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Chiefs Secondary Discussion

 
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Arrowhead86


Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 4454
Location: Kansas City
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:00 pm    Post subject: Chiefs Secondary Discussion Reply with quote

Well. I think this defense is so bad that each level needs it's own thread. I think I'll make another for the Offense for general talk.

As far as the secondary goes. Big big needs here ! I think the # one thing they lack is instinct. They don't recognize the route early .. I almost never see them jumping a 'slant' or 'hook' route ! They don't make good plays on the ball in the air. I believe his comes from drafting athletic ability rather than true college corners. Evidenced by :

Warfield - College Free Safety
Bartee - College Safety
Battle - College Strong Safety
Woods - College CB/S

(I mention Woods just to show how far back that tendency goes. At least Wesley WAS a college safety and is a pro safety.)



Woods worked out with his transition. He's been good for the Chiefs for a # years. His played has tailed off the past 2-3 years or so. Last year he did make a pro-bowl but was probably much more deserving earlier in his career than last year.

Warfield is hard to tell. As someone else mentioned in another thread, he has looked somewhat solid because the other side has been sooo bad and such easy picking that he doesn't get tested often. There are times he looks very comfortable out there and makes good plays .. there are other times when he never turns around and the reciever catches the ball right over top of him.

Bartee is a complete bust. He is a 1st down tool for opposing offenses ! He has no playmaking skill. Zero awareness when the balls in the air. It's just horrible.

Battle is an unknown. He hasn't impressed when given is opportunity to date.

So what do we do ?? Well thats what this thread is all about.

I am willing to have Warfield is the 2nd CB.

I am willing to look at Benny Sapp as our 'dime' CB. His size scares me.

I think Battle should move back to Safety.

I think McCleon should be let go.

I think Bartee should be sacrificed in the endzone at Arrowhead to excercise the demons ! excercise the demons. DEMONS BE GONE .. OR BE DAMNED ! Shocked

Wesley and Woods should be the starters @ Safety (for now - can't plug all the holes at once)

Shaunard Harts and Willie Pile . . I'm not sure about either of them but I think one might need to go with Battle moving over so these two would be evaluated during training camp.

We need a 1st string CB in FA. Someone like Fred Smoot, Ty Law or Charles Woodsen if healthy. 2nd teir options would be Gary Baxter, Andre Dyson, and Ken Lucas.

We need a true CB from the draft. Some of the options I previously have mentioned in other threads are returning to school but this is still a solid CB draft. If we only land a 2nd teir guy then we should stay at 15 and take what will probably be the 2nd Cb taken in the draft. My choice there would be either Carlos Rogers or Justin Miller. If we land a top teir guy. Trade Down ! Get more Picks ! Take best D player and if it wasn't a CB . . absolutely get one in the 2nd rnd !
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DT#58


Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 30
Location: NJ
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

warfield is difficult.
had a great start to the season.
i wouldnt mind him at 2, with a new #1 and a young guy from the draft.

i am very disapointed with woods.
i really thought with the return of gunther it would fire up woods, who was the most excited about getting gunther back.
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Arrowhead86


Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 4454
Location: Kansas City
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Gunthers return did fire him up ! I remember him hitting something fierce early in the season and the stupid zebra's whistled alot of that fire out of him. He got called on some very questionable personal fouls early on. Then injury finished him off Sad My only question with Woods is can he physically perform @ 100%. If he can I think he'll be alright . . if he can't .. Harts or possibly Battle should get in there. If we fix the other positions of need I'm ok with Harts starting in that spot. Honestly if Woods feels he's can't play at the level he wants .. retirement should be the choice. That would help the cap very nicely while allowing our defense to "get younger" !
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X-Factor82


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 2
Location: athens,ohio
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:35 pm    Post subject: Chiefs Secondary Dicussion Reply with quote

First the Chiefs Should try to get a solid cornerback. Then in april the chiefs BETTER get a cornerback like Antrel Rolle or Corey Webster. The Chiefs corners are so bad that i could be the cornerback guarding the opposing teams recievers. Gunther Cunningham should be fired in the beginning he was doing pretty good but he just lost it.
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mh


Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 98
Location: West Point, NY
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't blame Gunther for the defense this year. After all, Carl Peterson resigned basically the whole defense before Gunther was hired and those players were Greg Robinson's players. I think this offseason will make a big difference in the D because there's no way we won't make changes and get some impact players to put in Guntha's schemes.
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DT#58


Joined: 11 Jan 2005
Posts: 30
Location: NJ
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah.
you cant blame a man for failing with someone else's personel.
gunther is a great defensive mind, but he needs his players.
people like keith bulluck, who he single handidly created.
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Mongo


Joined: 17 Nov 2004
Posts: 770
Location: Englewood CO
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: Chiefs Secondary Discussion Reply with quote

Arrowhead86 wrote:
I believe his comes from drafting athletic ability rather than true college corners. Evidenced by :

Warfield - College Free Safety
Bartee - College Safety
Battle - College Strong Safety
Woods - College CB/S

(I mention Woods just to show how far back that tendency goes. At least Wesley WAS a college safety and is a pro safety.)


If you really want to go back, add Dale Carter to that list. He was an athletic safety at Tennessee. The difference is the switch to corner worked for him. Maybe that's why the Chiefs keep trying it.

I don't think we have a true idea for how well Warfield played this year. Teams stopped throwing at him because the other side was too easy.
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mh


Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 98
Location: West Point, NY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know Conservative Carl would never do it, but what if we traded up to get DJ or Antrel Rolle? We'd have to give up probably this years 1st and 3rd and maybe a 2nd or 3rd next year, but I think DJ and Antrel may be worth that. The thing is I have NO HOPE at all of this happening but it's fun to dream. Some of the mock drafts I see on here have KC trading with Tennesee or Chicago.

Also look at Kiper's first mock draft on ESPN.com. I think it's pretty questionable....DJ falling to 12, Pac Man Jones going ahead of Rolle (who falls to us).
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conkiejoe


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ESPN has been giving pac man tons of props as early as last month. Here's hoping Mel Kiper knows what he's talking about and rolle does fall to us. With the combine upcoming there are players bound to jump on and off the radar so who knows. But if you had to make a call without adding any free agents(GOD HELP US) would you take a linebacker or corner as our biggest need? Just curious what others thought.
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Arrowhead86


Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 4454
Location: Kansas City
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

based on need alone i would say a cb before a lb for the Chiefs. the problem that many teams are realizing this year is that the value of the corner position is changing now that the new emphasis on the rules have hamstrung corners so much. that being said linebacker might be a better choice in looking for an impact player for every down . . if we end up at 15 and get a corner . . he damn sure better like to play run support and have some swagger when in man coverage ! i dont want a brash cocky corner that celebrates like he won the super bowl every tackle or deflection he makes but he does need to have a swagger and attitude that it's his turf and the receiver needs to STEP !
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Throw to score! Run to win!
2014 Adopt-A-Chief: #29 Eric Berry, S
Stats: Irrelevant Status: Chief family for life!
Get well soon EB29!!
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mh


Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 98
Location: West Point, NY
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's why I like Rolle, Jones, Jackson, Miller, and Rogers in that order. Anyone who's watched Rolle knows that he's a great in run support and a good blitzer as well. Pac Man is a sledgehammer, even though he doesn't have the biggest body he throws his around.

The thing about all these guys is that there is going to be so much pressure on them to perform immediately. As much as I don't want to admit it, the vast majority of KC fans are going to expect anyone we draft to make a huge difference and I don't think that will happen with just one young player; we're going to have to be patient and allow the D to grow and learn from Gunther. I think we're on the right track and as all of us know Chiefs fans are the best in the NFL no matter what anyone else says. We'll all support whatever happens to our team, through the highs and lows.
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