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seantaylorfan21


Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 1945
Location: texas
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:37 pm    Post subject: pac-man jones Reply with quote

titans want to trade him and he'll probaly be like randy moss an easy trade if we could give up a 5th and 6th or just a 5th i would say we should get him i think we could change his attitude around and he could be the shutdown corner we've been looking for ever since bailey. i mean we do play in a division where we have to play t.o. and plaxico buress twice in one year.


so if we can get him for a 5th or any other trades of your guys ideas should we get him.
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red_skins5


Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 435
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a 5th yea Carlos Rogers and Pac Man will be one of the best if not the best young CB combo. And he a good punt returner and we need that cause Randel El is not getting the job done returning punts.
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mike23md


Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 10004
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is simply like a game of Russian Roulette. You don't know what your going to get. I am not sure that I would risk the pick on a guy that may just blow up again and be out for another year.

Now his skills go far beyond his attitude. Just like Brandon Lloyd. But we all know how attitudes are appreciated around here.

As far as his corner abilities go he can play with the best of them. Getting him based on talent alone for a 4th or 5th rounder (I know that we do not have a 4th rounder but I was speaking in generalities) would be a steal, again based on talent.

The problem lies with the attitude. If he starts to transcend into the Titan attitude and get into trouble then where does that leave us. He would be suspended again and we would be without another pick and another depth chart player. Sometimes it is better to just let someone else deal with the headache.

If he changes then oh well. But I am not sure that I take that risk considering how much help we need in other areas. But his talent is hard to overlook.
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seantaylorfan21


Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 1945
Location: texas
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we could possibly trade shawn springs for him but i'm not sure if i'd want to do that but yeah i definitley think if we can get him for a 5th round and 6th or just 5th then we should do it. i think with the vets on our team and our history that we can change his attitude around for sure. and with pac-man acting good we would have a sick young secondary cause pac-man is still very young.
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red_skins5


Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 435
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike23md wrote:
This is simply like a game of Russian Roulette. You don't know what your going to get. I am not sure that I would risk the pick on a guy that may just blow up again and be out for another year.

Now his skills go far beyond his attitude. Just like Brandon Lloyd. But we all know how attitudes are appreciated around here.

As far as his corner abilities go he can play with the best of them. Getting him based on talent alone for a 4th or 5th rounder (I know that we do not have a 4th rounder but I was speaking in generalities) would be a steal, again based on talent.

The problem lies with the attitude. If he starts to transcend into the Titan attitude and get into trouble then where does that leave us. He would be suspended again and we would be without another pick and another depth chart player. Sometimes it is better to just let someone else deal with the headache.

If he changes then oh well. But I am not sure that I take that risk considering how much help we need in other areas. But his talent is hard to overlook.


The risk of trading for Pac Man is about the same as drafting a 5th rounder and homing he pans out. The reward is higher if we trade for Pac and in most cases the best a 5th rounder can be is a solid starter but Pac can be one of the best CB`s in the game in a couple of years if he stays on his best behavior.
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seantaylorfan21


Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 1945
Location: texas
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

after hearing what you guys are saying i'm really serious when i say this


dan snyder bring pac-man to wearing burgandy and gold!!!!!!!!
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mike23md


Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 10004
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seantaylorfan21 wrote:
we could possibly trade shawn springs for him but i'm not sure if i'd want to do that but yeah i definitley think if we can get him for a 5th round and 6th or just 5th then we should do it. i think with the vets on our team and our history that we can change his attitude around for sure. and with pac-man acting good we would have a sick young secondary cause pac-man is still very young.


I completely understand your point. His talent is arguably one of the best in the league. But again, we all know how much attitude is appreciated around here. Arrington? Lloyd? Arrington was run out of here to the point that he had to buy out of his contract and I really think that Lloyd is being pressured into the same predicament.

I think that if we traded a 6th rounder ONLY, then I would consider it. If he were to get a contract it would be for incentive based bonuses with a minimal salary. He would have to demonstrate that he is not the "thug" anymore and that he is ready to play some football.

I really think that is too much of a chance but I know that others will agree to disagree with me. So is it really worth it. Talent wise there is no question but I would really hate to get burned, again, with great talent and horrible attitudes.

Springs will stay. It seems as though he is getting better with age. He had a productive year and was healthy all year. The only reason that Springs goes is due to a contract dispute in which he refuses to renegotiate. But I don't think that we trade away our best corner.
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red_skins5


Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 435
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is really not big of a risk only thing we will be giving up is a 5th rounder. And most 5th rounders that are suppose to be a good pick are either injuried or have character issues(spell check). So think as if we drafted a 5th rounder with character issues but would have been a 1st rounder if he had no charater issues.
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skinsfan212689


Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 296
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

red_skins5 wrote:
It is really not big of a risk only thing we will be giving up is a 5th rounder. And most 5th rounders that are suppose to be a good pick are either injuried or have character issues(spell check). So think as if we drafted a 5th rounder with character issues but would have been a 1st rounder if he had no charater issues.


I hope we make a move for pacman. I actuall think he has learned his lesson and the redskins organization handled taylor off the field issues and he got his act together. I am sure adam wont get into to any more trouble becuase this is a guy that loves to play some football. Having that taking away for this year was really important in his growing up.

So if all Tenn wants is a fifth then i say jump on that asap FO.
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S. Taylor


Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 11242
Location: By the Lake
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If he is, in fact, on the trade block, I'd love it.

I feel there are teams with more to offer for PacMan, though. The best the Skins would probably give up is a 5th round pick... while some team may be willing to give up a 4th for him.
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SKINEM21


Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 594
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean what do you have to lose? I wold trade my 5th and Springs for him in a heartbeat. As much as I love Springs hes getting older. Also, like someone else said, trading for Pac Man isnt any more risky than hoping your 5th round pick turns out. If I were Dan Snyder, this is what I would do. I would tell Pac Man that we would love to have him as a member of the Burgandy Gold. Then I would go on to say that, if you get in any sort of trouble with the law, you will be released. I personally think Pac has learned his lesson anyway. I havent heard his name in the news in a while.
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midniterc


Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 6653
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike23md wrote:
Now his skills go far beyond his attitude. Just like Brandon Lloyd. But we all know how attitudes are appreciated around here.


There can be absolutely no comparison between Lloyd and Jones. 100% of Jones' problems have come off the field. 0% of Lloyd's problems have been off the field. All of Lloyd's problems have either been on the field, at meetings or at practice. In short, Lloyd has been a problem while on the Redskins time clock. That is totally unacceptable. With Jones, his problems off the field can be handled with proper counseling.

To the best of my knowledge, there has never been any reports of Jones having an attitude problem. But I wouldn't trade for him unless he agrees to weekly counseling. If the Titans were smart, they'd put him on the open market and take the best offer for him. They would probably get a second rouner for him.
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midniterc


Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 6653
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SKINEM21 wrote:
I mean what do you have to lose? I wold trade my 5th and Springs for him in a heartbeat. As much as I love Springs hes getting older. Also, like someone else said, trading for Pac Man isnt any more risky than hoping your 5th round pick turns out. If I were Dan Snyder, this is what I would do. I would tell Pac Man that we would love to have him as a member of the Burgandy Gold. Then I would go on to say that, if you get in any sort of trouble with the law, you will be released. I personally think Pac has learned his lesson anyway. I havent heard his name in the news in a while.


Behavior can also be part of an incentive deal. Base salary, a small signing bonus, and a huge bonus if he doesn't get into any trouble.
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mike23md


Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 10004
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing that would make me feel comfortable bringing in Jones is if GW is the HC. I think that GW will have the patience and discipline to get in his face and put him in his place. I think that Cowher could do that as well, but I don't think that Cowher will be in the league this year.

I would not be sold until the regular season started next year and we have not heard any rumblings in the locker room.

The locker room is what I am afraid of losing. We have done a good job of bringing in guys that have meshed well and developed chemistry together. The coaching staff has also made it a point that character is a big part of the team. If Pacman starts to lose control then he becomes a distraction.

I am sorry fellas but I have to take the coaching philosophies in to account that Gibbs has tried to build here. So forgive me if I am a little pessimistic about bringing in Pacman Jones.
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SKINEM21


Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 594
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike23md wrote:
The only thing that would make me feel comfortable bringing in Jones is if GW is the HC. I think that GW will have the patience and discipline to get in his face and put him in his place. I think that Cowher could do that as well, but I don't think that Cowher will be in the league this year.

I would not be sold until the regular season started next year and we have not heard any rumblings in the locker room.

The locker room is what I am afraid of losing. We have done a good job of bringing in guys that have meshed well and developed chemistry together. The coaching staff has also made it a point that character is a big part of the team. If Pacman starts to lose control then he becomes a distraction.

I am sorry fellas but I have to take the coaching philosophies in to account that Gibbs has tried to build here. So forgive me if I am a little pessimistic about bringing in Pacman Jones.


Believe me, I am not a big fan of bringing in bad attitude players. However, whats the worste thats going to happen? We lose a 5th round pick? I am a big fan of biulding through the draft but the reward is much higher than the risk here. Give Pac Man a contract based on his behavior. If he doesnt get in any sort of trouble, then give him x amount of money. If he does have run ins with the law, then just tell him that we arent afraid to cut him.
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