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Film Cut Ups: Lions @ Vikings
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frosted21


Joined: 01 Oct 2014
Posts: 17
Location: Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:03 pm    Post subject: Film Cut Ups: Lions @ Vikings Reply with quote

1st and 10 at DET 15 (7:42) T.Bridgewater pass deep middle intended for C.Patterson INTERCEPTED by G.Quin at DET -2. G.Quin to DET 18 for 20 yards (J.McKinnon).













The first play I wanted to take a look at was the redzone interception Ted threw. The Vikes came out with a singleback set, but motioned Rhett into the backfield, effectively this was an offset I formation with twin receivers split out to the right (Cordarelle and Jennings). The Lions come out in a 4-3, their base defense, and only send the four down lineman. Norv kept Rhett and McKinnon in to block, so in essence, the Vikings have seven blockers for four pass rushers, so it's not wonder the pocket is clean. That hurt us though, as we only have three receivers running a route. The Lions have their backers in zone underneath, and it appears to be switching zones with man concepts for the defensive backfield.

Chase Ford runs an out route on the left of the formation, and is not open, as he is picked up by the Lions cornerback. Jennings and Patterson both run a post pattern at essentially the same depth. Perhaps the play design was supposed to drag the safety away from Flash with Jennings, but Glover Quin doesn't bite and easily undercuts the pattern, and picks this one off. Seemed like a bad play design to me, maybe Patterson screwed his route up, I don't know. One positive to draw from this, Loadholt easily handled his assignment here, without any help.

Ted may have been better served tucking this and getting what yards he could running after he saw the congestion around Greg and Flash. He stared Cordarelle down the whole time, and that allowed Quin to read and react to the throw.
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frosted21


Joined: 01 Oct 2014
Posts: 17
Location: Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3rd and 9 at MIN 21 (3:22) (Shotgun) T.Bridgewater sacked at MIN 20 for -1 yards (N.Suh).













I wanted to look at this play, because it was the drive after Ted threw the red zone interception, and I get the feeling based on how this one went down, that he may have been a bit hesitant to pull the trigger because of it.

The Lions again rush only four, and the Vikings offensive line (plus McKinnon) form a nice pocket for Ted, giving him more than enough time to get the ball out to Jennings on the post pattern going from left to right. It looks like he had a window to get him the ball, but he hesitates, Suh sheds Vlad's block, and Ted takes the sack. Of note, no one else got open.
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VikeManDan


Joined: 22 Dec 2010
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Location: Minnesota
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the first play it looks as if McKinnon was just about to come into Teddy's sight heading towards the flat matched up with a linebacker. I'd take that checkdown in this situation. Surprised Teddy didn't tuck and run like you said. A lot of open green in front of him. Rookie mistake we hopefully won't see too many more times.
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Vigilante STL wrote:
Take me up on an avatar bet: Cordarelle Patterson gets no more than 775 receiving yards in 2014
Patterson Stat Tracker:
17 rec. 204 yards 0 TDs
571 yards to go
10 games left
Must average 57.1 to reach 775
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frosted21


Joined: 01 Oct 2014
Posts: 17
Location: Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VikeManDan wrote:
On the first play it looks as if McKinnon was just about to come into Teddy's sight heading towards the flat matched up with a linebacker. I'd take that checkdown in this situation. Surprised Teddy didn't tuck and run like you said. A lot of open green in front of him. Rookie mistake we hopefully won't see too many more times.


Nice catch, I didn't even notice McKinnon sneaking out there. Would have been another better decision.
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VikeManDan


Joined: 22 Dec 2010
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Location: Minnesota
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

frosted21 wrote:
VikeManDan wrote:
On the first play it looks as if McKinnon was just about to come into Teddy's sight heading towards the flat matched up with a linebacker. I'd take that checkdown in this situation. Surprised Teddy didn't tuck and run like you said. A lot of open green in front of him. Rookie mistake we hopefully won't see too many more times.


Nice catch, I didn't even notice McKinnon sneaking out there. Would have been another better decision.


The LB looked like he was breaking towards him (until he sees Teddy release, a pump fake could have been deadly here) but it would have been at least a few yards gained.
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Vigilante STL wrote:
Take me up on an avatar bet: Cordarelle Patterson gets no more than 775 receiving yards in 2014
Patterson Stat Tracker:
17 rec. 204 yards 0 TDs
571 yards to go
10 games left
Must average 57.1 to reach 775
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SteelKing728


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
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Location: Gibsonia, Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In both of these plays, Vlad DuCasse is blocking nobody (he attempts to block Suh, but ends up getting handled)

That first play when I originally saw it on gameday I knew something was wrong. I see now the staredown, and the open space Teddy could have ran for.

The 2nd play seemed like we didn't have much of a chance, allthough maybe something comes out of it if Teddy is quicker in his decision/throw.
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frosted21


Joined: 01 Oct 2014
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Location: Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1st and 10 at DET 32 (14:35) T.Riddick left end to DET 33 for 1 yard (L.Joseph).













Barr and Hodges both kick some [inappropriate/removed] on this play.

As you can see, the Vikings come out in their nickel defense (Harrison actually moves down into the box as well, you can just see him to Barr's left in the first cut up), and the Lions are in an Ace formation, with '11' personnel on the field (3 WR, TE, HB).

The play is a simple zone stretch, and Riddick is simply tasked with finding his lane, making one cut and getting up field. This failed for a variety of reasons, but in essence, everyone played within the scheme, and wouldn't you know it, the scheme worked. Griffen and Linval both hold their own at the point of attack, forcing Riddick outside. Hodges takes on the Lions left guard, and does an awesome job, not only setting the edge and forcing Riddick to cut back inside toward the pursuit, but also getting off the block, and helping to clean up on the tackle. Meanwhile, Barr is engaged with the other guard, quickly scrapes off of him, and makes the play, going downhill into Riddick's only option to cut back into, stopping him for a 1 yard loss. Joseph is credited with the tackle for hopping on the pile at the end haha. You can't see that in these cut ups.
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swiss_vike


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The RZ interception. When he threw it, 3 defenders were moving in the direction of Patterson...all away from Jennings (see picture 4). The result of these movements is a wide open Jennings. That was just bad anticipation by Teddy here. He does not make many of those mistakes.

Of many choices here (good ones: throw to Jennings, McKinnon or running it; mediocre ones: throw it away, throw it to Ford), he chose the worst option by throwing it to Patterson (over a defender, between two closing defenders in a tight window. hard throw for any QB)

I think the routes were run as called though.
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Last edited by swiss_vike on Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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swiss_vike


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last cut up shows well what's wrong with Floyd. He's tasked with a double team, but he takes himself out of the play. By the 3rd picture, he has his shoulders and hips turned and basically is a passive mountain from that moment on. If he would have kept his position, he would at least been able to fully engage 1 blocker.

Barr does an incredible play by just dismissing the oncoming blocker (engage and release) and heading for the RB. Barr is gonna be something, I tell you.

Floyd, on the other hand...
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Dolmonite26


Joined: 05 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swiss_vike wrote:
The last cut up shows well what's wrong with Floyd. He's tasked with a double team, but he takes himself out of the play. By the 3rd picture, he has his shoulders and hips turned and basically is a passive mountain from that moment on. If he would have kept his position, he would at least been able to fully engage 1 blocker.

Barr does an incredible play by just dismissing the oncoming blocker (engage and release) and heading for the RB. Barr is gonna be something, I tell you.

Floyd, on the other hand...


notice this too. His shoulders got completely turned and he just got handled, if Barr does make an outstanding play, that run goes for a much bigger gain.

I hope that Floyd's struggles are because he still dealing with an injury or something cause he is starting to really disappoint.

Hope he can get back to pre-season form.
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frosted21


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re: Floyd - I meant to mention that - I just don't know what the heck he is doing a lot of times. It's like that again and again on film ... very concerning.
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Krauser


Joined: 20 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:14 am    Post subject: Re: Film Cut Ups: Lions @ Vikings Reply with quote

frosted21 wrote:







Jennings only looks like he's coming open in the bottom image because the safety is already coming across the field to play the ball. His route actually takes him right to the safety (look at where the safety is standing in the top image here and compare that to where Jennings is as Bridgewater releases the ball).

Jennings would be open if Bridgewater had moved the safety towards Patterson without throwing it, maybe pumped in that direction, held the ball another half second and then threw to Jennings as he broke toward the sideline, along the goal line.

If Bridgewater tries to throw to Jennings early in the route, there's no way.

The other good option would've been to throw earlier to Patterson (winding up in the first image here, pulling the trigger in the second one), the safety probably wouldn't have gotten over there in time.

And of course he could've run with it, or thrown the checkdown to McKinnon, it was only first down.


Last edited by Krauser on Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Krauser


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

frosted21 wrote:







That's not much of a window to Jennings on the post/seam route. The safety on the other hash is barely 10 yards away from #15 when Bridgewater hits the top of his drop, and he's sitting on that route (no one else to cover, body leaning forward, looking in that direction). Throwing that would've been high risk.

Unfortunately, no one else is even slightly open, and as he climbs the pocket (on time), Suh swamps him. Not a bad play to take the sack there on 3rd and long early in a close game.
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swiss_vike


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:45 am    Post subject: Re: Film Cut Ups: Lions @ Vikings Reply with quote

Krauser wrote:
frosted21 wrote:







Jennings only looks like he's coming open in the bottom image because the safety is already coming across the field to play the ball. His route actually takes him right to the safety (look at where the safety is standing in the top image here and compare that to where Jennings is as Bridgewater releases the ball).

Jennings would be open if Bridgewater had moved the safety towards Patterson without throwing it, maybe pumped in that direction, held the ball another half second and then threw to Jennings as he broke toward the sideline, along the goal line.

If Bridgewater tries to throw to Jennings early in the route, there's no way.

The other good option would've been to throw earlier to Patterson (winding up in the first image here, pulling the trigger in the second one), the safety probably wouldn't have gotten over there in time.

And of course he could've run with it, or thrown the checkdown to McKinnon, it was only first down.


Hips. The safety's hips are always turned to Bridgwaters right side. From 1 to 2, he back-pedals 2-3 yards into the endzone, keeping his hips turned the same way. Jennings route is to the left of Bridgewater. When he releases it, it's quite clear that the safety will be able to get to the ball.

If he would have thrown the exact same moment to Jennings, there's not way the safety, could a) turn his hip and b) come upfield to make a tackle, and no chance at all to intercept it. It was just a poor decision.
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Krauser


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ball's already gone in the last image, the safety's moving toward it.

The one before, as Bridgewater starts to wind up, the safety is reading Bridgewater looking at Patterson but he's still right on top of Jennings route (who's at the 5, the safety is at the base of the 'E' in the MINNESOTA mark in the end zone, barely two yards from where Jennings will be in the next image).

If Bridgewater throws to Jennings in that rhythm, it's an easy play to defend. He either has to wait until Jennings comes across that window (another beat or two, which he had time for on this play alone all day), and/or move the safety by pumping toward Patterson.

At the point where he decides to pull the trigger, neither route is open. If he wants Patterson he would've had to be throwing it already, with more anticipation.

So yes it's a bad decision, but Jennings only looks open because he's alreeady throwing in a different direction.
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