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BobBrown


Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 5189
Location: P-Cola, FL
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spush wrote:
Bob, you can call every QB stat individual if you'd like. Sure QB rating is, but since both our QB's took nearl every snap (minus week 17 for us), they're all relevant. Especially since the QB touches the ball on every play


And again, I think its more than relevant the Steelers playing with 3 TD leads in the first 4-6 games and drowing the playbook to eat clock while your team threw for its life. We play different styles b/c our defense had the capabilities to win football games so your yards/play is skewed by circumstance


longest completion - Pittsburgh
3rd down efficiency - Pittsburgh
INTs in red zone - Pittsburgh
INT's inside own 20 - Cleveland
TD/Att - Steelers
1st downs/att - Steelers
CMP % (close games) - Steelers
CMP % (late and close) - Steelers

Here are some more stats for you to play with

other than your team just throwing the ball more often and the numbers that go with it, your efficiency numbers arent that good. Some numbers our teams are close, but alot of them we take it by a landslide.

Its showing me your offense isnt as explosive as I initially thought. They just had to throw for their lives and caught "lightening in a bottle"


OK, here is my compromise:

I will answer all of your questions (as usual) if you just explain to me how your play book was "drowned" when you scored 17 2nd half points in Cleveland, 2 2nd half TDs (with over 180 yards of offense in the 2nd half alone) against Buffalo, and 23 2nd half points (including 20 in the 4th quarter) against SF.



<woot> 100 pages Shocked
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SteelyMcBeam


Joined: 17 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This tread began with me just asking what people thought the Stats would be in the first game ! Shocked
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the case is a sham and on nfl network said that ga dose not need d and a from ben because... said i can get some money out of this d and a dont lie and again there is no proof
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Keyzer Soze


Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 295
Location: Chicago, IL
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BobBrown wrote:
Keyzer Soze wrote:
I'll worry about the Browns when they become relevant. Having a decent year last year, and having "high expectations" this year does not make you relevant.


OK...you do that.

I guess your definition of relevant means that the Browns must beat you in week #2. But, of course, then your definition will change to a sweep, then a playoff win, then we will need to beat you for 4 straight years while you rebuild, then we will have to win 4 out of 5 SBs, then we will have to.....uh?

Speaking of definitions, do you know the one for the word "rhetoric"?



You spend all day on a Steelers message board replying to everything everyone says. Nice job.
Of course, if you were on the Browns board, you'd have nothing to discuss, except for hopefully beating the Steelers. Rolling Eyes
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BobBrown


Joined: 19 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keyzer Soze wrote:
BobBrown wrote:
Keyzer Soze wrote:
I'll worry about the Browns when they become relevant. Having a decent year last year, and having "high expectations" this year does not make you relevant.


OK...you do that.

I guess your definition of relevant means that the Browns must beat you in week #2. But, of course, then your definition will change to a sweep, then a playoff win, then we will need to beat you for 4 straight years while you rebuild, then we will have to win 4 out of 5 SBs, then we will have to.....uh?

Speaking of definitions, do you know the one for the word "rhetoric"?



You spend all day on a Steelers message board replying to everything everyone says. Nice job.
Of course, if you were on the Browns board, you'd have nothing to discuss, except for hopefully beating the Steelers. Rolling Eyes


I'm not sure how your post has anything to do with the topic you were responding to (and even quoted), so I assume you want to know what I post about besides "learnin' you po' Stillers 'bout sum fooseball"

so here http://footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/search.php?search_author=BobBrown
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Sandwiche


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, 100 fricken pages. Can we trash this thread. Training camp is started which means words no longer mean anything, action counts. I think a lot of people are getting tired of this thing.
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spush


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BobBrown wrote:

OK, here is my compromise:

I will answer all of your questions (as usual) if you just explain to me how your play book was "drowned" when you scored 17 2nd half points in Cleveland, 2 2nd half TDs (with over 180 yards of offense in the 2nd half alone) against Buffalo, and 23 2nd half points (including 20 in the 4th quarter) against SF.


As you wish

Steelers vs Browns week 1: The last 19 offensive plays from scrimmage for the Steelers that didnt result in a punt were run plays. You'd figure even as bad as Grantham was, after about a dozen he'd stack the box. Not my fault you couldnt stop it but not exactly stat padding for the Steelers in my book.

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/pbp.asp?gamecode=20070909005&home=5&vis=23

Steelers vs Bills week 2 19 of the last 26 offensive plays for Pittsburgh were run plays yet again nursing a 16pt lead going into the 4th QTR

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/pbp.asp?gamecode=20070916023&home=23&vis=2

Steelers vs SF week 3 over 100 yards of total offense in the 4th QTR. Out of that, 5 were pass plays and 3 fell incomplete and totaled 35 of those yards

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/pbp.asp?gamecode=20070923023&home=23&vis=25

Steelers vs Seattle week 5 2nd half playcalling: 29 runs, 8 passes

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/pbp.asp?gamecode=20071007023&home=23&vis=26

Steelers vs Ravens week 8 16 of the final 19 offensive playcalls were run plays

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/pbp.asp?gamecode=20071105023&home=23&vis=33


Do I need to go on? B/c theres more. Your Browns had to throw until the final buzzer nearly every week. Thats what made them look more impressive than what I believe them to be. Not nearly efficient as the Steelers offense, not close.
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StillersFury


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I pulled down my funny picture...Mods may take offense
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BobBrown


Joined: 19 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spush wrote:
BobBrown wrote:

OK, here is my compromise:

I will answer all of your questions (as usual) if you just explain to me how your play book was "drowned" when you scored 17 2nd half points in Cleveland, 2 2nd half TDs (with over 180 yards of offense in the 2nd half alone) against Buffalo, and 23 2nd half points (including 20 in the 4th quarter) against SF.


As you wish

Steelers vs Browns week 1: The last 19 offensive plays from scrimmage for the Steelers that didnt result in a punt were run plays. You'd figure even as bad as Grantham was, after about a dozen he'd stack the box. Not my fault you couldnt stop it but not exactly stat padding for the Steelers in my book.

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/pbp.asp?gamecode=20070909005&home=5&vis=23



Why would he stack the box after your previous drive of 4 runs and 4 passes?

It was 24 to 7 at the end of the 3rd quarter when this happened:

Pit 1st&10 Pit36 Ben Roethlisberger Pass to Hines Ward to Cle42 for 22 yards
Pit 1st&10 Cle42 Willie Parker Off Left Guard to Cle39 for 3 yards
Pit 2nd&7 Cle39 Willie Parker Off Right Tackle to Cle33 for 6 yards
Pit 3rd&1 Cle33 Najeh Davenport Off Right Guard to Cle26 for 7 yards
Pit 1st&10 Cle26 Ben Roethlisberger Pass Incomplete to Hines Ward
Pit 2nd&10 Cle26 Willie Parker Off Right Guard to Cle24 for 2 yards
Pit 3rd&8 Cle24 Ben Roethlisberger Pass to Najeh Davenport to Cle7 for 17 yards
Pit Pit-Hines Ward PENALIZED -15 yards for Personal Foul
Pit 1st&10 Cle22 Ben Roethlisberger Pass to Heath Miller for 22 yards for a TOUCHDOWN

Not saying that you should not have done it to pad your stats and whatnot, just showing the playbook was still being utilized.

Oh yeah, you did in fact have 19 consecutive running plays, my personal favorite was the most productive of those 19...with under 10 minutes to go in the game and leading 31-7 with a "drowned" playbook, the Steelers managed to convert 3rd and 6 with a reverse over the right end by the WR Cedrick Wilson...WOW...for 37 yards even...yeah spush, just your typical running play from a drowned playbook.

Now ask yourself if you really want ME to go on...

Well do ya?
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spush


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You pick an end around out, out of 19 consecutive run plays?

doesnt that tell you something, there were 30 guys in the box. Thats why you run those plays.

Love that you selectively picked out a drive that started with almost 30 minutes of football remaining. Fact is, they spent 1/4 of that football game running into a 10 man box to eat the clock. Because the Browns couldnt stop them is irrelevant at this point and it obvious the full playbook wasnt at their disposal or they could've put up 50 pts

19 consecutive run plays and you dont think the playbook was limited at that point in the game. Question Rolling Eyes
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BobBrown


Joined: 19 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spush wrote:
You pick an end around out, out of 19 consecutive run plays?

doesnt that tell you something, there were 30 guys in the box. Thats why you run those plays. 30 guys huh? I thought you ran those plays to get a first down...you see if you look in the playbook that you are pretending was "drowned", you will find a play for that situation

Love that you selectively picked out a drive that started with almost 30 minutes of football remaining. 30 again?...I think you are talking about the first TD drive you guys had after halftime, this was the second on that started with under 7 minutes left in the quarter. Fact is, they spent 1/4 of that football game running into a 10 man box to eat the clock. Afraid not, spush...the only 10 man box your team saw that day was the one the rest of our offense carried Charlie Frye out in Because the Browns couldnt stop them is irrelevant at this point and it obvious the full playbook wasnt at their disposal or they could've put up 50 pts The full playbook was utilized until the score was 34-7 with about 7 mins left to go (that is when Batch replaced Ben). Batch went 3 and out, we got the ball back and took the clock down near the 2 minute warning then after DA threw an INT it was just 4 plays to run the clock out, which you did

19 consecutive run plays and you dont think the playbook was limited at that point in the game. Question Rolling Eyes


No it wasn't...what do you think the playbook says for that situation? 4WRs? The playbook says keep the clock moving, keep getting first downs...and that is what you tried to do.

Are you really going to continue to deny it?
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spush


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BobBrown wrote:
spush wrote:
You pick an end around out, out of 19 consecutive run plays?

doesnt that tell you something, there were 30 guys in the box. Thats why you run those plays. 30 guys huh? I thought you ran those plays to get a first down...you see if you look in the playbook that you are pretending was "drowned", you will find a play for that situation

Love that you selectively picked out a drive that started with almost 30 minutes of football remaining. 30 again?...I think you are talking about the first TD drive you guys had after halftime, this was the second on that started with under 7 minutes left in the quarter. Fact is, they spent 1/4 of that football game running into a 10 man box to eat the clock. Afraid not, spush...the only 10 man box your team saw that day was the one the rest of our offense carried Charlie Frye out in Because the Browns couldnt stop them is irrelevant at this point and it obvious the full playbook wasnt at their disposal or they could've put up 50 pts The full playbook was utilized until the score was 34-7 with about 7 mins left to go (that is when Batch replaced Ben). Batch went 3 and out, we got the ball back and took the clock down near the 2 minute warning then after DA threw an INT it was just 4 plays to run the clock out, which you did

19 consecutive run plays and you dont think the playbook was limited at that point in the game. Question Rolling Eyes


No it wasn't...what do you think the playbook says for that situation? 4WRs? The playbook says keep the clock moving, keep getting first downs...and that is what you tried to do.

Are you really going to continue to deny it?


clock management aside, and the way your secondary got torched in that game, you dont think the Steelers could've continued to air it out?

What are you arguing here? That they ran different versions of the same play between the OT's. ? Your not making sense

You cant comprehend the fact that 19 consecutive run plays is a blatant attmept to drain the clock? No passing to so theres no incompletions to keep the clock moving. And you call that full use of a playbook?
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BobBrown


Joined: 19 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spush wrote:
BobBrown wrote:
spush wrote:
You pick an end around out, out of 19 consecutive run plays?

doesnt that tell you something, there were 30 guys in the box. Thats why you run those plays. 30 guys huh? I thought you ran those plays to get a first down...you see if you look in the playbook that you are pretending was "drowned", you will find a play for that situation

Love that you selectively picked out a drive that started with almost 30 minutes of football remaining. 30 again?...I think you are talking about the first TD drive you guys had after halftime, this was the second on that started with under 7 minutes left in the quarter. Fact is, they spent 1/4 of that football game running into a 10 man box to eat the clock. Afraid not, spush...the only 10 man box your team saw that day was the one the rest of our offense carried Charlie Frye out in Because the Browns couldnt stop them is irrelevant at this point and it obvious the full playbook wasnt at their disposal or they could've put up 50 pts The full playbook was utilized until the score was 34-7 with about 7 mins left to go (that is when Batch replaced Ben). Batch went 3 and out, we got the ball back and took the clock down near the 2 minute warning then after DA threw an INT it was just 4 plays to run the clock out, which you did

19 consecutive run plays and you dont think the playbook was limited at that point in the game. Question Rolling Eyes


No it wasn't...what do you think the playbook says for that situation? 4WRs? The playbook says keep the clock moving, keep getting first downs...and that is what you tried to do.

Are you really going to continue to deny it?


clock management aside, and the way your secondary got torched in that game, you dont think the Steelers could've continued to air it out?

What are you arguing here? That they ran different versions of the same play between the OT's. ? Your not making sense

You cant comprehend the fact that 19 consecutive run plays is a blatant attmept to drain the clock? No passing to so theres no incompletions to keep the clock moving. And you call that full use of a playbook?


The game situation determines the plays that are called by the OC, the playbook is a collection of the plays than an OC thinks are appropriate for different game situations (I know you know this, just saying this for the onlookers). The OC (or HC) sees that his team is up and decides to call plays that have a high probablity of success in generating first downs while keepinh the clock moving. The coach knows that the opponents are demorilized and they know that the game is over and the defense is probably thinking about next week, yet Faneca is still pulling to right side on an end around against a nickel defense vs a 3WR set...why? because the goal is to maintain posession and convert a 3rd down.

When you say that "the playbook was drowned" you are insinuating that the offense was no longer trying to score, or even convert 1st downs. You say it like the Steelers were just running a FB dive over and over to run the clock out. Also, you are trying to insinuate that this was some sort of hurdle that the Steelers overcame, as if being conservative with even an 11 or more point lead by ANY team should make offensive stats count for more than they actually do.

I'm pretty sure that is called playing smart football, at least that is what Noll called it.

The biggest problem I have with your assertion is that you are trying to show that the Steelers are so much better than teams that you feel bad they didn't pad their stats, when they actually did. Stat padding is not a bad thing spush, once again, it is called smart football.

This is getting kind of long, so I will hit submit and see if you want me to show you other examples of the Steelers playbook not being limited by anything but a game situation, like in the Seahawks game, where you try to say that the reason the Steelers ran so much in the 2nd half was what?

You were only up by 7 points.
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SteelerPR


Joined: 07 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BobBrown wrote:
spush wrote:
BobBrown wrote:
spush wrote:
You pick an end around out, out of 19 consecutive run plays?

doesnt that tell you something, there were 30 guys in the box. Thats why you run those plays. 30 guys huh? I thought you ran those plays to get a first down...you see if you look in the playbook that you are pretending was "drowned", you will find a play for that situation

Love that you selectively picked out a drive that started with almost 30 minutes of football remaining. 30 again?...I think you are talking about the first TD drive you guys had after halftime, this was the second on that started with under 7 minutes left in the quarter. Fact is, they spent 1/4 of that football game running into a 10 man box to eat the clock. Afraid not, spush...the only 10 man box your team saw that day was the one the rest of our offense carried Charlie Frye out in Because the Browns couldnt stop them is irrelevant at this point and it obvious the full playbook wasnt at their disposal or they could've put up 50 pts The full playbook was utilized until the score was 34-7 with about 7 mins left to go (that is when Batch replaced Ben). Batch went 3 and out, we got the ball back and took the clock down near the 2 minute warning then after DA threw an INT it was just 4 plays to run the clock out, which you did

19 consecutive run plays and you dont think the playbook was limited at that point in the game. Question Rolling Eyes


No it wasn't...what do you think the playbook says for that situation? 4WRs? The playbook says keep the clock moving, keep getting first downs...and that is what you tried to do.

Are you really going to continue to deny it?


clock management aside, and the way your secondary got torched in that game, you dont think the Steelers could've continued to air it out?

What are you arguing here? That they ran different versions of the same play between the OT's. ? Your not making sense

You cant comprehend the fact that 19 consecutive run plays is a blatant attmept to drain the clock? No passing to so theres no incompletions to keep the clock moving. And you call that full use of a playbook?


The game situation determines the plays that are called by the OC, the playbook is a collection of the plays than an OC thinks are appropriate for different game situations (I know you know this, just saying this for the onlookers). The OC (or HC) sees that his team is up and decides to call plays that have a high probablity of success in generating first downs while keepinh the clock moving. The coach knows that the opponents are demorilized and they know that the game is over and the defense is probably thinking about next week, yet Faneca is still pulling to right side on an end around against a nickel defense vs a 3WR set...why? because the goal is to maintain posession and convert a 3rd down.

When you say that "the playbook was drowned" you are insinuating that the offense was no longer trying to score, or even convert 1st downs. You say it like the Steelers were just running a FB dive over and over to run the clock out. Also, you are trying to insinuate that this was some sort of hurdle that the Steelers overcame, as if being conservative with even an 11 or more point lead by ANY team should make offensive stats count for more than they actually do.

I'm pretty sure that is called playing smart football, at least that is what Noll called it.

The biggest problem I have with your assertion is that you are trying to show that the Steelers are so much better than teams that you feel bad they didn't pad their stats, when they actually did. Stat padding is not a bad thing spush, once again, it is called smart football.

This is getting kind of long, so I will hit submit and see if you want me to show you other examples of the Steelers playbook not being limited by anything but a game situation, like in the Seahawks game, where you try to say that the reason the Steelers ran so much in the 2nd half was what?

You were only up by 7 points.


Bob,
You can't be serious about this one. I can see how you may believe (as a homer) some other of your arguments, but this one is ridiculous.
I think you are intelligent enough that I donít need to explain this one.

I think you have had plenty of Steelers fans here that give you the respect when they recognize they are wrong. They state it and apologies. Itís OK to do that. And, may be you have done it in the past (you have plenty of opportunities) but I canít remember if you did (at least not without some sarcasm if at all).
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spush


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I showed you several examples of what I believe to playing extended time with a limited playbook. You like to spin everything into a statistics class, so I hope that sample size is adequate as it covers roughly 1/3 of the season.

You continue to dwell on this end around play. I know you know this, but for the onlookers, thats 1/19th of the plays in question for this game. That particular play call is normally reserved to be run against a team that is stacking the box for the run. Whats the reason to stack the box in this scenario your ask? Because of a big lead and the main priority was no longer scoring pts but clock mgmt and 1st downs.


BobBrown wrote:
When you say that "the playbook was drowned" you are insinuating that the offense was no longer trying to score, or even convert 1st downs. You say it like the Steelers were just running a FB dive over and over to run the clock out. Also, you are trying to insinuate that this was some sort of hurdle that the Steelers overcame, as if being conservative with even an 11 or more point lead by ANY team should make offensive stats count for more than they actually do


1. Yes, you are correct, they were not putting forth a concerted effort to put more pts or yardage on the board

2. If you consider a dive play to be one within the tackles, then yes, 18/19 times.. Probability was pretty high huh?

3. Not claiming it to be a hurdle. Just showing you how the statitistics of the Steelers offense are skewed by circumstance in a debate where you claim your teams offense is superior. I dont believe that to be true. Can you find me a Browns game that ended in 19 straight runs. Embarassed OOPS, this is one. Laughing I meant one where you come out on the other end. I doubt you can, even the buffalo game where weather conditions made if nearly impossible to throw. Even that situation is different b/c it was only an 8 pt deficit and your still trying to score at every turn.
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ironman2008


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is anyone arguing stats with spush?Thats like arguing the theory of relativity with Einstein.
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