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Philip Rivers...yes or no
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Do you want the Cowboys to trade a number one draft choice to the Chargers for Philip Rivers?
Yes
36%
 36%  [ 11 ]
No
63%
 63%  [ 19 ]
Total Votes : 30

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boondocksaint14


Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 417
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:38 am    Post subject: Well Reply with quote

Whoa Whoa Whoa, how do you say Rivers is a star already and Henson isnt?????

We havent seen either one play enough to label them STAR or too much of a project.

Henson was the better prospect coming out of college, so he gets the heads up there. He has a better contract, better arm strength, better size and mobility.

Only thing Rivers has on Henson is that he's younger, and didnt take time off from football.

Rivers has an unorthadox throwing motion and was labeled a late second, early 3rd round pick until he won the Senior Bowl MVP and Marty Schotts fell in love with him.

From what I've seen with the limited playing time in pre-season and at the end of the year with the Bolts, I saw nothing to point to his "Star" potential.

If anything he looked nervous and not ready to lead a team. Not that there's anything wrong with that he is only a rookie, but so is Henson.

We need to keep Henson and groom him as the future of this franchise until he proves otherwise.

Its amazing to me how many people are willing to throw him to the curb, b/c he wasnt a star in year one. The guy has obvious physical skills, he is a 2 sport athlete after all.

Im all for getting an experienced QB in here for a year or 2....ie Drew Bledsoe or Brad Johnson.

When Henson is ready he will be a great QB for us. We need to address way to many other area's in the draft and FA.

As of right now a playmaking WR should be top priority in the draft and then either a DT/LB.

FA can fill holes in the secondary and possibly get us a star D-lineman.
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CTCowboysFan


Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 2586
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:45 am    Post subject: Re: Well Reply with quote

boondocksaint14 wrote:
Whoa Whoa Whoa, how do you say Rivers is a star already and Henson isnt?????

We havent seen either one play enough to label them STAR or too much of a project.

Henson was the better prospect coming out of college, so he gets the heads up there. He has a better contract, better arm strength, better size and mobility.

Only thing Rivers has on Henson is that he's younger, and didnt take time off from football.

Rivers has an unorthadox throwing motion and was labeled a late second, early 3rd round pick until he won the Senior Bowl MVP and Marty Schotts fell in love with him.

From what I've seen with the limited playing time in pre-season and at the end of the year with the Bolts, I saw nothing to point to his "Star" potential.

If anything he looked nervous and not ready to lead a team. Not that there's anything wrong with that he is only a rookie, but so is Henson.

We need to keep Henson and groom him as the future of this franchise until he proves otherwise.

Its amazing to me how many people are willing to throw him to the curb, b/c he wasnt a star in year one. The guy has obvious physical skills, he is a 2 sport athlete after all.

Im all for getting an experienced QB in here for a year or 2....ie Drew Bledsoe or Brad Johnson.

When Henson is ready he will be a great QB for us. We need to address way to many other area's in the draft and FA.

As of right now a playmaking WR should be top priority in the draft and then either a DT/LB.

FA can fill holes in the secondary and possibly get us a star D-lineman.


unorthadox throwing motion??? Henson does too and how long are the Cowboys going to groom Henson?..how long? It's all a big bluff from Parcells and Jerry, they are just trying to lead people away from what they are really trying to acomplish and it's not Henson.
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boondocksaint14


Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 417
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:01 am    Post subject: How Reply with quote

How Long? You act like we've been grooming him for 3 years now and that its about time he gets thrown in.

HE's been here for one year. What if Rivers is a bust, what then? Go grab the next big thing, all the while neglect other area's?

Rivers doesn't impress me at all. He was never at top prospect until after the Senior Bowl, that is very scary. Just like Alex Smith is very scary in this draft. You never want to get the one-hit wonders.

There is nothing wrong with getting a seasoned QB in here, and waiting one more year for Henson to be ready. If he still isnt than we can look to the draft.

Its way, way, way to early to go looking for another young QB now and just give up on Henson after one season. Any GM in the league that does that should be fired.

We need these draft picks to fill other postions with star players. WR/LB/DT/DE/LT/S/CB all need to be addressed before QB. A depth chart of Brad Johnson/Drew Henson/Tony Romo would be just fine with me next year.
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Gnrl Manchester


Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 207
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's interesting how people will talk about the big arm that Henson has as if Rivers can only throw the ball five feet. Rivers was considered a late first round to second round pick before the Senior Bowl, there was Heisman hype at the beginning of the year. As long as he's not throwing the ball sidearmed, like David Carr has a tendency to do when he's on the run, I don't care how "unorthodox" Rivers throwing motion is. Byron Leftwich can't play for crap unless he's in a shotgun formation and all anyone does is talk about what a great QB he is. Rivers was one of the most accurate college QB's EVER. Period. He started 51 straight games. Saying he's not going to be as good as Henson, who only started 9 games in college, then left early to play baseball is as ridiculous. And Rivers played in half of the last game of the Chargers season, so stop saying he hasn't thrown an NFL pass yet.

That being said, it IS too early to give up on Henson. We have more pressing needs than quarterback right now. We need BOTH of those first round picks. Until we've seen Henson play at least half a season, we can't label him a bust. But stop saying that Rivers couldn't carry Henson's jock, because you are flat out WRONG.
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boondocksaint14


Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 417
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:20 am    Post subject: Please Reply with quote

Please dont put words into my mouth.

I said Henson has a better arm, not Rivers that has a bad arm(where you get the 5 feet comment is interesting). I said Henson was a better prospect coming out of college, not that he would be better right now. Both of my statements are true, neither are knocks on Rivers, just statements of fact.

When did I say he hasnt thrown an NFL pass? I talked about his pre-season and also mentioned that he played at the end of the year. Again not very impressive, but he's only a rookie.

Rivers cant carry Henson's jock, at this point Im hoping your talking about other people's posts before mine, b/c that would be flat stretching my statements to an extreme.

I think Rivers is a good prospect.

I dont think he has any Star quality to him, thats my point.
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CTCowboysFan


Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 2586
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if we get Rivers it doesn't mean we can't improve in other areas we will still have five picks and possibly six if we trade for a third. Look at my updated possible off-season I think that explains that we will still have plenty of money and picks to improve other positions.
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AmericasTeam


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 1212
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, Rivers' throwing motion is fine. Yes he throws the ball sidearmed, but the release of the ball is so high that he wouldnt have to alter the way he throws the ball like David Carr had to when he came into the league.

Overall i think he has just as good, if not better chance to be a better QB than Henson does. But thats just my opinion.
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Gnrl Manchester


Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 207
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I apologize, boondock. My comments were not directed solely at you but at many of the posts I had seen on this thread.

The "five foot" comment was due to the fact that you as well as a few others are approaching the debate by only stating the arm strength of Henson, as if you were implying Rivers can "only throw the ball five feet." Not putting words in your mouth.

Read in the posts above about not having thrown an NFL pass. Two different people brought it up.

The jock comment was more for shock value than anything. I merely wanted to point out that people talk about Rivers as if HE were a bust when he saw almost as much playing time as Henson this year.

You might notice that I don't feel we should try to acquire Rivers, I just thought he could use some defense.
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SilverStar


Most Valuable Poster (1st Ballot)
Joined: 28 Nov 2004
Posts: 2397
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put VERY simply, we should not TRADE for Philip Rivers. Henson has alot of upside and has only really been playing football again for less than a year. Henson is still only 24 and quarterbacks can be very productive into their mid thirties. I think we should at least give the guy another 2 years to develop into an elite QB and if after that time he doesn't look like the answer, get someone else. As stated before our most pressing needs at this time are DE,DT,LB, FS,CB. With our 2 first rounders we can acquire a DE and a DT as well as trading down from 11 to receive a 2nd rounder. In the second round we should be able to pick up a FS or a CB and we should be able to address LB in FA. Kicker despite some peoples opinions IS a problem, and if we play our cards correctly we should be able to pick up Nugent. A second RB is also needed and should be available in the lower 4-6 rounds due to the depth of this years RB class. As i stated earlier, we should be able to get a top 5 cb in the second round(high second that is)because TO MANY mock drafts don't take into account that teams choose the BPA instead of a need because they don't like to waste 1st round picks. Also, the depth of the secondary is very deep in this draft as well. To get back to the original topic, Henson that is, he is no more of a risk than Philip Rivers. The difference between the two from my perspective is that we have only invested a 3rd rounder in Henson(who would have been a top 5 pick) where as we would have to invest a 1st rounder in Rivers. There was a very good article i read recently on the patriots home page regarding Parcells good track record in drafting players. Many people believe it has nothing to do with him drafting different players than other coaches, rather it has to do with his ability to coach and develop his picks better than other coaches. That alone should stop the talk about Henson, because Parcells knows how to develop players(much the same as his pupil Belichik). I for one firmly believe that Parcells did not play Henson this year because he didn't want the guy to lose confidence, because as of right now Henson is very confident(and has been wanting to start all year). If Henson played badly, his cockiness might be lost and it would be much better served if he played cocky and could back it up.
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Gnrl Manchester


Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 207
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm very on board with the things you have to say about Henson. Was it you who had posted the link to that article on the Pats site you were refering to? If so, good article.
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SilverStar


Most Valuable Poster (1st Ballot)
Joined: 28 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the link, someone posted it before but i can't remember who:

http://www.patsfans.com/12th/2003/story/display_story.php?story_id=5393
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Ant


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 269
Location: The Sunny side of the Moon
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rivers did play this season, the last regular season game and he went 5 for 8 33 yards and a 27 yard touchdown pass.
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Dragon00420


Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 60
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:10 pm    Post subject: The Rivers effect Reply with quote

IMO Cowboys should not go after Rivers, here is why. We have way to many needs at other positions to trade away a 1st round pick. If you break this team down, we need a DT, DE, RT, WR, CB, FS, QB, LB and then more depth at the positons we are solid at.

As long as Vinny comes back (yes I was booing him this season for Drew) he can manage a game with tallent around him. He won't be a superstar Manning, but he can get the job done. So you skip on Rivers go get yourself some much needed help and build your team that way. We know the Tunna doesn't like green QB's and I'm sure he would consider Rivers a greeny.

However if Vinny doesn't come back to play then I think you would take a shot and trade our 20th (NOT The 11th) pick from the Bills to acuire Rivers, and have Rivers, Romo, and Henson battle it out in training camp with the Winner starting every game.

What doe you guys think!!
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boondocksaint14


Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 417
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:14 pm    Post subject: Still Reply with quote

And what if Henson beats Rivers out? You just blew a money pick on a bench guy with a huge contract(even if we dont have to pay his signing bonus, the bast is still high.)

We have to wait at a minimum one more year before we look at another young QB.
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boondocksaint14


Joined: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 417
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:16 pm    Post subject: The Reply with quote

The Base salary not the BAST salary, man I cant spell.
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