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Scheffler retires due to concussions
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FootballPhreak


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:58 pm    Post subject: Scheffler retires due to concussions Reply with quote

http://msn.foxsports.com/detroit/story/tony-scheffler-concussions-force-him-to-retire-from-nfl-061114

Something needs to happen here. To think concussions just weren't recognized as much 10 years ago - it doesn't mean it didn't happen. But clearly way out of control.
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nic_diggler


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anybody hurt on the job is entitled to medical compensation. Even lost wages from the injury are compensated. I do not see why the NFL is different. I hope this concussion lawsuit kicks the greedy NFL's butt. Take care of the players who helped line your pockets with gold, Goodell. The league is designed to generate revenue, ie the draft. Now the players have a chance of not remembering yesterday once they retire. Im typically not on the players side. When I become a roofer, I know the risks, the company knows the risks of me being up there, the insurance company knows the risks. Why is the NFL so far off base with reality?
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bennydagroin714


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure I'll take plenty of heat for this but, to be honest, I'm fed up with the concussion talk. I don't believe for one second that modern football players are just now finding out that concussions have long term effects. Nor do I believe that they would forgo an NFL career given that knowledge. In my opinion, if you feel bad for Tony Scheffler, or any player in a similar situation, you are a sheep. Boxers have been getting their brains destroyed for years. They aren't suing for damages. Take a beating. Entertain the masses. Get paid. Get paid well. Catchers don't sue the MLB because their knees are shot after 15 years behind the plate. There's no new medical study going on in that area. But that is the case. You know the punishment will have lasting effects, but you do it anyway. For your team. For yourself. For your paycheck. If you feel sorry for any player, any player, stop for a second and think about how you would feel in this scenario... The NFL implements mandatory brain scans for all players before each game. "Sorry, Calvin Johnson, your scan shows that you suffered a concussion last week. You're out." As a fan you would be angry. As a player he would be angry. 5 or 10 situations like that throughout the league and you would have a truckload of pissed off fans and players. The players association would start building a "right to work" case. I'll gladly take the criticism on my point of view if you can back it up, but I'll not sit by and listen to your holier than thou, "some things are more important BS." Jim Bouton in "Ball Four" mentions how most players would willingly take years off their lives in order to be an all star. I would trade my $19.75/hr, my $189,000 mortgage, my $350 truck payment, my 30k in student loans, my week to week situation that many people share for some headaches and lost memory down the road. End rant.
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thenoilif


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bennydagroin714 wrote:
I'm sure I'll take plenty of heat for this but, to be honest, I'm fed up with the concussion talk.

I would trade my $19.75/hr, my $189,000 mortgage, my $350 truck payment, my 30k in student loans, my week to week situation that many people share for some headaches and lost memory down the road. End rant.


Due to forum rules you won't get the heat you deserve but yeah thats a pretty messed up line of thinking.

To your second point, how about the mental instability that leads you to killing your wife and children then yourself?
Most players guys going into pro sports come from pretty messed up situations where they and their families have nothing. All of a sudden they are surrounded by thousands of roaring fans and being able to live a lifestyle that they could only have dreamed of so we can cheer on brutality and the owners and league can make a considerable amount more than them but without all of the pain and injuries and a lifetime of mental and physical anguish. Ah yeah, I am pretty happy making a bit less and not having to worry about those issues.
Pro athletes, actors and actresses may seem like they live a magical life but suicide rates and mental instability show otherwise.
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Sllim Pickens


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thenoilif wrote:
bennydagroin714 wrote:
I'm sure I'll take plenty of heat for this but, to be honest, I'm fed up with the concussion talk.

I would trade my $19.75/hr, my $189,000 mortgage, my $350 truck payment, my 30k in student loans, my week to week situation that many people share for some headaches and lost memory down the road. End rant.


Due to forum rules you won't get the heat you deserve but yeah thats a pretty messed up line of thinking.

To your second point, how about the mental instability that leads you to killing your wife and children then yourself?
Most players guys going into pro sports come from pretty messed up situations where they and their families have nothing. All of a sudden they are surrounded by thousands of roaring fans and being able to live a lifestyle that they could only have dreamed of so we can cheer on brutality and the owners and league can make a considerable amount more than them but without all of the pain and injuries and a lifetime of mental and physical anguish. Ah yeah, I am pretty happy making a bit less and not having to worry about those issues.
Pro athletes, actors and actresses may seem like they live a magical life but suicide rates and mental instability show otherwise.


I think that is looking at the extreme cases. Plenty of people without concusions have done messed up stuff to their families. Not every player is suffering from life after football. Honestly I doubt the percentage of players suffering is any different than people working in a factory having ear and lung problems, or a trucker having back problems. Not all famous people are crazy or injured, those are just the ones that make the headlines.

I know that concusions are serious, and the NFL should continue to find ways to minimize the risk. However they will never get rid of the risk and people will continue to play.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually its only been the last ten years that concussions started to raise eyebrows and only in the past five have they been recognized as serious, life altering injuries.

There's a reason all pro sports have introduced concussion protocols in the past five years while earlier concussions were largely ignored. It's because of awareness created through research which historically was sadly lacking.

I think you're off base with your boxing argument. While there are plenty of boxers with long term damage it has always been associated with the amount of punches impacting a boxer, over time, thus the term punch drunk. It's not a result of concussions. Officials have long conducted physical assessment of a boxers awareness and injury status mid bout and between rounds following significant head blows. The boxers ability to continue based on that assessment is routinely determined.

The impact from a gloved hand is significantly different than the impact of a head striking the ground or striking pads designed to protect those wearing them not those being struck.

The evolution of padding in hockey is instrumental to the increase in head injury. When I played shoulder pads were made of felt with a cardboard covering. Elbow pads were made of padded cloth. Today all equipment is made from high impact plastics which are equivalent to being struck with steel. There's no give or absorption properties in the equipment.

The injuries to Marc Savards,Chris Pronger and Sydney Crosby brought tremendous attention to head injuries. The recent donations of brain matter from deceased athletes have fast tracked brain injury research leading to increased knowledge about long term implications of repetitive brain trauma.

So, while everyone knew concussions weren't a good thing it's only been in recent history that the long term effects have been understood.

Like many other occupations awareness of the danger and long term health impacts becomes the motivation for change. Football will never be risk free however that's never been the issue. The issue is when was the NFL aware of concussion dangers and did they do everything to mitigate those dangers.

I certainly don't agree with your statement about trading health for money. Most people who have experienced any dibilitating illness or injury given the choice of money or health would choose health because without your health nothing else matters much.
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FootballPhreak


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the comment that everyone has work risks and know the risks is a bit misplaced. As a factory worker I certainly knew that the welding smoke caused respiratory issues, the coolant other issues, ect. But in the NFL athletes could only react to what they knew. Myself, personally, felt back in my prime in the early 90s that while concussions were bad, they left no significant long term impact. Awareness and information just wasn't available to prove otherwise. I had a dream of being a long term professional athlete.

Now, I got off track and that dream never materialized, but the point is that with the new information out there, I probably would have never had that dream. My mental health has always been paramount to me, while my physical health has always taken a back seat. It has led me to make several life altering changes.

So yes, I can certainly see these athletes looking back with regret. I know I would in their situation.
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Sllim Pickens


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
I think the comment that everyone has work risks and know the risks is a bit misplaced. As a factory worker I certainly knew that the welding smoke caused respiratory issues, the coolant other issues, ect. But in the NFL athletes could only react to what they knew. Myself, personally, felt back in my prime in the early 90s that while concussions were bad, they left no significant long term impact. Awareness and information just wasn't available to prove otherwise. I had a dream of being a long term professional athlete.

Now, I got off track and that dream never materialized, but the point is that with the new information out there, I probably would have never had that dream. My mental health has always been paramount to me, while my physical health has always taken a back seat. It has led me to make several life altering changes.

So yes, I can certainly see these athletes looking back with regret. I know I would in their situation.


They may have regrets, but those regrest should be, "I shouldnt have lied about blacking out so I could stay in the game", not "I shouldnt have played sports." People have known head injuries are not good, exact details maybe not but there is a reason they put helmets on, there is a reason you have to wear a hard hat on construction sites.

Sure there are extreme cases, and people have had to retire due to those concusions, but Javid Best and Tony Scheffler have known the risks, both have tried to play through concusions, and then when they cant they finally decide I might as well try and get rich off that. I would have nearly the hard feelings towards Javid Best suing the NFL if he wasn't trying to make a comeback up until he decided to sue.

And just to be clear, I am not saying that concussions are meaningless, overblown, or should not be further researched and prevented. I am just saying the cases were people are trying to sue the NFL are getting old, if they werent aware of the long term risks they shouldn't be liable. If they did know and could have done more than sure, but until that info comes out, stop complaining or stop playing the sport.
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FootballPhreak


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sllim Pickens wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
I think the comment that everyone has work risks and know the risks is a bit misplaced. As a factory worker I certainly knew that the welding smoke caused respiratory issues, the coolant other issues, ect. But in the NFL athletes could only react to what they knew. Myself, personally, felt back in my prime in the early 90s that while concussions were bad, they left no significant long term impact. Awareness and information just wasn't available to prove otherwise. I had a dream of being a long term professional athlete.

Now, I got off track and that dream never materialized, but the point is that with the new information out there, I probably would have never had that dream. My mental health has always been paramount to me, while my physical health has always taken a back seat. It has led me to make several life altering changes.

So yes, I can certainly see these athletes looking back with regret. I know I would in their situation.


They may have regrets, but those regrest should be, "I shouldnt have lied about blacking out so I could stay in the game", not "I shouldnt have played sports." People have known head injuries are not good, exact details maybe not but there is a reason they put helmets on, there is a reason you have to wear a hard hat on construction sites.

Sure there are extreme cases, and people have had to retire due to those concusions, but Javid Best and Tony Scheffler have known the risks, both have tried to play through concusions, and then when they cant they finally decide I might as well try and get rich off that. I would have nearly the hard feelings towards Javid Best suing the NFL if he wasn't trying to make a comeback up until he decided to sue.

And just to be clear, I am not saying that concussions are meaningless, overblown, or should not be further researched and prevented. I am just saying the cases were people are trying to sue the NFL are getting old, if they werent aware of the long term risks they shouldn't be liable. If they did know and could have done more than sure, but until that info comes out, stop complaining or stop playing the sport.

And just to clarify - I have been hit to the point of blacking out on multiple occasions. My understanding was that everything was fine once you came to. Had I known there were long term reprocussions, I would have likely disengaged in the activity altogether for the duration of my life after the first time, or never took the chance in the first place.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sllim Pickens wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
I think the comment that everyone has work risks and know the risks is a bit misplaced. As a factory worker I certainly knew that the welding smoke caused respiratory issues, the coolant other issues, ect. But in the NFL athletes could only react to what they knew. Myself, personally, felt back in my prime in the early 90s that while concussions were bad, they left no significant long term impact. Awareness and information just wasn't available to prove otherwise. I had a dream of being a long term professional athlete.

Now, I got off track and that dream never materialized, but the point is that with the new information out there, I probably would have never had that dream. My mental health has always been paramount to me, while my physical health has always taken a back seat. It has led me to make several life altering changes.

So yes, I can certainly see these athletes looking back with regret. I know I would in their situation.


They may have regrets, but those regrest should be, "I shouldnt have lied about blacking out so I could stay in the game", not "I shouldnt have played sports." People have known head injuries are not good, exact details maybe not but there is a reason they put helmets on, there is a reason you have to wear a hard hat on construction sites.

Sure there are extreme cases, and people have had to retire due to those concusions, but Javid Best and Tony Scheffler have known the risks, both have tried to play through concusions, and then when they cant they finally decide I might as well try and get rich off that. I would have nearly the hard feelings towards Javid Best suing the NFL if he wasn't trying to make a comeback up until he decided to sue.

And just to be clear, I am not saying that concussions are meaningless, overblown, or should not be further researched and prevented. I am just saying the cases were people are trying to sue the NFL are getting old, if they werent aware of the long term risks they shouldn't be liable. If they did know and could have done more than sure, but until that info comes out, stop complaining or stop playing the sport.


Slim, there's a huge difference between knowing concuss ions aren't good and all the information that's surfaced from research conducted in the last five years.

The reason the lawsuits are plentiful is the NFL has been less than forthcoming with data about what they knew and when they knew it.

Historically helmets used in football, hockey and on construction sites were never designed to eliminate or even reduce concussions. Their sole purpose is to reduce the chance of skull fractures. Only recently has the NFL started using helmets designed to reduce concussions.

Hard hats are the poorest example of safety equipment ever.
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Sllim Pickens


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
Sllim Pickens wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
I think the comment that everyone has work risks and know the risks is a bit misplaced. As a factory worker I certainly knew that the welding smoke caused respiratory issues, the coolant other issues, ect. But in the NFL athletes could only react to what they knew. Myself, personally, felt back in my prime in the early 90s that while concussions were bad, they left no significant long term impact. Awareness and information just wasn't available to prove otherwise. I had a dream of being a long term professional athlete.

Now, I got off track and that dream never materialized, but the point is that with the new information out there, I probably would have never had that dream. My mental health has always been paramount to me, while my physical health has always taken a back seat. It has led me to make several life altering changes.

So yes, I can certainly see these athletes looking back with regret. I know I would in their situation.


They may have regrets, but those regrest should be, "I shouldnt have lied about blacking out so I could stay in the game", not "I shouldnt have played sports." People have known head injuries are not good, exact details maybe not but there is a reason they put helmets on, there is a reason you have to wear a hard hat on construction sites.

Sure there are extreme cases, and people have had to retire due to those concusions, but Javid Best and Tony Scheffler have known the risks, both have tried to play through concusions, and then when they cant they finally decide I might as well try and get rich off that. I would have nearly the hard feelings towards Javid Best suing the NFL if he wasn't trying to make a comeback up until he decided to sue.

And just to be clear, I am not saying that concussions are meaningless, overblown, or should not be further researched and prevented. I am just saying the cases were people are trying to sue the NFL are getting old, if they werent aware of the long term risks they shouldn't be liable. If they did know and could have done more than sure, but until that info comes out, stop complaining or stop playing the sport.

And just to clarify - I have been hit to the point of blacking out on multiple occasions. My understanding was that everything was fine once you came to. Had I known there were long term reprocussions, I would have likely disengaged in the activity altogether for the duration of my life after the first time, or never took the chance in the first place.


Thats you, not everybody else. And I find that hard to believe that all young people given the choice in their 20s, not their 30s or 40s, would make the same decisions. People know cigarettes and alcohol are bad for you, and continue to use them without suing the companies. And those that died because of it before people knew what it caused did not get extra benefits either.

I get using hindsight that most adults, especially those dealing with health issues would chose to avoid the activity that caused them pain. But I dont know any that in their teens and twenties would have cared of the long term effects. Now that isnt a good thing, and all the elders can do is offer their support and what they would have done differently, but the kids are still making the decisions, with knowledge of the risks. I find it hard to believe that football players back in the day would have walked away at any higher of a rate than kids are today, which just isnt happening much. Parents and kids still know the risks, pop warner through high school participation is still up, colleges all the way down to NAIA level have full football teams, and there is no shortage of players willing to wait around to play in the NFL. Its a mentality, and people who play football dont care and continue to have long term effects. Therefore I dont really want to hear them comlain when the same thing happens to them.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sllim Pickens wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
Sllim Pickens wrote:
FootballPhreak wrote:
I think the comment that everyone has work risks and know the risks is a bit misplaced. As a factory worker I certainly knew that the welding smoke caused respiratory issues, the coolant other issues, ect. But in the NFL athletes could only react to what they knew. Myself, personally, felt back in my prime in the early 90s that while concussions were bad, they left no significant long term impact. Awareness and information just wasn't available to prove otherwise. I had a dream of being a long term professional athlete.

Now, I got off track and that dream never materialized, but the point is that with the new information out there, I probably would have never had that dream. My mental health has always been paramount to me, while my physical health has always taken a back seat. It has led me to make several life altering changes.

So yes, I can certainly see these athletes looking back with regret. I know I would in their situation.


They may have regrets, but those regrest should be, "I shouldnt have lied about blacking out so I could stay in the game", not "I shouldnt have played sports." People have known head injuries are not good, exact details maybe not but there is a reason they put helmets on, there is a reason you have to wear a hard hat on construction sites.

Sure there are extreme cases, and people have had to retire due to those concusions, but Javid Best and Tony Scheffler have known the risks, both have tried to play through concusions, and then when they cant they finally decide I might as well try and get rich off that. I would have nearly the hard feelings towards Javid Best suing the NFL if he wasn't trying to make a comeback up until he decided to sue.

And just to be clear, I am not saying that concussions are meaningless, overblown, or should not be further researched and prevented. I am just saying the cases were people are trying to sue the NFL are getting old, if they werent aware of the long term risks they shouldn't be liable. If they did know and could have done more than sure, but until that info comes out, stop complaining or stop playing the sport.

And just to clarify - I have been hit to the point of blacking out on multiple occasions. My understanding was that everything was fine once you came to. Had I known there were long term reprocussions, I would have likely disengaged in the activity altogether for the duration of my life after the first time, or never took the chance in the first place.


Thats you, not everybody else. And I find that hard to believe that all young people given the choice in their 20s, not their 30s or 40s, would make the same decisions. People know cigarettes and alcohol are bad for you, and continue to use them without suing the companies. And those that died because of it before people knew what it caused did not get extra benefits either.

I get using hindsight that most adults, especially those dealing with health issues would chose to avoid the activity that caused them pain. But I dont know any that in their teens and twenties would have cared of the long term effects. Now that isnt a good thing, and all the elders can do is offer their support and what they would have done differently, but the kids are still making the decisions, with knowledge of the risks. I find it hard to believe that football players back in the day would have walked away at any higher of a rate than kids are today, which just isnt happening much. Parents and kids still know the risks, pop warner through high school participation is still up, colleges all the way down to NAIA level have full football teams, and there is no shortage of players willing to wait around to play in the NFL. Its a mentality, and people who play football dont care and continue to have long term effects. Therefore I dont really want to hear them comlain when the same thing happens to them.


Cigarette companies paid 100's of billions of dollars in both settlements to smokers and healthcare providers.

http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/m/mollenkamp-tobacco.html

The basis for settlement in tobacco related cases as in asbestos, Yasmin and others is the manufacturers deliberately withheld data which showed the health impacts.

The tobacco industry even included carcinogens, poison etc. knowing the long term effects yet made very public claims that smoking had no long term effects.

Going back 45 years, no one had any idea at the time of the effects of smoking. It was only over time, through research the effects were known. However big tobacco had done their own research, withheld the information and went so far as to add addictive chemicals to the product.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sllim Pickens wrote:
Thats you, not everybody else

The whole point is that if it is me, it is not hard to believe others would think the same. And I assure you, it is not hindsight or another circumstance - my intellect was my identity for many number of years and my mental health was paramount to me in my youth.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
Sllim Pickens wrote:
Thats you, not everybody else

The whole point is that if it is me, it is not hard to believe others would think the same. And I assure you, it is not hindsight or another circumstance - my intellect was my identity for many number of years and my mental health was paramount to me in my youth.


Having the best information available as a basis for decision making is important.

The issue in my mind is what the NFL knew, and when they knew it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Sllim. Players knew the risks, they chose to play anyway. They know even more of the risks now with testing in the last 5 to 10 years, yet guys still fight for a chance to play.

I knew there were risk playing sports. I had concussions. I had broken bones. I tore my rotator cuff. I had a teammate who lost a finger. Shocked But we played. And if someone offered me millions of dollars to continue doing it, I definitely would have.

There are risks in plenty of jobs. Every man in my family served our country since they immigrated here. My ancestors were coal minors. My father was a cop. All knew the risks. But they had pride in providing for their families. No one thought to sue the coal companies when they died of black lung. No one sued our government when someone died in war. My mother never thought of suing anyone when my father was killed in the line of duty. Maybe some of them would have had health conerns later in life, if they lived. But they did their jobs because it put food on the table and sent kids to school. The same reason these guys play football. So they can buy their mother a house and set their families up for life. Now that their careers are over, they are trying a new avenue to get rich. By playing the victim.
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