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Does anyone else have a problem with our power hierarchy?
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Cowherkids


Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 235
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:46 am    Post subject: Re: Does anyone else have a problem with our power hierarchy Reply with quote

Cutwolf wrote:
Cowherkids wrote:
Cutwolf wrote:
relatively average coach (like Cowher),




if cowher was just average then what does a good coach look like?


Cowher was a wonderful regular season coach.

A failure of a postseason/big game coach (1 year exception).

Belichick is a good coach.


both coaches are HOFers. not just average or good, and the one big differnecewas each teams qb.
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Cutwolf


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 1648
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And if I was a betting man I'd bet that Tom Brady was Belichick's pick, but I have no way to prove it.

Which goes back to my point in this thread...
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 63655
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, if it isnt broke, dont fix it. They have fielded a competitive team for so long, and ulitmately, its going to depend on the talent on the sidelines and how Tomlin uses that talent.

I dont think Colbert should have MORE power though. He isnt the coach and ultimately, thats who the pressure is on, so he should have the final say of what players they bring it. Its his system, not Colbert's. I like Colbert and he knows more about the Steelers, but Tomlin knows more about football, and he should have the majority of the say when it comes right down to it.
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spush


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cutwolf wrote:
And if I was a betting man I'd bet that Tom Brady was Belichick's pick, but I have no way to prove it.

Which goes back to my point in this thread...


Sorry, but this is absurd. Head Coach and GM are both 120 hours a week jobs in the NFL. To ask someone without several years of experience to even attempt to take a role in both let alone total ownership isnt good business. Even Holmgren relinquished his duties as GM b/c it was too much. GM's are just that because they're strong suit is talent evaluation. They work closely with coaches on what kind of players are needed to man schemes. Behind every great coach who has had success is a great GM. Look how the Steelers improved after Donahoe left and Colbert stepped in.

Gruden/Dungy..........Rich Mckay
Belicheck.................Scott Pioli
Schottenheimer........AJ Smith
Billick......................Ozzie Newsome
ETC

This reinforces the fact that great teams are not built by head coaches, it helps, but it starts with the front office. An ownership team that knows how to delegate responsibility and bring the right people in to do so. Why do you think the same teams are horrible perennially despite the coaches they bring in? Cards, Browns, Lions....

It would be similar to asking Police Officers to also be firefighters without hiring extra help. There isnt enough time in the day to do the job effectively not to mention its not what your training is specialized in.
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jebrick


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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Location: Indianapolis
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coach and GM must work together. Look at NE. Belichick and Scott Pioli have a system that mostly works. Belichick has to be able to tell Pioli what kind of player he wants then Pioli has to be able to find them. They are not perfect but it works.

Unlike the Bengals where Mike Brown would read the newspaper to figure out who to draft ( Pre-Lewis)
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StillersFury


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 3965
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hae no problems with the Power structure.

Rooney
Colbert
Whaley
Tomlin

Way it is...Way it should be.

Noll did a nice job.

Art Jr and Bill Nunn basically did all the leg work and had a big say on who was picked
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SteelProven


Joined: 20 Apr 2005
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Location: Ramstein, Germany
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cutwolf, I see what your saying, but as of right now Tomlin isn't ready to assume that role yet. Tomlin needs to focus on fielding a competitive team and let Colbert worry about the business side. Tomlin will eventually work his way into make the majority decisions. IMO
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Cutwolf


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
Cutwolf, I see what your saying, but as of right now Tomlin isn't ready to assume that role yet. Tomlin needs to focus on fielding a competitive team and let Colbert worry about the business side. Tomlin will eventually work his way into make the majority decisions. IMO



Yet if Tomlin and Colbert are on different pages with regards to who they need, why should the businessman who isn't up close and personal and on the field with his players have the final say over the guy who is with them day in and day out and knows what they're capable of?

Like I said, the ideal situation would be to let Colbert do is thing, but if it comes down to Tomlin being 100% sure we need a DE in the 1st round and Colbert being 100% sure we need a WR in the 1st round, why should Colbert make the final decision when Tomlin is going to be the one who suffers the consequences if the team he fields fails?
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spush


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cutwolf wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
Cutwolf, I see what your saying, but as of right now Tomlin isn't ready to assume that role yet. Tomlin needs to focus on fielding a competitive team and let Colbert worry about the business side. Tomlin will eventually work his way into make the majority decisions. IMO



Yet if Tomlin and Colbert are on different pages with regards to who they need, why should the businessman who isn't up close and personal and on the field with his players have the final say over the guy who is with them day in and day out and knows what they're capable of?

Like I said, the ideal situation would be to let Colbert do is thing, but if it comes down to Tomlin being 100% sure we need a DE in the 1st round and Colbert being 100% sure we need a WR in the 1st round, why should Colbert make the final decision when Tomlin is going to be the one who suffers the consequences if the team he fields fails?


Your getting back into the value vs. need debate. I know you've stated you dont 100% agree with the philosophy, but thats how it is. Coaches dont go into drafts worried about as much about signing bonuses and contract situations. GM's have to. For instance, if you know there is no way after this year to keep both Marvel Smith and Starks, OT becomes just as high of priority as OLB/DE. It has to. Most teams take the mindset that we're drafting for 2-3 years down the road.
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StillersFury


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 3965
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
why should the businessman who isn't up close and personal and on the field with his players have the final say over the guy who is with them day in and day out and knows what they're capable of?


Come on..You knew this BS wasnt going to float.

Tomlin is at the bottom of the food chain where he should be...He will stay there for at least 2 years.
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6ondaway


Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 160
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

head coach 49%
GM 49%
Owner 2%

I believe we did not hire whiz or grimm becuase our team needed new blood. That is why we hire a relatively unknown HC. To bring in new blood he needs to draft players to play the way he wants them to. I agree with the 120 hour per week remark, and those hours are moving fast right now for a new HC.

I believe that tomlin will be allowed to say what players he wants, and that will be given lots of thoght by colbert. But colbert will have the last say when it comes to drafting a player this year. Next year I think tomlin will know more about the team and its needs.

If tomlin and colbert are at a stale mate, i think then the owner would come in.

oh and i am a big tomlin fan, i think players will love him, and i know he has a good football mind becuase the rooneys hired him.

just a question---how much input on hiring Tomlin did Colbert have??

i would say he had a good amount of input and thereofre he will give the guy a lot of respect this weekend.
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Cutwolf


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 1648
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

6ondaway wrote:
head coach 49%
GM 49%
Owner 2%

I believe we did not hire whiz or grimm becuase our team needed new blood. That is why we hire a relatively unknown HC. To bring in new blood he needs to draft players to play the way he wants them to. I agree with the 120 hour per week remark, and those hours are moving fast right now for a new HC.

I believe that tomlin will be allowed to say what players he wants, and that will be given lots of thoght by colbert. But colbert will have the last say when it comes to drafting a player this year. Next year I think tomlin will know more about the team and its needs.

If tomlin and colbert are at a stale mate, i think then the owner would come in.

oh and i am a big tomlin fan, i think players will love him, and i know he has a good football mind becuase the rooneys hired him.

just a question---how much input on hiring Tomlin did Colbert have??

i would say he had a good amount of input and thereofre he will give the guy a lot of respect this weekend.



Exactly how I feel it should work.

I do not feel Colbert should have absolute veto power over Tomlin.
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