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Who was more important?

 
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Who was more important as a player?
Ray Lewis
90%
 90%  [ 18 ]
Ed Reed
10%
 10%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 20

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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 2:03 pm    Post subject: Who was more important? Reply with quote

Kind of stemming from the NFL News discussion of Ray vs. Ed, I want to know a couple of things:

1) Who was more important, as a player, to the defense (the poll question)?

2) Who was more important as an overall contributor to the team?

And this is factoring in how their losses impacted the team afterwards, how the team played when they were injured, etc.

I think Ed was more important as a player, but Ray was the heart and soul.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray Lewis, pretty easily. Many within the game considered him the best player in the NFL regardless of position in the early 2000's. In no way would that represent a knock against Ed, rather, it's a testament to how great Lewis was.

One thing I'm pretty interested in as of late is the Pro Football Reference Approximate Value Rankings. It's a very rough attempt at a win-shares type metric for football. Admittedly (per the creators) its incredibly raw and imprecise. FWIW, though, it put's Lewis at #7 all-time (sandwiched between Bruce Smith and Dan Marino), while Reed is at #75. Again, it's incredibly rough and doesn't really "prove" anything*, I just thought it was interesting.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/av_career.htm

*Similar to baseball WAR or other similar measurements, it will favor longer careers vs. prime peaks, which is obviously a disadvantage for Ed.
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess it depends on what you mean by 'the defense' - what's the timeframe we're looking at? There were a couple of years where Ed may have outperformed Ray (2004 for example), but on the whole, Ray's was a high-level player for much longer than Ed was and his prime was better as well. Ray Lewis was arguably the best player in the NFL around the year 2000 and was the dominant force/MVP of one of the best defenses of all time.

Then you add in the fact that Ray was the leader and in many ways the defensive coordinator of the team, it's not even close. Ed Reed was an incredible player and the 2nd or 3rd best Raven of all time, depending on how you stack him up against Ogden. But Ray is far and away the greatest.
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DarkComet00


Joined: 16 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: Who was more important? Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Kind of stemming from the NFL News discussion of Ray vs. Ed, I want to know a couple of things:

1) Who was more important, as a player, to the defense (the poll question)?

2) Who was more important as an overall contributor to the team?

And this is factoring in how their losses impacted the team afterwards, how the team played when they were injured, etc.

I think Ed was more important as a player, but Ray was the heart and soul.
This is Ray and quite easily. Ed was more important as a player? How did you come to this conclusion? Honestly, how long have you been watching the Ravens?
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RayReed2052


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Who was more important? Reply with quote

DarkComet00 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Kind of stemming from the NFL News discussion of Ray vs. Ed, I want to know a couple of things:

1) Who was more important, as a player, to the defense (the poll question)?

2) Who was more important as an overall contributor to the team?

And this is factoring in how their losses impacted the team afterwards, how the team played when they were injured, etc.

I think Ed was more important as a player, but Ray was the heart and soul.
This is Ray and quite easily. Ed was more important as a player? How did you come to this conclusion? Honestly, how long have you been watching the Ravens?


He said the first Ravens game he watched was in 2008 IIRC, which would make sense.

This is Ray and it's not even close.
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DarkComet00


Joined: 16 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Who was more important? Reply with quote

RayReed2052 wrote:
DarkComet00 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Kind of stemming from the NFL News discussion of Ray vs. Ed, I want to know a couple of things:

1) Who was more important, as a player, to the defense (the poll question)?

2) Who was more important as an overall contributor to the team?

And this is factoring in how their losses impacted the team afterwards, how the team played when they were injured, etc.

I think Ed was more important as a player, but Ray was the heart and soul.
This is Ray and quite easily. Ed was more important as a player? How did you come to this conclusion? Honestly, how long have you been watching the Ravens?


He said the first Ravens game he watched was in 2008 IIRC, which would make sense.

This is Ray and it's not even close.
Yeah, I figured it couldn't be too long. I can understand starting to watch it in 2008 and thinking that might be the case.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Who was more important? Reply with quote

DarkComet00 wrote:
RayReed2052 wrote:
DarkComet00 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Kind of stemming from the NFL News discussion of Ray vs. Ed, I want to know a couple of things:

1) Who was more important, as a player, to the defense (the poll question)?

2) Who was more important as an overall contributor to the team?

And this is factoring in how their losses impacted the team afterwards, how the team played when they were injured, etc.

I think Ed was more important as a player, but Ray was the heart and soul.
This is Ray and quite easily. Ed was more important as a player? How did you come to this conclusion? Honestly, how long have you been watching the Ravens?


He said the first Ravens game he watched was in 2008 IIRC, which would make sense.

This is Ray and it's not even close.
Yeah, I figured it couldn't be too long. I can understand starting to watch it in 2008 and thinking that might be the case.


Especially since Ed would have been in his 7th season, while Ray was in his 13th.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 2:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Who was more important? Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:
DarkComet00 wrote:
RayReed2052 wrote:
DarkComet00 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Kind of stemming from the NFL News discussion of Ray vs. Ed, I want to know a couple of things:

1) Who was more important, as a player, to the defense (the poll question)?

2) Who was more important as an overall contributor to the team?

And this is factoring in how their losses impacted the team afterwards, how the team played when they were injured, etc.

I think Ed was more important as a player, but Ray was the heart and soul.
This is Ray and quite easily. Ed was more important as a player? How did you come to this conclusion? Honestly, how long have you been watching the Ravens?


He said the first Ravens game he watched was in 2008 IIRC, which would make sense.

This is Ray and it's not even close.
Yeah, I figured it couldn't be too long. I can understand starting to watch it in 2008 and thinking that might be the case.


Especially since Ed would have been in his 7th season, while Ray was in his 13th.


Yeah I guess having not watched the Ravens from 2002-2007 may have a heavy impact on my view here. It's still interesting to see what you guys say though!

Just FWIW, what would you guys say for 2008 onward?
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You could put Bradford under center with Seahawks and win a SB.

onejayhawk on if Flacco got hurt wrote:
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RavensfanRD


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's Ray Lewis, but I chose Ed Reed on the poll because he's my favorite Raven of all-time. But Ray Lewis was a magician. He could bring folks together and do all sorts of things. You may never see a Ray Lewis again.
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wackywabbit


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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's going to be an issue talking to kids who didn't watch football before 2004: they don't know how important the MLB position was, before the NFL made pass defense illegal.

Not that I was able to seriously follow the game back in 2000 myself. Razz But, you look at the rushing offenses back in 2000, specifically in the AFC Central division: (Rushing YPG/Total YPG)

Titans- 130.2/334.4
Ravens- 137.4/313.4
Steelers- 140.5/297.9
Jaguars- 127.0/355.6
Bengals- 144.6/266.2
Browns- 67.8/220.6 ... cuz Browns

In THAT type of game, the Ravens had the most dominant run defense of all time. 970 yards on 2.69 YPC, both records (sb era at least).

So yea, while you could make the case that prime Ed Reed could be more valuable for a single season in today's game, Ray was more important when he played.
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Integrity


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clearly its Ed Reed because special teams is still defense! (sarcasm)



Seriously, I almost spit cause I laughed that hard at the thread SNA referred to.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Integrity wrote:
Clearly its Ed Reed because special teams is still defense! (sarcasm)



Seriously, I almost spit cause I laughed that hard at the thread SNA referred to.


If you wanna talk special teams, let's not forget about that block ray had against Denver on the Mcallister missed fg return!

Smile
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:
Integrity wrote:
Clearly its Ed Reed because special teams is still defense! (sarcasm)



Seriously, I almost spit cause I laughed that hard at the thread SNA referred to.


If you wanna talk special teams, let's not forget about that block ray had against Denver on the Mcallister missed fg return!

Smile


Nope, not Special Teams defense Wink Laughing Laughing
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BladeKor wrote:
You could put Bradford under center with Seahawks and win a SB.

onejayhawk on if Flacco got hurt wrote:
The Ravens with Schaub win a tough division.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
Integrity wrote:
Clearly its Ed Reed because special teams is still defense! (sarcasm)



Seriously, I almost spit cause I laughed that hard at the thread SNA referred to.


If you wanna talk special teams, let's not forget about that block ray had against Denver on the Mcallister missed fg return!

Smile


Nope, not Special Teams defense Wink Laughing Laughing


True, that's Special Teams offense, I guess... Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it has to go to Ray Lewis. Ed Reed was great at what he did on the field, but Ray did so much more for this team not only on the field he was superior at his position, but also on the sidelines he was the team motivator all of the time.
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