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Wow, maybe there is hope!
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inkwell


Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 549
Location: Maryland
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:08 am    Post subject: Wow, maybe there is hope! Reply with quote

At the bottom of the Sean Taylor article in the Washington Post today, there is a much more important blurb. Apparently Joe Gibbs is committing heresy. He is experimenting with giving up his long held football principles and is implementing zone blocking up front, stretch running plays for Clinton Portis and the shotgun. In the past Gibbs has been adament about certain things. For him to give up his power running attack is big news. I have said often and loud that Portis cant take the pounding of being a Gibbs prime back and isnt suited for it anyway. If he goes to zone blocking and stretch plays, Portis becomes ideal. As for the shotgun, he had fought implementing it when reporters hounded him about it years ago in Gibb's reign I. I guess you CAN teach an old dog new tricks. Maybe this team CAN move to the middle of the pack offensively. Now if they will start Mccants and Thrash, they might have enough downfield blocking to spring Portis for some seriously long runs every game!
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sootedpair


Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 2188
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last year, had they been at the middle of the pack on offense (ie 21 pts/gm), they would have gone 13-3.
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Taylor-36 Portis-26


Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 2163
Location: Earth
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew about him using the shotgun but this is great news for the running game and Portis, hopefully it will get him back up to that 5.3 ypc that he averaged.
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TheFranchise


Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 22
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zone blocking up front, stretch running plays Gibbs used it once beofre with Timmy Smith and look what Timmy did with it. Just Imagine a guy like POrtis running in the kind of system.
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riggensghost


Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 403
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gibbs is a winner and it not because he knows the secrets to winning, its because he knows there are no secrets and that to be a winner you have to adapt to the game, whatever that may be. Yeah his first year was tough, especially watching some of his clock management, play calling and his time out / play challenge, but he was learning. He is more eager for a winner here than anyone and his evolution is proving it.

Middle of the pack offensively puts us at 13-3 last year? That is unbelieveable.
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SMASHMOUTH 31ROY


Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 1084
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be careful what you wish for.This could go either way.
First let me start by saying I didnt come here to bash.
Just talk football.Gibbs changing could be bad.He is
not used to coaching this style of play and last I heard
he is still the primary play caller.Whoever said he ran
stretch plays with Smith is mistaken its always been the ole
counter trey power run game with Gibbs.Not that it matters
Smith was a 1 game wonder 236 SB game.This would definitely
better suit you guys personel.Portis,Moss, and Patten
but the question now is can the coaching staff call
an effective efficient game?In the long run it prolly is
for the better but for now I think not.Better hope
they figure it out before you go into cap hell.
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Thanks for the sig Mighty Mouse 07!!
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e16bball


Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 14996
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SMASHMOUTH 31ROY wrote:
Be careful what you wish for.This could go either way.
First let me start by saying I didnt come here to bash.
Just talk football.Gibbs changing could be bad.He is
not used to coaching this style of play and last I heard
he is still the primary play caller.Whoever said he ran
stretch plays with Smith is mistaken its always been the ole
counter trey power run game with Gibbs.Not that it matters
Smith was a 1 game wonder 236 SB game.This would definitely
better suit you guys personel.Portis,Moss, and Patten
but the question now is can the coaching staff call
an effective efficient game?In the long run it prolly is
for the better but for now I think not.Better hope
they figure it out before you go into cap hell.


I appreciate Boys' fans who can talk sensibly about football and not bash, although that "cap hell" comment was a bit gratuitous, but oh well.

In response to the question of "Can Gibbs call an effective game with the additions of zone blocking and shotgun?" I would say yes. And I'm not saying that because I think Gibbs is fully comfortable with either of those tactics; I'm saying it because I think he understands offensive philosophy, and the general purpose of each play. I don't think I'm being totally clear about that...its one of those things where you know what you mean, but you have a hard time putting it into words. Let me try again if I failed the first time. Gibbs may not be comfortable creating and designing an offense with these new facets, and may have to rely on Musgrave and others to install that portion of the offense. But I do think that he will be comfortable using them in a game situation because he knows the designed goal and purpose of those sorts of plays and how they fit into an overall gameplan. I guess the analogy would be an advanced computer user as opposed to a computer technician. The user couldn't put the computer together or create the programs, but once they are in place, he can learn quickly how to use them effectively. Hope that wasn't poorly written and phrased as to obscure the meaning.
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SMASHMOUTH 31ROY


Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 1084
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The cap hell statement was not meant to be negative
but as I see it as many others do,it is inevitable.As
far as your analogy with programmers and users.It
could possibly go off without a hitch but IMO its just
not that easy to change the way you have been doing
things.A comparison would be that Martz is going to
turn the Rams into a power running team.Its not like
going to stretch plays,zone blocking and shotgun is a
subtle switch from the power running H-back scheme
its pretty much apples and oranges.As I said it would
help yor skill position players but you are doing this at
the expense of your o-line and your coaching staff.In
order to run this scheme you need smaller quick lineman
that can make snap decisions on which guy to block.Your
line is set up to pound people.Jansen and Samuels the core
of your line do not fit this description.Your skill position
and your line just dont match.You have a smashmouth
line.With quick skill position players that are not known
for there physicality.Its not a good match the old way
or the new way IMO.
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Thanks for the sig Mighty Mouse 07!!
TO is the first playmaker in Big D since #88
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inkwell


Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 549
Location: Maryland
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sootedpair wrote:
Last year, had they been at the middle of the pack on offense (ie 21 pts/gm), they would have gone 13-3.



Exactly! for once I wasnt being facetious or snide or malicious in a post about the Skins . . . in fact I think I will go take my temperature, I must be sick Razz

Of course if my Colts make it to the middle of the pack on defense, we might be able to beat the Pats . . . naaah
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inkwell


Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 549
Location: Maryland
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

riggensghost wrote:
Gibbs is a winner and it not because he knows the secrets to winning, its because he knows there are no secrets and that to be a winner you have to adapt to the game, whatever that may be. Yeah his first year was tough, especially watching some of his clock management, play calling and his time out / play challenge, but he was learning. He is more eager for a winner here than anyone and his evolution is proving it.

Middle of the pack offensively puts us at 13-3 last year? That is unbelieveable.


oh please! do you expect us to buy that nonsense? He was head coach in Washington for what? 11 years? and he NEVER varied from his formula. I remember the press taking him to task over and over about the shotgun and he just said he didnt like it. This guy has never adjusted to his talent. He brought in talent to fit his sytem. I dont mean tweaking the play calling to adjust to the difference between a Theisman and a Williams. I mean core principles like a power running attack.

And I might be wrong but I dont remember the Hogs going to zone blocking for T Smith.
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sootedpair


Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 2188
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

inkwell wrote:
This guy has never adjusted to his talent. He brought in talent to fit his sytem.


Isn't that what every head coach does?
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inkwell


Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 549
Location: Maryland
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sootedpair wrote:
inkwell wrote:
This guy has never adjusted to his talent. He brought in talent to fit his sytem.


Isn't that what every head coach does?


I would have to think about that. It is a good question.

I know that Don Shula ran teams with Marino throwing a billion times a game and he also ran teams with Csonka and Kiick running power football with a low risk QB. And for that matter he also ran teams with a speed back in Mercury Morris. Is he the exception that proves the rule? I will have to get back to you on that. Very Happy
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SMASHMOUTH 31ROY


Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 1084
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most successful coaches do not adjust their principles
for personel,they adjust their personel to their principles.
It alot easier to get guys that play the way you coach,as
opposed to changing the way you coach.Very few successful
coaches have had success in changing their core principles.
If not for the Shula info in this thread I wouldnt have been
able to think of any.Think about the championship coaches.
All their teams play basically the same way.Walsh=west coast,
Parcells=Smashmouth,Gibbs=Smashmouth,J.Johnson=balanced O
quickness on D,Belicheck is IMO the only other exception to
this rule.He seems to be a chameleon easily adjusting year to
year even game to game depending on personel.I would say
he and Shula are exceptions to the rule.The rule being if you
play for me you play my way.Thats why you here so much
about buying into the system on winning teams.The only
way this happens is by the coach convincing his troops
that he knows best.Gibbs switching IMO is telling his troops
that he is trying to figure it out.That is not a leader to many will
follow IMO.Only time will tell but if I were a Skins fan which Im
obviously not,I would want to dance with the girl I bought to
the dance.Smashmouth Football.
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Thanks for the sig Mighty Mouse 07!!
TO is the first playmaker in Big D since #88
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sootedpair


Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 2188
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SMASHMOUTH 31ROY wrote:
That is not a leader to many will
follow IMO.Only time will tell but if I were a Skins fan which Im
obviously not,I would want to dance with the girl I bought to
the dance.Smashmouth Football.


Why would you take a hooker to a dance?

With all of the blitzing going on these days, you have to use the shotgun. I think Gibbs has realized that.
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e16bball


Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 14996
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have to agree with the idea that generally coaches fit their personnel to their principles. This is evidenced, I believe, in the fluid nature of the Redskins' roster over the past few years. We had "smashmouth" football when Marty was in town, and he brought in the personnel for that. Then Spurrier showed up with the "(Not So) Fun and Gun" and brought in the type of players he needed (or thought he needed) to execute the wide-open pass-happy attack. Now that Gibbs is back, we are reverting to the more physical, run-oriented style of play, except with the wrinkle of the deep ball included. These diametrically opposed philosophies have led to a constant state of rebuilding the team, and as a result, the roster is constantly in flux. Thus, we are always in need of several big signings to give our offense what it needs. The same is true on defense; we have lacked continuity even more on that side of the ball, and are constantly readjusting to the new philosophy.
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