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Russel "secretly" doesn't want to play for Oakland
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kitsnow


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:28 pm    Post subject: hmmm. Reply with quote

I almost hope they don't sign him and let him re-enter the draft.
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Blaze


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He has no rights, he needs to play
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Enrage


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about we do an over/under for Russel's weight when he finally gets his contract signed? Lets say 265...
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enrage wrote:
How about we do an over/under for Russel's weight when he finally gets his contract signed? Lets say 265...


Man, so true.

As much as I hate Quinn, at least he was shown in the gym everyday during his hold out...I've been wanting to see the same thing from Russel.
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RAIDER523


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

War Room Slayer wrote:
Enrage wrote:
How about we do an over/under for Russel's weight when he finally gets his contract signed? Lets say 265...


Man, so true.

As much as I hate Quinn, at least he was shown in the gym everyday during his hold out...I've been wanting to see the same thing from Russel.


I'm afraid hes been at the "WAFFLE HOUSE" this whole time.
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js.HippiE


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

he will be 272
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Nopussycat


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If he did say something to that affect it's probably frustration. He is going to be a Raider and it will happen sometime this season. It just goes to show how inept the Raiders organization has become. He isn't asking for anything that hasn't been given to the number one pick before. If Al Davis wasn't such a nut job now, the Raiders wouldn't be picking first.
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redsoxsrule1437


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

273 Im guessing.
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nickdawg


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nopussycat wrote:
If he did say something to that affect it's probably frustration. He is going to be a Raider and it will happen sometime this season. It just goes to show how inept the Raiders organization has become. He isn't asking for anything that hasn't been given to the number one pick before. If Al Davis wasn't such a nut job now, the Raiders wouldn't be picking first.


Wow....

So, wanting in excess of $36 MILLION when he'd only be entitled to $30ish million is the fault of Al Davis?

And Oakland wanting no money whatsoever in an option bonus so, in the event of a default they'd be able to get some of their money back, and Russell's camp flat-out refusing (even though Calvin Johnson's deal has no option bonus), THAT is the fault of Al Davis?

There's ineptitude to speak of here, but it comes from Russell's agents (who have NEVER negotiated a #1 overall pick before), and people who are so quick to point the finger at Al Davis and say "Clearly, it's his fault." Just because they don't like him....

And I'm pretty sure it was only one particular loss that kept YOUR team from picking first...
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Nopussycat


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nickdawg wrote:
Nopussycat wrote:
If he did say something to that affect it's probably frustration. He is going to be a Raider and it will happen sometime this season. It just goes to show how inept the Raiders organization has become. He isn't asking for anything that hasn't been given to the number one pick before. If Al Davis wasn't such a nut job now, the Raiders wouldn't be picking first.


Wow....

So, wanting in excess of $36 MILLION when he'd only be entitled to $30ish million is the fault of Al Davis?

And Oakland wanting no money whatsoever in an option bonus so, in the event of a default they'd be able to get some of their money back, and Russell's camp flat-out refusing (even though Calvin Johnson's deal has no option bonus), THAT is the fault of Al Davis?

There's ineptitude to speak of here, but it comes from Russell's agents (who have NEVER negotiated a #1 overall pick before), and people who are so quick to point the finger at Al Davis and say "Clearly, it's his fault." Just because they don't like him....

And I'm pretty sure it was only one particular loss that kept YOUR team from picking first...


NickDawg, slow down my friend. I know how inept the Lions front office is. I understand Russell's agents are green but I believe the hang up is over the option bonus which, if I'm not mistaken Frisco gave Alex Smith. Everyone and their mamma knows Russell is not getting 36 million in bonus money. It's my opinion that since the Raiders had the first pick and they had already been speaking to these agents prior to the draft, they had to have had some idea that these hangups were coming. The Raiders chose Russell and his agents, and not the other way around.
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nickdawg


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nopussycat wrote:
NickDawg, slow down my friend. I know how inept the Lions front office is. I understand Russell's agents are green but I believe the hang up is over the option bonus which, if I'm not mistaken Frisco gave Alex Smith. Everyone and their mamma knows Russell is not getting 36 million in bonus money. It's my opinion that since the Raiders had the first pick and they had already been speaking to these agents prior to the draft, they had to have had some idea that these hangups were coming. The Raiders chose Russell and his agents, and not the other way around.


I wasn't saying anything about your front office. I was pointing out that the only thing keeping you guys from the #1 pick was our loss to the Texans.

And I know San Fran gave Alex Smith an option bonus. But, that was before the grievance Denver filed against Ashley Lelie where it was determined that option bonuses are not subject to forfeiture in the event of a contract default. So, the idea of not giving out option bonuses is relatively new. And, clearly, wanting as much money as possible in said option bonus is only meant to protect a person who has a higher probability of defaulting said contract.

Do you remember Draft weekend? I had the unfortunate duty of working that day, but I did sneak out early to watch. As it turns out, the Raiders were talking with, not only Russell, but also Johnson and Quinn. (there were also reports that a deal with Quinn was nearing....) The point is, if you're negotiating with three different players at the same time....on Draft day, no less.....you're not discussing the intricicies of the deal. You're discussing the bottom line dollar amount. Which is NOT the holdup in this instance.
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Nopussycat


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nickdawg wrote:
Nopussycat wrote:
NickDawg, slow down my friend. I know how inept the Lions front office is. I understand Russell's agents are green but I believe the hang up is over the option bonus which, if I'm not mistaken Frisco gave Alex Smith. Everyone and their mamma knows Russell is not getting 36 million in bonus money. It's my opinion that since the Raiders had the first pick and they had already been speaking to these agents prior to the draft, they had to have had some idea that these hangups were coming. The Raiders chose Russell and his agents, and not the other way around.


I wasn't saying anything about your front office. I was pointing out that the only thing keeping you guys from the #1 pick was our loss to the Texans.

And I know San Fran gave Alex Smith an option bonus. But, that was before the grievance Denver filed against Ashley Lelie where it was determined that option bonuses are not subject to forfeiture in the event of a contract default. So, the idea of not giving out option bonuses is relatively new. And, clearly, wanting as much money as possible in said option bonus is only meant to protect a person who has a higher probability of defaulting said contract.

Do you remember Draft weekend? I had the unfortunate duty of working that day, but I did sneak out early to watch. As it turns out, the Raiders were talking with, not only Russell, but also Johnson and Quinn. (there were also reports that a deal with Quinn was nearing....) The point is, if you're negotiating with three different players at the same time....on Draft day, no less.....you're not discussing the intricicies of the deal. You're discussing the bottom line dollar amount. Which is NOT the holdup in this instance.


All good points. And I concide it that area. Russell's point is "if you think I'm going to default then why did you draft me" which I understand. The Raiders stand point is that Lelie's decision make this type of bonus too risky which I also agree with. Unfortunately, Russell wants a comparible deal to Alex Smith, at least as far as the language of the contract and I just believe the Raiders should have had some idea this might be an issue and maybe, I don't know ,asked.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nopussycat wrote:
All good points. And I concide it that area. Russell's point is "if you think I'm going to default then why did you draft me" which I understand. The Raiders stand point is that Lelie's decision make this type of bonus too risky which I also agree with. Unfortunately, Russell wants a comparible deal to Alex Smith, at least as far as the language of the contract and I just believe the Raiders should have had some idea this might be an issue and maybe, I don't know ,asked.


Humor me here....

Let's say Russell's point really is "if you think I'm going to default, then why did you draft me?"

If you look at this from a completely unbiased point of view (which I admittedly have a hard time doing), it's not that the Raiders think Russell *IS* going to default, it's simply protection in the instance that he *DOES* default.

Since the ink on the ruling of the option bonuses still hasn't dried from last year, this is completely uncharted territory for anyone invloved. But, what Oakland is insisting upon is something that is no longer going to be unique. We saw the same thing with Carolina and their first rounder, Jon Beason. And you saw yourself that Detroit didn't give Calvin Johnson an option bonus.

Like I said, this is something we're going to see more and more of. And for good reason. You're trusting kids.....friggin' KIDS!!!..... with multi-million dollar contracts. Some of them are going to get themselves into trouble. Obviously, the rich guys handing out the huge bonuses are going to want some kind of protection on their investment. And, if making bonus money available for forfeiture does the job, then so be it. ESPECIALLY when you consider the fact that bonus money is a downpayment on future performance. If your pick isn't performing because, say, he got caught in a dogfighting ring, aren't you going to want something back in return?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nickdawg wrote:
Nopussycat wrote:
All good points. And I concide it that area. Russell's point is "if you think I'm going to default then why did you draft me" which I understand. The Raiders stand point is that Lelie's decision make this type of bonus too risky which I also agree with. Unfortunately, Russell wants a comparible deal to Alex Smith, at least as far as the language of the contract and I just believe the Raiders should have had some idea this might be an issue and maybe, I don't know ,asked.


Humor me here....

Let's say Russell's point really is "if you think I'm going to default, then why did you draft me?"

If you look at this from a completely unbiased point of view (which I admittedly have a hard time doing), it's not that the Raiders think Russell *IS* going to default, it's simply protection in the instance that he *DOES* default.

Since the ink on the ruling of the option bonuses still hasn't dried from last year, this is completely uncharted territory for anyone invloved. But, what Oakland is insisting upon is something that is no longer going to be unique. We saw the same thing with Carolina and their first rounder, Jon Beason. And you saw yourself that Detroit didn't give Calvin Johnson an option bonus.

Like I said, this is something we're going to see more and more of. And for good reason. You're trusting kids.....friggin' KIDS!!!..... with multi-million dollar contracts. Some of them are going to get themselves into trouble. Obviously, the rich guys handing out the huge bonuses are going to want some kind of protection on their investment. And, if making bonus money available for forfeiture does the job, then so be it. ESPECIALLY when you consider the fact that bonus money is a downpayment on future performance. If your pick isn't performing because, say, he got caught in a dogfighting ring, aren't you going to want something back in return?


Nick, I agree with you and the Raiders on this point. I merely feel the ineptitude on the Raiders part was to not see this coming and we all know Jamarcus is a risky pick as is far as he has had some trouble with conditioning. They knew this is the guy they wanted even if they were using Quinn and Johnson as smoke screens and bargaining tools. You can't tell me that the Raiders hadn't looked at Smith's contract and didn't have any idea. I merely playing the devil's advocate by saying that if Russell's representation doesn't get a "better" deal than Alex Smith than they will never get a possible No. 1 again. By losing this type of bonus every future first pick will be missing out on ALOT of REAL guaranteed money.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nopussycat wrote:
If he did say something to that affect it's probably frustration. He is going to be a Raider and it will happen sometime this season. It just goes to show how inept the Raiders organization has become. He isn't asking for anything that hasn't been given to the number one pick before. If Al Davis wasn't such a nut job now, the Raiders wouldn't be picking first.


Priot to the draft, I think it was during the combine, Russel said to an interviewer in response to the question "Does it matter to you that you may go first in the draft?" by saying, "Whoever gives me the most money."
This told me he was clearly driven by money, which is fine to some degree. I'd want top dollar, too. But to demand a guaranteed $12-15M more than what the #1 pick got just 2 years ago is just plain greedy.

As for Al Davis, he and his front office have never been unwilling to pay the necessary dollars to bring in players, so to call this whole travesty a problem directly related to the fault of the Raiders ability to do business is ignorant.

I would hasten to say that every Owner/President in the league is happy, if not thrilled, that the Raiders are taking a stance on this runaway train. Otherwise, the top pick will be demanding $50 in guarantees by 2010.
This needs to be stamped out immediately or else the precedent of the #1 getting $6M more than the guy a year before ( without every handling a snap ) will become the norm.

Guess what Pussycat...this will equal higher ticket prices, higher parking prices ( because $25 a game is already such a bargain ), higher cable television prices, you'll pay more for your beer, Coke, and fast food. Many of us will have to cancel Direct TV when it becomes $400 a season.

And Nick, you and I both know what Al Davis has done for this league. And anyone older than 30 knows that he has done more for the NFL than any owner in the league since its inception.
Calling him random names because it's funny is for non fans who have only seen him in his luxury box with his eclectic outfits.

It's been a tough run the last 4 years, and it's easy for the newbies to laugh at us ( and hard for me to defend ) but the history of the Raiders is only bettered by a handful of teams.

We'll be back.
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