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TheStarStillShines


Joined: 12 Oct 2004
Posts: 8974
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shadow walker wrote:
Newman was no way 25....he on madden was 24. so that means probably 23 or 24.

crayton was drafted a the age of 25


You can't believe everything that's stated on a video game. Madden probably assumes he's 24/25 because he's been in the league for only 3 years now.

Now, one of the criticisms that I had with the Newman pick back in 2003 was his age. I did not like the fact that he was 25 years old. He played extremely well in college in large part because he was physically and mentally more mature than the WRs he was matching up against.

And if you don't believe me, check out his birth date:
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/396171

It's Sept. 4, 1978. That makes him 27 when the season starts. O.k., he was 24 when he was drafted but was 25 by the time he played his first NFL game.
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shadow walker


Joined: 11 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so, do you mean to say he'll be 28 when he'll play or will he be 27 when he plays his first game. Confused
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TheStarStillShines


Joined: 12 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shadow walker wrote:
so, do you mean to say he'll be 28 when he'll play or will he be 27 when he plays his first game. Confused


Try reading my post again a lot more slowly and you just might understand it.
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DraftMattJones


Joined: 01 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nevermind
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Trojans14


Joined: 18 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:47 pm    Post subject: Hey Reply with quote

Carson Palmer for Terence Newman and our 4th round pick in 2003.

Any Takers?

Probably not, I mean we've been set @ QB for years now! Cool
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htfryar


Joined: 14 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trojans, I would be all over that deal like stink on a monkey!
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SMASHMOUTH 31ROY


Joined: 08 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

T14 and SSS what is all the calm down talk for. We are debating about sports. As so so eloquently put it SSS it not that big in deal in life or whatever you said. T14 I know you want everyone to agree with everything you say and I respect that because you are a wolf not a sheep. Sheep follow blindly without opinion. After reconsidering I still feel the say way. I am not talking about now!!! I am not talking about age!!!! Player for player I believe that Newman was a better cornerback than Champ Bailey. Player for player I believe that Newman is a better player than Champ Bailey was going into his third year. I am from DC I watch alot lot of those games. Champ was a solid corner early on under the wing of Darrell Green. He blossomed beautifully but that does not make him better than Newman in the way I am speaking of. As far as your top 5 theory I sort of agree with what you are saying but I feel CB is still on that list. With or without the rule cahnges a premiere CB is a need. Its harder to be a shut down corner so IMO that makes it even more of a need. Look at how many team reached in the 1st round this year for corners after the rules change. IMO its a bigger to have a great corner now because the average guys cant hold on and maul guys anymore. After the fact there are a couple of guys that I would draft instead of Newman. But at the time of the draft I would have made the same decisions. As you guys know the right guy isnt always right in the long run. Again Hindsight is 20/20.
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TheStarStillShines


Joined: 12 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not using hindsight in my argument, though. I thought Suggs was the better prospect at the time for both now and the future. His age was a definite factor.

I also think it's unfair to judge Newman and Bailey by years of experience. When Bailey was in his third NFL season, he was only 24 years old. Newman will be entering his 3rd NFL season as a 27 year old. At 24, he was finishing his final year of collegiate football. That's a noticeable difference as a person is further along in her/his physical and mental development at 27 than at 24.

Both will be 27 years old when the season begins. Now who would you rather have - Bailey or Newman?
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Trojans14


Joined: 18 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SMASHMOUTH 31ROY posted:
Quote:
After reconsidering I still feel the say way. I am not talking about now!!! I am not talking about age!!!! Player for player I believe that Newman was a better cornerback than Champ Bailey. Player for player I believe that Newman is a better player than Champ Bailey was going into his third year. I am from DC I watch alot lot of those games. Champ was a solid corner early on under the wing of Darrell Green. He blossomed beautifully but that does not make him better than Newman in the way I am speaking of.


I respect your opinion on Newman. I dont agree with you, but sometimes beauty is in the eye of the beholder. My problem with Newman(besides my positions theory) is that he was so much older than everyone he played against. Remember not only were the WR's in his conference very weak at the time, but he was at least 2 years older, sometimes a whopping 6 years older than his competition!!!!! Thats gotta raise some questions. Add to that the fact that he had some major shoulder issues coming out of college(something we havent brought up enough) and the fact that we just drafted RoyWill, and you have many knocks against Newman...and should look at another spot.

Remember we could have signed Antoine Winfeld for much less than the Vikes got him for, had we just pulled the trigger early. Thus giving us a chance to focus on the "important" franchise positions with our top 5 pick, instead of CB.

As far as CB importance, just look at one thing: The final 4 teams in the playoffs last year.


3 of the 4 had some awful secondary play, but made up for it with superior Front 7 play.


Pats had a bunch of backups and Rodney Harrison.

Indi, had nothing.

Pitt had Troy Polamalu and a bunch of aging vets that would be considered far below league avg.

Only Philly had solid secondary play.

They all had something else. A great QB(We'll see about Big Ben, but he was great last year.)

Thats why it irks me so much. Its not that I dont like Terence Newman, or that I want to label him a bust. Its the fact that we took him instead of a franchise QB.

I felt at the time that both Carson and Leftwhich were franchise QB's...and if you dont have one you always have to look QB first.

That doesnt mean reach for Joey Harrington or Alex Smith, but Palmer and Leftwhich were 10X's better prospects than those 2.

I just know our franchise would be so far ahead of where we're at right now if we had just made the right move in 2003.

CB's can always be found...franchise QB's come along to a team, once a decade.[/b]
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SMASHMOUTH 31ROY


Joined: 08 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the time you are speaking of there is no way we would have drafted QB. Not to say he was a franchise QB but JJ had already pegged Quincy the QB of the future. Your age arguement is valid. Honestly I was never aware that he was that old. That changes this debate but not my opinion of Newman. I still say at the same stage of their careers not age. But age does play a major factor in the comparison. Just because not to many guys play this game deep into their 30s. NFL experience is what turned Champ Bailey into the player that he is. How can you say age is more important than NFL experience?


I would rather have Bailey of course that is not the point I am making. The age is muddying the waters all I am saying is this. IMO Terence Newman was equal or better than Bailey coming out of college, and he is equal to him or better than him after being in the league 2 years. Thats all. I was thinking that once Newman has been around a few more years he will develop as did Champ but based on this new info to me about his age. By the time he gets it all together he will be in his 30s. That does change my arguement quite a bit. Does anyone have a link to him age? SSS and T14 for now I will tip my hat to the both of you for now if he was 25 on draft day you are right we drafted the wrong guy.
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SMASHMOUTH 31ROY


Joined: 08 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never mind found it. Champ is 3 months older than Newman. That is funny. What did Newman do jailtime or something. What the hell was he doing being a freshman at 21?
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shadow walker


Joined: 11 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

he was redshirted his freshman year. but he also probably took a year off after he graduated from highschool
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droopedupmofo


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And we should've drafted Tom Brady in the 5th round before the Patriots got him years ago. There's so many other things Jerry Jones and the Cowboys' organization "should've" done, but didn't. Trying not to get Palmer might've been a bad idea, but who knows? Dallas could end up drafting an even better QB to lead the franchise.

I'm fine with the Newman pick, and it's not like he's horrible. When he's playing with confidence, he's one of the best CBs in the NFL, and when he's not, well you all saw how he played the first half of the season. He'll be great this season assuming Dallas has an existing pass rush, and he could even earn a Pro Bowl spot.
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Trojans14


Joined: 18 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smashmouth posted:
Quote:
At the time you are speaking of there is no way we would have drafted QB. Not to say he was a franchise QB but JJ had already pegged Quincy the QB of the future.


I see where you coming from on the Quin-thee thing, but JJ should have swallowed his pride and realized QC was simply not the answer.

It was a wasted 2nd round pick, many felt that way the day it was made. JJ just wanted to prove people wrong. If you dont have a franchise QB, you have to get one. Palmer was a sure thing in my book. IT stings thats all.

Newman was 24 on draft day, and 25 by week 1.
Quote:

And we should've drafted Tom Brady in the 5th round before the Patriots got him years ago.


That is a TOTALLY different topic. Brady wasnt the #1 overall pick. You know who those guys are. Brady was a diamond in the rough. Im not asking JJ or Tuna to find a diamond in the rough type QB. I just wanted JJ to show the competence on draft day to know Carter was a career backup at best and 2 franchise signal callers could be had.

Thats all IM ASKING! Cool
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Matts4313


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

am i the only one here who thinks with a little pressure from the front 7, and a little help on from the RCB, newman will be amazing this year? he wqas second in the DROY voting his rookie year, and had an avg year last year... but i really beleive that he will be a starter in hawii this year. infact, i would go so far as to say the following:
allen
flo
newman
williams
riveria
witten
robinson
jones

will be in the probowl, while
glover
bledsoe
henery
johnson
and ware
will have a very very slight chance of being there too.

our team is loaded with talent, and newman will have a beak out year
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