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e16bball


Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 14996
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:22 pm    Post subject: Trade up or trade down? Reply with quote

What does anyone think is the best course of action for the Redskins in the draft?

1. Trade up- it would probably cost a player and a future or later rounds pick to pull this off...we would likely have to land in the top 3 in order to get our choice of mike williams or braylon edwards, as i think the bears will take one of those 2...however there is a very good chance that we could go up to 5 with TB and snag one of those 2...

2. Stand pat- at number 9 we are likely to take the highest rated pass rusher on our board if one of the top 2 WRs does not fall to us...at this point most say erasmus james is the best bet...also some say heath miller, but i personally feel that 9 is too early for him

3. Trade down- We could also move down in order to pick up some additional picks, especially a 2nd rounder to replace the one we gave up...in this case we could move down from 1-12 spots in my opinion and still be able to get a highly rated pass rusher or heath miller...we could then try to fill other holes with the additional picks

Skins fans, or any fans really, what do you think is the best course of action given this draft and the current state of the redskins roster?
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Redskins


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 2248
Location: Carlisle, England
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can't trade up, we only have 5 picks as it is - we need more picks, not less.
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e16bball


Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 14996
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Redskins-- would you prefer to trade down in order to get more picks, or stand at 9?
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Redskins


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 2248
Location: Carlisle, England
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we should trade down - i know we need to replace certain places but we have no second round pick or fifth round so we should trade down a bit and get a second round pick as well. We need some better players desperately.
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ctj0215


Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 53
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:31 pm    Post subject: what to do Reply with quote

I guess it depends on the goal of this draft. The skins are an old team and desperately need youth. That beign said, drafting players may not be the way to get GOOD youth.

The way I see it there are three positions of need for the redskins:

A good Pass rusher
A good, big, strong, fast receiver (think mushin muhamed but young)
and a good strong fast center

If the goal is playoffs in a hurry, a pass rusher is the easiest one of these to groom. Not easy, but easiest. BUT... there are TWO VERY good receivers popping up.

One of the three positions has to be our first round pick and I wouldnt want to trade down and get the second best guy in the draft.

If the redskins trade out gardner for third round pick (which is apparently close to what is being offered) then they could possibly move up to a position to grab one of edwards or williams (I prefer williams). it may even be possible to get him from our current spot. THis would be great considering the fact that I dont want 50-50 (gardner) on our team anymore.

The ofseason then will be focused entirely on shoring up the o-line and getting a passrusher. Positions that are available.

BUT... we could also go for one of the big stud Defensive ends, get a center in FA and cross our fingers that our passing game is just better.
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e16bball


Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 14996
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think youve hit the nail on the head with the redskins offseason needs ctj...i dont think coles is at his best as a number one receiver going against the best corners week in and week out...hes too small and subject to the jam...we need someone to put fear in defenses...and now that gardner is the subject of major trade rumors, i can definitely see the skins going hard for a big WR

center is definitely a need no question about it...cory raymer is not the answer, period

pass rushing DE i agree with again, we dont have that stud guy that affects o-line schemes and harrasses QBs all game...

i think there might be some other needs also...if smoot leaves (which i dont think he will) we will need to pick up a good nickel CB at worst and possibly a new starter if walt harris isnt the answer...also possibly a blocking TE b/c im not impressed with royal's blocking...

In order to tie this rambling spiel together, i think this indicates that the redskins CAN afford to trade up if need be to get williams...we are all very aware that the redskins do not mind a dearth of draft picks, and will trade away picks at the drop of the hat if they deem it the correct move...it should not be horribly difficult to pick up a solid C in free agency, and that leaves us only having to re-sign our own men (or replace the ones who leave) and get a good pass rusher (i have previously recommended chike okeafor from the seahawks)...getting a 2nd round pick would be nice, but after that round, the draft is basically a crapshoot...very few players even from the 3rd round develop into solid NFL starters...thus, i say the redskins should try to package some picks and players together if need be to snare one mike williams...but thats just my opinion
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e16bball


Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 14996
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i should also qualify what i said a minute back...if we cannot trade up to get mike williams, then by all means i think we should trade down...no one at DE is worthy of such an early pick and we could get an equal player at say number 17 and add possibly a pick this year and next...
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avbanig


Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 823
Location: Washington, DC
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I agree with eball, the skins should definelty make an attempt to move up and draft Mike Williams, but if they can't then I'd trade down and get more picks.

CTJ...how are the skins an old team???

Portis is what 24, Ramsey 25, Samuels 26, Arrington 26, Coles 27, Dockery 24, Thomas 28, Jansen 29, Cooley 22, Griffin 28, Pierce 26, Taylor 21, Smoot 25

I could keep going, I mean they have a couple of old guys on the team, but they are still a very young team, I think everyone looses sight of that.
There is plenty of room to grow for this team in the next couple of seasons, especially if they add players through the draft and a couple in FA that actually work out for once. Some how they have to get Mike Williams or one of the big name FA WR's and a pass rushing DE, other than that I think we just keep the team together, add young depth and in a year or 2 we should be fighting hard with the Eagles!
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ctj0215


Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 53
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:46 pm    Post subject: the skins Reply with quote

How do I say the skins are old... simple... they are. They def have a few guys who are good and young (unfortunately one of those guys is our starting QB - but ramsey will be fine witht he right tools). The skins average age is a little over 27 and last I checked that made us the 3rd oldest team. We have a few good developing superstars which is great but we also have a bunch of guys that are a little older.

Now... enough making fun of the team I've been a fan of since birth and more senseless strategizing.

Lets say that Snyder is the man. And he and Gibbs go nuts on those three or 4 (including CB since I am for trading smoot) open positions that REALLY need help.

Here are some possibilities:

I love Mike Williams... I think he will be a fantastic WR. HOWEVER, the operative word is think. We need a big play, downfield guy in the worst way. i would say this is our number 1 priority. So who do we get? Well there are a few possibilities out there including (and I know this is nuts) Randy the mooner Moss. Now we all know that the $$ might be tough with him on the roster and Minnesota probably won't let go of him lightly. BUT they need defense badly and we have some defense we can give him (Smoot, a Linebacker possibly arrington and probably our first round pick, maybe a late pick if we can trade for it). The other choice... and less costly and probably better down the road is to get a guy in the draft (williams... not edwards, I dont want another guy that is inconsistent). I would prefer williams, but I can see snyder's mouth watering at the prospect of gettin another headline in the wash post.

At CB, I think we may be fine just with Harris. He isnt anywhere near as good as smoot, but if Arrington sticks around and is healthy, and we get a good pass-rushing DE, we should be fine. QB won't have time to throw on him. If its a problem, its a problem I will worry about next draft.

DE. This is really important to me. WE MUST HAVE A GOODS PASSRUSHER. Our defense was sick this year because we could shut down their positive yardage. BUT, we need more turnovers and more sacks to WIN games with the D. So I want the best stud in the draft for pass rush. If we cant get a second first round pick then I want the best free agent out there. The list of FA DE is decent... I want a Freeny caliber pass-rusher that is just going to [inappropriate/removed] the QB off all day long.

and finally Center. Seriously... its a center. I couldnt even tell you the names of 6 centers in the league, but damnit... I just want one year where we dont have a hole in our o-line... ONE DAMN YEAR!!!!!! I want to see Ramsey have 10 seconds in the pocket ONCE in my life. SO SNYDER... DAMN YOU... GET ME AN O-LINE.

Alright.. bring on the attacks.
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ctj0215


Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 53
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW... look at the ages of our O-line. We have a 40 year old!!!
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ctj0215


Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 53
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike barrow, matt bowen, ray brown, ray brown, Backup brunnel, phillip daniels, lennie friedman, rod gardner, cornellius griffin, jermaine haley, walt harris (future starting CB), jon jansen, brian kozlowski, lemar marshal, brandon noble, cory raymer, joe salvae'a, chris samules, mike sellers, shawn springs, randy thomas, james thrash, ron warner, ron warner and renaldo wynn are all 29 or above (with the exception of about 5 guys on this list that are 28. Thats NFL old.

In two years, all of these guys will be in their 30s. I'm thinking that is not a recipe for longevity.
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e16bball


Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 14996
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that it is always nice to get youth, but i wouldnt agree that the redskins are a very old team...out of the guys you named, maybe 8 or 9 are starters and important pieces of the team...really only jansen, samuels, thomas, griffin, and springs are crucial team members that you listed...and 4 of those 5 are linemen who play well into their 30s...

in conclusion, the redskins could use youth for sure, but its not a necessity...the CB position could use a young stud, especially if smoot doesnt return...but all in all the skins are fairly young...i mean hey, we are already better than the cowboys and giants and they are much older than us!
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avbanig


Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 823
Location: Washington, DC
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ctj0215 wrote:
Mike barrow, matt bowen, ray brown, ray brown, Backup brunnel, phillip daniels, lennie friedman, rod gardner, cornellius griffin, jermaine haley, walt harris (future starting CB), jon jansen, brian kozlowski, lemar marshal, brandon noble, cory raymer, joe salvae'a, chris samules, mike sellers, shawn springs, randy thomas, james thrash, ron warner, ron warner and renaldo wynn are all 29 or above (with the exception of about 5 guys on this list that are 28. Thats NFL old.

In two years, all of these guys will be in their 30s. I'm thinking that is not a recipe for longevity.


Gardner is 26, and Griffin is 27, and almost half of those guys you have listed are around the same age, we jsut have guys that are in their prime right now, a couple of them like the obvious ones are old, and I admit we have to get rid of them like Barrow, Brunnell, and who knows about Brown, and hopefully Brown will be a back up next year, Barow won't be here nether will Gardner, Haley Raymer, and REnaldo Wynn, and Freidman, and we can replace them with younger players.

All I know is that we aren't that old, if you went to the redskins site and wen't down the line and looked at the ages of our players we have alot of players we are around 25 or younger, and we have about 10 who are around 30 or older, and hopefully next year these guys either won't be with the team, or they will just be backups.
And every team has guys in their late 20's jsut like the eagles, Patriots Falcons, and Steelers, and those are the players who are the best on each of there teams, because guys taht are around 28 are usually in there NFL prime!!
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ctj0215


Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 53
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

umm no... they are 27 and 28.... born in 1977 and 1978.

But beyond that look at the numbers... we are still one of the oldest teams in the NFL. We have SOME good young guys (taylor, CP, et al) but we are still in pain from a philosophy of sacrificing draft picks for veterans that snyder followed a few years back. I dont want to sacrifice ANY more draft picks unless it meant getting something AMAZING.

The thing that kills us is that our hot young guys that are developing dont exist.

BUT... I think it can be overcome but not with a philosophy of picking up old guys for young guys in the draft.

This is what I would do:

Get either mike williams or edwards in the draft with the 9th pick (which I really think one will be available if not both depending on offseason moves by chicago)

Get a second first round pick or possibly second rounder and get either DE pollack, cody or spears.

the rest of the draft picks should go to any sort of decent offensive linemen that bugle can try to develop (assuming we dont have a thrid round pick after maneuvering).

We can worry bout a replacement for smoot next year. I'm not convinced that harris wont do fine. Greg williams seems to like him and I have no reason not to trust him. Having the rush of arrington and a good DE and then trow in the occasional springs or taylor rush... teh defense should be tough to deal with.

The offense may still struggle until our o-line is really cohesive but if it gels, then ramsey will have great weapons: cooley, LC in the slot and cross routes, edwards or williams bullying out defenders for the long ball and of course CP. I think thats the real key... CP HAS to have better holes. 3.9 yards per carry wasnt terrible considering the lack of respect we got in the passing game but the holes werent that great.

Its close... real close... I can smell it.. this should be a good offseason. I really think the key here is developing a good passing game. If we get that... the skins are a ten win team, no problem, probably more. The best part about this team is that it should be good int he playoffs. Defensive teams always play better in january.
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ctj0215


Joined: 17 Jan 2005
Posts: 53
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry 1977 and 1976... too many numbers
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