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Phreak


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5466
Location: Philadelphia, PA
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant wrote:
I am a cowboys fan and I come in peace. I have tons a respect for McNabb, Andy Reid and the Eagles all togather....except for, you know who T.O. He is one of the most selfish and disrespecting football players I have ever seen in my life. When he went out and spiked the ball in the Star of Pride(I made it up, not the real name) I almost had a Heart attack. The Eagles Orginaztion went way out of character signing a player like that , because Andy Reid usually likes to stay away from selfish me-first players. They should take the cap hit and release him or he will tear your team apart.


Your right, they did go out of there way and sign a player like that. But when you have a guy like donovan mcnabb who has never had the greatness of a WR like terrell owens, then your going to do everything you can to get him. They were right in signing terrell owens. I disagree on cutting him. He will come to his senses and realize how stupid this hold out is and hell be catching TDs for mcnabb all season long, and then the big one in detroit.
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ok go26


Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 5156
Location: outside Philly
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phreak wrote:


Your right, they did go out of there way and sign a player like that. But when you have a guy like donovan mcnabb who has never had the greatness of a WR like terrell owens, then your going to do everything you can to get him. They were right in signing terrell owens. I disagree on cutting him. He will come to his senses and realize how stupid this hold out is and hell be catching TDs for mcnabb all season long, and then the big one in detroit.


i agree 100%. and as for that whole "one of the most selfish and disrespecting football players I have ever seen in my life" thing, we've seen worse, only in freddie's case, he couldn't put up the numbers to back up his mouth.
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JBlovethosebirds


Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 379
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just for the record if the Eagles cut TO they save 1.7 million in cap space.
Banner is no fool and thought this situation out. He set up the bonus as a roster bonus not a signing bonus so most of it counted against 2004 and
is therefore not a problem in 2005.

TO will be cut or traded because of his mouth. TO will bad mouth AR, Lourie, and Banner and they will show him the door.
He will have little trade value because of his mouth.

Why will TO do this ?
Because he is 32 and this is his last major contract.
As he says " Show Me The Money !!!!!!!!!! "
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eagles101


Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 9180
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

we are not goin to cut him he would just be fined all season and we get or money back we will only trade him we are going to do to him what we did to duce
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JBlovethosebirds


Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 379
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duce was a good soldier and keep quiet.
Also, He was going to be a FA at the end of the season.
TO is not a FA so only way to become free is act up !
If TO starts to call andy bad names
He will be gone. Count on it.
Show me the Money !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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eagles101


Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 9180
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the team already said there fine if he sitts out they will just take his signing bonus and this years pay so i think hes going to come back the same time duce did
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JBlovethosebirds


Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 379
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eagles101 says:
the team already said there fine if he sitts out they will just take his signing bonus and this years pay so i think hes going to come back the same time duce did
============================
But I say,
If TO wants out all he has to do is show up on ESPN
and say Andy is a Fat A** hole dumb coach ! and
Andy would call the show to cut TO
It would be great TV !
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weseverett


Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 580
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 10:30 pm    Post subject: Act Up Reply with quote

Don't understand all the intricacies, but I suspect TO will try to get cut by acting out. Then try to resign as a free agent.

Would be awesome to see the Eagles do what is necessary to recoup as much of their signing bonus and then cut him lose. Unfortunately, some other team would sign him and he then gets his way.

If I were Andy Reid I would design a bunch of routes for TO over the middle in Spring Training and have McNabb throw the ball high.
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liquid


Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 129
Location: Manhattan (Go Eagles!)
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T.O. is going nowhere. He will be an Eagle. He has no contractual recourse. The Eagles will make a statement. T.O. is not Freddie Mitchell. Mitchell has no game. T.O. is one of the very top tier of WRs in the NFL.

T.O. has more to lose than the Eagles do. He's due 3.25 million next year and then a big roster bonus next March. This contract is very cap friendly for this year. The Eagles have absolutely no incentive to release him.

1) barely counts against the cap

2) negative incentive b/c of the 6 years left on his contract. The 10 million or so signing bonus is prorated over the 7 years of the contract for cap purposes. If the Eagles were to cut him 6/7 of that number would come due right away. That's about 8.5 million dollars that would be "Dead Money" against the cap. The Eagles loathe "dead" cap space even more so then Freddie Mithchell and John Welborne. We are not talking about 350 dead cap space money like when the released Freddie Mitchell. We are talking about 8.5 million dollars in dead cap money. The Eagles wanted this deal to be at least 4 years and maybe more if his skills don't erode over time.

There is no way that he gets released. If he is traded for a pick the same thing happens, i.e. the Eagles take a big dead money cap hit. That's not going to happen. they would rather have him sit out.

If he sits out what is Owens' recourse

1. He sits out and loses money that he will never make back

2. He is still obligated for the lifetime of the deal

3. If this really gets messy and he sits out for a long time the Eagles could try and go after part of that signing bonus like the Dolphins did with Ricky Williams.

The system my not be equitable in the fact that the contracts aren't guarenteed, but it's the system. The player should know going in that the only guarentee is the signing bonus and any other guaranteed roster bonuses. Nobody put a gun to his head when he signed. There were only two teams that made offers and Baltimore wasn't going to renegotiate the deal like the Eagles did.

and finally... Has T.O. not totally destroyed any market value he would have if he were on the free market now? He's pulling the same stuff with the Eagles that he did with the Niners. He's a cancer and he only cares about himself. Do you think that another team is going to give him a big signing bonus when after he receives it there are no guarantees that he wont pull the same thing all over again?

I don't think that any team would take that chance. he can't be trusted.

I say T.O. comes back and plays and gets his roster bonus after the year and stays with the Eagles for 3 years through 2007 when the cap hit becomes more palatable to the Eagles salary structure.

Any thoughts?
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PhillyTransplant


Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 296
Location: St. Louis
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liquid makes a lot of sense but doesn't the team have 2 other things to consider.....

1.force him to sit. If he comes back but they don't want him or the cap hit, they can tell him to sit (like TB did with Keyshawn). they don't get his talent but don't have to deal with him in the locker room or give in to his demands or an accelerated hit -- does this affect the 53 man roster though?

2. they can just wait until after June 1st and they take a small hit this year and then a hit next year's cap (but they have time on working on other's contracts - Westy, MLewis, etc.--maybe McNabb would help by reworking his a little) to make a trade workable.

He'll have at least some value on a trade market although it would probably have to be undervalued or provisinal (like Ricky's 3rd rounder that ended up being a 1st) but I don't know if it would be enough to consider moving him.
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TIMLEG


Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 105
Location: The Mount
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i wouldn't like to see him not play for two reasons.

#1 madden, so everyone doesn't use the eagles.
#2 playoffs, maybe packers can get past the first round?
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raven5255


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Most Valuable Poster (6th Ballot)

Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 13634
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems like the relationship between TO and the Eagles, espeically McNabb is really starting to breakdown. I swear it seems like everyday on sportscenter or PTI or Around the Horn, there is more news about how more and more tension is building up between TO and McNabb or between TO and Andy Reid or between TO and the front office. TO needs to realize what hes doing, if he doesnt get straightned out soon, this damage to the relationship between TO and the team may not be repairable. Im sure you Eagles fans are fed up with him right? If he keeps this up and eventual decides to play, do you think he will get the same kind of love from the fans and media that he got last year? If this isnt straighted out soon, it becomes less and less likely that TO will be playing next year for the Eagles.
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JBlovethosebirds


Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 379
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HELLO !

Just for the record I say this again

Just for the record if the Eagles cut TO they save 1.7 million in cap space.
Banner is no fool and thought this situation out. He set up the bonus as a roster bonus not a signing bonus so most of it counted against 2004 and
is therefore not a problem in 2005.

Stop with this Cap Hit talk = Its incorrect facts
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PhillyTransplant


Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 296
Location: St. Louis
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JB -- how can they have a $10 million last year as a bonus and have none of it left as dead money either this year or next year? I understand roster bonuses and stuff but they didn't take a huge hit last year did they? And when you say they save 1.7 mill if they cut him does that mean Lurie's out of pocket or against the cap space? The place where I here 1.7 mill was how much of the signing bonus they could recoup for him missing the camp......Please explain how is contract is set up so we can understand better how it affects the cap (this year and next)
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JBlovethosebirds


Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 379
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi PhillyTransplant,
Yes the Eagles had enough cap roon last year to write of 6.2 million off
as a roster bonus which counts all against 2004.

Only 2.3 million was a signing bonus over 6 yrs = $383,000 per yr
$2,300,000 minus 2 yrs bonus $766,000 = $1,534,000 left

Roster Bonus applies to one yr and
Signing Bonus is spread out over the term of the contract
Signing Bonus applies to Cap in total if the contact is terminated before
the term of the contract

So if TO is cut the eagles take a 1,534,000 million bonus hit against the cap which comes forward but they save TO's 2005 salary which is $3,250,000 so they have a net savings for 2005 against the cap
3,250,000 minus 1,534,000 = $1,716,000 cap savings

Real money savings is $3,250,000 since TO already has the bonus
but he does not have this yrs salary !
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