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Dook


Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 2669
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: HEY Reply with quote

Cutwolf wrote:
STELRFAN wrote:
Cutwolf wrote:
We're rebuilding. I trade Faneca now rather than delay the inevitable.


We are not rebuilding whats with you man? theyre not going to trade him theyre going o have one or two rookie lineman and his experience would be invaluable to them unless some team blows them away its not happening



Perhaps we're not rebuilding, but we should be. We're delaying the inevitable. We are overpaying for underachievers. We have free agency hell coming up with little to no cap room. We have a new coach, a young QB, young WRs, and a young RB.

It is time to trim the fat. Clean up some cap space, cut some dead weight, cut some vets who may be good players but are eating up huge chunks of money, and rebuild. We need an infusion of youth in our LB corp and infusion of skill on our o-line.

The more you delay these things, the worse it hurts when it catches up. That is what happened to the 49ers and the Raiders.

I'd much rather rebuild for the next 2 or 3 years and have $20 million in cap space to play with in a few years (like the Patriots had this offseason although they have managed their team far better than us) and be able to make 5 or 6 good Super Bowl runs during the prime of our stars' creers, than delay the inevitable and face cap hell during their primes.

That might mean losing Faneca. It might mean losing Haggans. We already lost Porter. It might even mean losing Polamalu (although he will be resigned). The fact of the matter is our team is a ticking time bomb right now. Free agency and the salary cap is going to explode, and I'd rather us blow it up ourselves and retool to make runs during Ben's prime than have it catch us by surprise and waste our franchise QB.


Too much drama.

You'd rather cut good starters now just to gain salary cap room in 2 or 3 years so we can then go crazy in free agency to make a super bowl run?

Also, cutting people doesn't save you as much as you think. You still have the cap hit from their signing bonus to pay each year. You lose value by doing that.

The Steelers know what they are doing. We're in the thick of it year after year. So what our cap space is low, you don't get trophies for having the most cap space.

We're not going to pass on 2 or 3 years of Ben's prime (And Polo's, Holmes, Miller's, Parker's, Anthony Smith's, McFadden's prime also) to finally take a shot at a super bowl down the road.
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Cutwolf


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 1648
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We're not going to pass on 2 or 3 years of Ben's prime (And Polo's, Holmes, Miller's, Parker's, Anthony Smith's, McFadden's prime also) to finally take a shot at a super bowl down the road.


Then we're going to pay for it for longer.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 63655
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I dont think its going to happen, I would love to trade him. If you are just thinking in terms of this coming season, that may sould like a bad idea, but Faneca obviously isnt very happy and will most likely be gone next year anyway. At least we could get something for him unlike with Porter.

I wont really say we are rebuidling, its more like a restructuring. Tomlin has to make the team the way he feels comfortable with. If that means getting rid of some of the more poplular players, so be it. That OLine obviously needs an overhaul or Ben wont be around long enough to become the great QB many of us believe he can be. The entire OLine struggled last year, including Faneca. If anything on our team is rebuilding, its our OLine and front 7. Id say most of the team is set up pretty decent.
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Cutwolf


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 1648
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If anything on our team is rebuilding, its our OLine and front 7.


Arguably the two most important areas of a team.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 63655
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cutwolf wrote:
Quote:
If anything on our team is rebuilding, its our OLine and front 7.


Arguably the two most important areas of a team.


No argument there.
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treat88


Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 6722
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teams know the position the Steelers are in with Faneca.

We will never receive reasonable value for him in a trade. Why would a team willing to sign him to the type of contract he will command also want to include draft picks to do that when they can simply wait until he hits the FA market?
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spush


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 13981
Location: On top of the world
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread wins an Oscar for dramatic over actors of the year. Congralations.

There is a huge difference between rebuilding and retooling. This time of year is no fun for the draftniks who team have little cap money. They signed Adalius Thomas and those guys got Steinbach, and we need 7 first round draft pick or we'll never win.

WHO CARES. With Adalius Thomas and with Eric Steinbach we're still more talented than those two teams combined.

So why dont we get rid of everyone who makes more than league min so we can pick from leftovers in FA.

No thank you, I'd rather take what we already got. We have similar cap money to what we have every other year.
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SteelSedition


Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 2584
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When it comes to Faneca these are my thoughts:

Faneca is 30 years old and most likely has 2-3 good years left (its questionable if there are any great years left based upon his play last year). So the questions as to whether or not we should try to move Faneca are: first, are we a contender this upcoming year? and second, are we going to be able to afford to resign him at what his true value is (note:guards receiving gigantic contracts who aren't nearly as good as Faneca).

Chances of us winning a SB this upcoming year aren't good (as much as I hate to admit it). The Steelers have won five super bowls over the years, and I don't believe our team is nearly as good as many of our teams of the past that have failed to do so. This means Faneca's presence on the O-line next year is not vital, especially if he cannot be resigned. Rather than keeping Faneca for one more year in which we most likely will have an above-average season, perhaps low seed into the playoffs, I would rather move him if we can.

Scenario: trade Faneca to the Cards for their second round pick. Grimm loves Faneca, Whis knows what he's capable of, and their O-line is atrocious. Faneca would automatically upgrade their line immediately, and would help create lanes for Edge to run through.

With the Cards' #2 pick I say we select Blalock/Sears/Grubbs--that is, whichever guard is left that the Steelers have rated the highest. The player could immediately be plugged in at LG, and by the time we are a contender for the Super Bowl (most likely 2 yrs I'd say) they would be entering their prime whereas Faneca would be very, very close to the end of his career.

The Steelers are a team with a lot of young talent (Ben, FWP, Troy, Holmes, etc) but also they also have a lot of aging veterans as well (Farrior, Faneca, Ward). When taking into consideration the vets we have already lost since our last SB title, mainly JB and Porter (he's about done anyhow!) I don't think we have the players to win a Super Bowl.

Resigning Troy is a must, as he is part of our younger corps of studs. Faneca probably won't be resigned, and as unfortunate as it is, I think we should move him if we can in order to build for the future.

The Steelers are not in a rebuilding mode. When I hear rebuilding I think complete reconstruction. We already have our cornerstones-- young franchise quarterback, pro-bowl RB, good young secondary (Ike's going to bounce back this year), and a very solid D-line. The Steelers are only a few key players away from being a legit contender, and by the time we acquire them and they are entering their playing primes, Faneca will be well past his.

Trade Faneca, pick up a guard. Grab a pass rushing OLB in rd 1, an inside linebacker later, and fill in our other needs in accordance to how the draft breaks down. If I have time I will be posting a mock draft of my own sometime in the future so look for it.
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Cutwolf


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 1648
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spush wrote:
This thread wins an Oscar for dramatic over actors of the year. Congralations.

There is a huge difference between rebuilding and retooling. This time of year is no fun for the draftniks who team have little cap money. They signed Adalius Thomas and those guys got Steinbach, and we need 7 first round draft pick or we'll never win.

WHO CARES. With Adalius Thomas and with Eric Steinbach we're still more talented than those two teams combined.

So why dont we get rid of everyone who makes more than league min so we can pick from leftovers in FA.

No thank you, I'd rather take what we already got. We have similar cap money to what we have every other year.




You're saying we're more talented than the Patriots?

Pardon me while I search for my homer glasses. Perhaps I can see it then.

I bleed black and gold. I would never root for another team. However, I see reality.

The Steelers have barely any cap room, we're overpaying for mediocre talent (Foote, Okobi, Wilson), underperforming talent (Faneca, Polamalu, Ike), and aging talent (Farrior).

Our LB corp needs a COMPLETE overhaul.

Faneca will be gone next year. Mahan is a stop gap, nothing more. Simmons wears roller skates.

So we're looking for 3 new starting o-linemen.

I fully expect Ike and Polamalu to pick up their play, but the fact is the money we dished out was not justified last year. We overachieved in that Super Bowl run, and while it doesn't cheapen it, I think you have to agree that 9 times out of 10 we don't win 8 in a row to win the Super Bowl.

We are rebuilding. Not a major overhaul, but we shouldn't be expecting much more than 6-10 - 9-7 for the next few seasons. The only glimmer of hope is our explosive (on paper) offense. If Ben returns to form, we could be like the Greatest Show on Turf Rams. However, that hinges on our o-line being able to somehow hold it together for a full season.
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Neumatic


Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 8363
Location: Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im sure Faneca has wanted more money since he seen the deal Steve Hutch. signed...i say keep him untill he is just pass his prime and let a team like Arizona over-pay for him
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SteelSedition


Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 2584
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we're going to go in the neighborhood of 11-5 next year, give or take a game. Ben should return to form, as should Ike. Santonio Holmes playing fulltime is a huge upgrade over Wilson or Nate, and Anthony Smith is a big upgrade over Ryan Clark. With that said, assuming our Offensive line can play adequate, we should be alright. I think many of you forget that our 8-8 season very easily could have been 10-6 or better when looking back at games like the Falcons, Bengals, and Raiders. Assuming we can draft an OLB that can rush the passer, there's no reason why we shouldn't be expecting to make the playoffs, especially considering how much easier our schedule is this year.
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spush


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 13981
Location: On top of the world
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cutwolf wrote:
spush wrote:
This thread wins an Oscar for dramatic over actors of the year. Congralations.

There is a huge difference between rebuilding and retooling. This time of year is no fun for the draftniks who team have little cap money. They signed Adalius Thomas and those guys got Steinbach, and we need 7 first round draft pick or we'll never win.

WHO CARES. With Adalius Thomas and with Eric Steinbach we're still more talented than those two teams combined.

So why dont we get rid of everyone who makes more than league min so we can pick from leftovers in FA.

No thank you, I'd rather take what we already got. We have similar cap money to what we have every other year.




You're saying we're more talented than the Patriots?

Pardon me while I search for my homer glasses. Perhaps I can see it then.

I bleed black and gold. I would never root for another team. However, I see reality.

The Steelers have barely any cap room, we're overpaying for mediocre talent (Foote, Okobi, Wilson), underperforming talent (Faneca, Polamalu, Ike), and aging talent (Farrior).

Our LB corp needs a COMPLETE overhaul.

Faneca will be gone next year. Mahan is a stop gap, nothing more. Simmons wears roller skates.

So we're looking for 3 new starting o-linemen.

I fully expect Ike and Polamalu to pick up their play, but the fact is the money we dished out was not justified last year. We overachieved in that Super Bowl run, and while it doesn't cheapen it, I think you have to agree that 9 times out of 10 we don't win 8 in a row to win the Super Bowl.

We are rebuilding. Not a major overhaul, but we shouldn't be expecting much more than 6-10 - 9-7 for the next few seasons. The only glimmer of hope is our explosive (on paper) offense. If Ben returns to form, we could be like the Greatest Show on Turf Rams. However, that hinges on our o-line being able to somehow hold it together for a full season.


Again, congratulations, you have an opinion, and OPINION is what it is. My opinion is we are a better team than the PATS. Absolutely. I dont believe, when this team is clicking, anyone can match them on the field. Sure, you can show me how it looks on paper, but thats why they play the game. Its not about trading up, spending in FA, or throwing in the towel. Its about team chemistry, focus, determination, and most importantly heart. You can cry bloody murder about who runs to that orange cone faster, but when it comes down to it, its about heart. Except for last season's enigma, this team does ALL of these as well or better than any team in football. We could've/should've easily won 13 games last year as easily as we could've lost 13.

Should've beat Cincy/OAK/ATL
Could've beat SD/DEN

The '05 team would have won all 5 games with nearly the same roster. There is your 13-3 record. Baltimore is the only two games we actually got beat.
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Cutwolf


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Should've beat Cincy/OAK/ATL
Could've beat SD/DEN


Shoulda coulda woulda but didn't.

Tell me: How many times since 2002 have we beaten the Pats?

How many times in the playoffs?
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spush


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 13981
Location: On top of the world
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cutwolf wrote:
Quote:
Should've beat Cincy/OAK/ATL
Could've beat SD/DEN


Shoulda coulda woulda but didn't.

Tell me: How many times since 2002 have we beaten the Pats?

How many times in the playoffs?


Not a whole lot, but their roster has changed as much as anyones. I didnt see them in the superbowl last year, so their season was a wash just like 31 other teams. While AD is a baller, how is Stallwort/Washington/Welker an upgrade over anything. Middle of the road guys.
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6ondaway


Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 160
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cutwolf wrote:
Quote:
Should've beat Cincy/OAK/ATL
Could've beat SD/DEN


Shoulda coulda woulda but didn't.

Tell me: How many times since 2002 have we beaten the Pats?

How many times in the playoffs?



but then you post a thread "i wish steelers would have been 4-12"

cutwolf the more i read your threads the less i respect your opinion.
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