney can fill that role as well as Cadet which is why they got him. Great hands both he and Gaffney can catch out of the backfield. That IMO is why taking a RB early IMO is a waste when there are other needs.


Gaffney can't play that role, he's nowhere bear athletic enough. He's a straight line grinder who can catch a bit.

Cadet can catch but he's not very talented and is unlikely to make the team. He's not a weapon other teams have to account for.

I think they have to find a dynamic RB because that role is too important to leave to fringe talent and roster fodder.
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