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Its a SHAME...
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SMASHMOUTH 31ROY


Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 1084
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hindsight is 20/20. I still say Newman was the right choice at the time the choice was made. Conditions have changed now but at the time of the decisions Newman was considered top 5 by just about everybody I heard from. He was definitely at a position of need. IMO the only better corner entering the draft than him in recent history has been Charles Woodson. Guys like Champ and Winfield were right around the same level if not a lower level than Newman IMO. In his rookie year in a blitz happy scheme that got pressure on the QB he played at a high level. I see no reason why he can not play to a pro-bowl level on a solid defense. There is no CB in the league that can cover as long as Newman was asked to. IMO Champ is the best corner in the league. And then there is a group of guys right behind him. You have Surtain, Winfield, Clements and those types. I dont see much difference in those guys and Newman. So IMO he was and is worth a top 5 pick. If the front seven does there job he will show everyone why he was a top 5 pick. There is only 1 Deion Sanders outside of him no one can turn it into a 10 on 10 game.Many have tried many have failed.Terrence Newman will be just fine.
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Trojans14


Joined: 18 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hindsight is 20/20. I still say Newman was the right choice at the time the choice was made. Conditions have changed now but at the time of the decisions Newman was considered top 5 by just about everybody I heard from. He was definitely at a position of need. IMO the only better corner entering the draft than him in recent history has been Charles Woodson. Guys like Champ and Winfield were right around the same level if not a lower level than Newman IMO. In his rookie year in a blitz happy scheme that got pressure on the QB he played at a high level. I see no reason why he can not play to a pro-bowl level on a solid defense. There is no CB in the league that can cover as long as Newman was asked to. IMO Champ is the best corner in the league. And then there is a group of guys right behind him. You have Surtain, Winfield, Clements and those types. I dont see much difference in those guys and Newman. So IMO he was and is worth a top 5 pick. If the front seven does there job he will show everyone why he was a top 5 pick. There is only 1 Deion Sanders outside of him no one can turn it into a 10 on 10 game.Many have tried many have failed.Terrence Newman will be just fine.


You can say Newman was the right pick. Thats fine by me, but you cant say he was on the same level as Champ coming out of college. Thats just not justifiable. Newman was on par with Trufant, but his return skills made him go higher in 2003. Champ was cant miss in 1999.

I totally agree with you that Terence can play at a high level, I dont doubt that. My point is even @ a high level of play, its still a blown pick @ #5. That pick is for franchise players. I never feel a CB is a franchise player. Front 7/OL/QB/WR those are spots to look at in the top 10.

Great front 7 play, can make up for just about any poor CB play. Just ask the Pats team from last year.

Newman is talented, but not deserving of the 5th pick people! Palmer/Andre Johnson/Robertson/Suggs/Byron Leftwhich/Kevin Williams and even Jordan Gross would have made this team much much better.

Thats not hindsight either, thats having the common sense to fill more important needs than CB.
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thisnamesucks


Joined: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 4856
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trojans14 wrote:


1.) YOU NEVER DRAFT A CB in the top 10 unless he is cant miss. There have been about 4 of those guys in the last 20 years. Newman certainley wasnt one.

2.) He was the olderst player to go in the first. He was almost 3 years older than Suggs. That should put up huge red-flags as is.

3.) Their was great talent, (I wont say superior to Newman, although I felt that way) at other positions of "need" that are more important than CB.


As far as Aikman is concerned, if you have ever read anything from Jimmy Johnson you would know that Aikman could have had Marino like numbers if he let the reigns down. But Jimmy wanted a controlled offense run-oriented, and let Aikman make the plays when he needed to. It certainley wasnt West-Coast, or Fun and Gun, or Dolphin Pass Happy.

Just look at what Marino did once Jimmy took over. Its all relative, and thats why Im much more concerned with winning and not stats as far as QB's are concerned. Much of their stats are based on the scheme's they use, the truly great QB's lead their teams to Super Bowls and make the Big Play when it counts.

Thats why Aikman and Brady for that matter are top 5 QB's. Id take either one over Peyton or Marino anyday of the week and twice on Sunday!


yes, obviously i know why his numbers weren't as high as they could have been. anyone who knows anything knows they were a run first offense.......hell, anyone who sees that Emmitt ran for over 20 TD's more tha once knows they were a run first offense.....even if they've never watched football a day in their life. you can play the "coulda shoulda" game with practically any player in the NFL, my point is that his numbers aren't HOF worthy without the SB wins, that's all i was saying. but you can have a QB that has both stats and wins i.e. Elway (best of all time IMO).


and Newman wasn't the biggest need, IMO i thought Ross was good (for his type of game) and Edwards was fine, but there's no such thing as a "sure thing" in the NFL, if there was, every team would be stacked with all-stars. and Newman was probably the closest thing to it in that draft....lets be honest, having gotten Quincy 2 years previous QB in the first was out of the question, and with Nguyen, Coakley, and the signing of Singleton, Suggs was probably out of the question (at LB) not sure who our line consisted of other than Ellis and Glover. IMO a speed rusher would have been nice, but i'd want someone bigger than Suggs' 260. either way it worked out, because we got our Suggs (Ware) we got our Dwayne Robertson (Ferguson) we got our Richard Seymour (Spears) and we still got Newman. and with the rush we'll get out of the front 7 this year i think ol' Newmie will shine
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Soup Nazi


Joined: 30 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:46 am    Post subject: Re: Its a SHAME... Reply with quote

GeorgiaBoy367 wrote:
Trojans14 wrote:
after reading that great article on Carson Palmer today

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp05/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2122436

that we had to draft that meathead Quin-thee Carter 2 years before.

The Bengals were begging people to take that #1 pick off their hands. They flirted with taking Terence Newman #1...but then decided to go with the "Safe" pick and take the Heisman winner instead.

We could have easily gotten up to #1 for our first and 4th round pick(with maybe a future pick thrown in.) Thats how much the Bengals wanted out.

Now they have what many are calling "The Future Troy Aikman" and we have more questions @ QB than just about any other team in the league and a CB who hasnt lived up to the billing of "best athlete in the 2003 draft."

For our sake lets hope Newman makes the Pro Bowl this year, so it softens the blow of watching Palmer tear up the NFL.


LOL and I hate newman. Henry and Glenn are predicted above him LOL what a joke. This was not the guy we were tricked into drafting at his spot the next Deion my A**. To think we could have gotten Palmer just makes me more angry. I guess thats life
i hate you georgiaboy, dont hate on newman bc he had a down year. your just like this dude i work with that hates JJ for no reason. you cant hate a player on your team bc hes not friggin awsome he will be a very good corner next season. you are an embarassment to football fans. hes never been a problem hes has great character. you just need to quit dwellin on what couldve been, im happy with newman and im glad we picked him. so just shut your mouth on stuff you dont know.
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SMASHMOUTH 31ROY


Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 1084
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO Champ Bailey was no where near the talent level he is now coming out of school. When I say this I speak of the cornerback position. If you remember as Im sure you do Champ was doing everything except leading the band in the fight song at Georgia. IMO he was no where near a shut down corner at UGA. While on the other hand I feel Newman's coverage skills where better coming out of school. IMO the only player with better skills coming out of school in recent history was C. Woodson. Champ was a gamebreaker because Georgia got the ball in his hands on offense and special teams. To my recollection Champ was an above average corner at that time. He has blossomed into what he is now 6 Years later. IMO at the same points in their careers Newman is ahead of Champ. Not taking anything away from Champ but that is how good I think Newman is. As far as CB not being a top 5 position all I can say is I disagree. You are entitled to your opinion. But with the rules changes and the league tipping towards being a passing league I dont see your angle.
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shadow walker


Joined: 11 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

newman will bounce back from his "sophmore slump".

with our passrush he will have atleast five int.

im glad we have newman and thankful he doesnt have an attitude.

i cant wait to see the look on the "newman nay sayers" when T-New has a better season
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Dcowboy31


Joined: 15 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the 2003 draft i thought palmer sucked and was going to suck in the nfl...i guess i was proven wrong....i thought newman was going to be awsome...i still dont think i am wrong on that, but like one poster said early when you look back on something you are looking at it 20/20
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shadow walker


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what poster said that? he must've been smart. anyways, im standing by newman 100% unless he makes me not support him. he's our player on our team and you're supposed to "cheer him" not "Jeer him".
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Trojans14


Joined: 18 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smashmouth posted:
Quote:
IMO Champ Bailey was no where near the talent level he is now coming out of school. When I say this I speak of the cornerback position. If you remember as Im sure you do Champ was doing everything except leading the band in the fight song at Georgia. IMO he was no where near a shut down corner at UGA. While on the other hand I feel Newman's coverage skills where better coming out of school. IMO the only player with better skills coming out of school in recent history was C. Woodson. Champ was a gamebreaker because Georgia got the ball in his hands on offense and special teams. To my recollection Champ was an above average corner at that time. He has blossomed into what he is now 6 Years later. IMO at the same points in their careers Newman is ahead of Champ. Not taking anything away from Champ but that is how good I think Newman is. As far as CB not being a top 5 position all I can say is I disagree. You are entitled to your opinion. But with the rules changes and the league tipping towards being a passing league I dont see your angle.



Champ, had all the physical tools to be the leagues premeir CB coming out of college. He also played in a much tougher SEC than Newman did in the Big 12. (If your a Big 12 lover, just take a look @ the WR's that each league produced.)

I know many of you Texas, Okla...boys will disagree but I cant think of a more overrated league than the Big 12.

Also remember that Newman was 23 when he got drafted. Not exactly a spring chicken.

With the rules changes being made to help open up offense's...the need for a shut-down CB has changed. You just need speed guys who can keep up with WR's for 3-4 seconds.

There is no reason to ever WASTE a top 10 pick on a CB. Teams will all learn this soon.

Fact is, had we gotten Newman in the mid-late first I would have loved the pick. Hes talented and can become a #1 CB(hopefully this year) but I dont feel that CB are franchise players, and shouldnt be picked to be one either.

We should have spent that Top 5 pick on a franchise player. I realize hindsight is 20/20...but just following my no RB/TE/CB/S method still would have landed us a franchise talent.

We could have landed our franchise QB or our franchise WR. We could have landed our franchise DE/OLB in Suggs(then gone after a franchise WR in this draft) the options are limitless.

My main point here is not to knock Newman...its to show that other positions are much more valuable to the overall team concept.

Had we made a "better choice" there our team would be stronger today for it...thats all.
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TheStarStillShines


Joined: 12 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Newman was actually 25 when he was drafted.

I also wasn't a fan of the selection. I thought the team should have targeted Terrell Suggs since the pass rush was a huge need and everything starts at the line of scrimmage. His age was also a huge negative since he would essentially only have about 5 to 6 good years in him whereas a player like Suggs had 10 years (Suggs was 21 years old when he played his first NFL game).

While I thought Newman would make a good pro, I did not think he would be an All-Pro-calibre player. He did surprise me with his excellent rookie year. He struggled last year, and I'm not completely surprised as he bites on double moves too easily. While I wasn't a fan of Newman's, I did think he would be more of a playmaker than he has been.
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Trojans14


Joined: 18 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

25!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

'Nuff said. No more reason for discussion on this topic.

I'm a Newman fan, but it was absolutley 100% the wrong pick @ #5.
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SMASHMOUTH 31ROY


Joined: 08 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abslutely 100% suggest that it is a fact which it is not it is your opinion. You can not close a discussion because you are 100% sure. WHO ARE YOU. I state again I disagree with your opinion and your whole position not fit for top 5 theory. BPA at any position other than kicker. You say we should have went after Suggs who struggles in 4-3 defenses. Or a QB or WR. Carson Palmer is who you are speaking of Im sure HOMER. If you remember we had our starting QB wheter you agree with who it was or not. We had the guy the front office thought would be there. And what WR would you have picked ahead of Newman. Your whole arguement is based on now. Not when the event actually took place.


I didnt say anything about the big 12 or the sec. I said Newman was a better cornerback than champ when they left college. Champ haad more playmaking skills but IMO Newman was the better corner. I didnt say who played in the best conference or who had yhe most potential. We all know potential doesnt always make its way to the foeld. Its easy to say all that about Champ now but we are not talking about now we are talking then.
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TheStarStillShines


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't say Suggs struggles in the 4-3 defense. He did win DROY in that scheme and the Ravens are returning to the 4-3

He's also one of a handful of players in history to have recorded double digit sack totals in each of his first two seasons.

And I think you need to settle down Smash. It's only a message board and we're only talking about Newman. It's not like he's a huge difference maker in the big scheme called life.

BTW, Champ was a better prospect coming out than Newman was. Because Champ went #7 and Newman went #5 is not an indication of how good each other were. Rather, Champ went at #7 more because of the quality of the 1999 Draft than anything else. Newman went a bit earlier because the 2003 Draft wasn't as deep.

Also, it's hard to argue that Newman was the better prospect coming out of college since he was 25 when he came out and Bailey was 21. Oh yeah, I think most would agree that Bailey is the better player today, and they're both the same age (27). So how can Newman be the better prospect yet be behind Bailey development wise when they're both 27 years of age?
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shadow walker


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Newman was no way 25....he on madden was 24. so that means probably 23 or 24.

crayton was drafted a the age of 25
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Trojans14


Joined: 18 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SMASHMOUTH 31ROY posted:
Quote:
Abslutely 100% suggest that it is a fact which it is not it is your opinion. You can not close a discussion because you are 100% sure. WHO ARE YOU. I state again I disagree with your opinion and your whole position not fit for top 5 theory.


Calm down there pal. These gurantees and 100% comments I make arent to be taken so seriously. I definitley dont think Im above any of you guys on this board.

I just feel when I make my mind up on something, everyone else should agree with me. EVERYONE ELSE!!!! Cool

In all honesty I see where your coming from, but I do think you need to take a step back and re-analyze your stance. I'll do the same.

Look at the facts, not my opinions here:

1.) Newman was the oldest rookie taken in the first round(probaly whole draft but Im not 100% positive.)

2.) Rule changes made so "Shut-Down" corners dont exist in today's NFL. Meaning there is no need to select one in the top 10. If hes not going to be a franchise player than look at a different position.

3.) There were franchise players at several other positions that Dallas had "Needs" at. QB/WR/DE/DT/OLB. Again all more important positions(in most people's minds compared to today's CB.)

4.) We had just selected another secondary player in the top 10, in the previous season. You have to spread the wealth, not focus on one spot. That alone should have crossed off CB or S for us. Im pretty sure that Dallas is the first team 2 spend 2 top 8 picks in consecutive years on the secondary. That speaks volumes(not as bad as Detroit spending 3 firsts in a row on WR's, but close.)

You dont have to agree with my positions theory, but consider this, what group of players would you rather take when starting your franchise:

A.) Peyton Manning
Orlando Pace
Julius Peppers
Randy Moss
Ray Lewis

OR

B.) Ladainian Tomlinson
Champ Bailey
Tony Gonzalez
Ed Reed

*Feel free to take one player away from group A, if you'd like. Its fairly obvious that the positions from group A contain much more vital players to there team than that of group B.


And thats a fact Jack! Cool
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