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Move up in rd 2 for Ben Grubbs?
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spush


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 13981
Location: On top of the world
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cutwolf wrote:
Let's just draft an o-lineman with every pick.

It's not like we're trying to develop Essex, Colon, Kemoeatu, Okobi, Philip, and just signed Mahan or anything.

I want a team of at least 47 O-linemen. Just incase, you know?


As much as it pains me to say it he's right, we have O line depth and noone knows if Faneca's leaving or not. Colon/Kemo both have real potential. Kemo was 1st team All American as a senior. His first start was KC game and we routed them and he played perfectly. As for Grubbs, he's great, but there are and average of 4 OG's drafted on day 1, so if the FO feels its a need, depth will be there later on.

On day one I strongly feel we need to address the front 7 twice, and WR once, in no particular order. for instance....

1. Woodley/Spencer/Johnson/Carricker
2. Gonzalez/Smith/Davis/Rice/Hopefully Bowe
3. depending on 1st pick
If Carricker: Bradley/Moses
or
Bazuin/McDonald/Mebane/Silar

At least two of these players will be there at each pick. I also want a blocking TE somewhere around the 5th round.
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SteelProven


Joined: 20 Apr 2005
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Location: Ramstein, Germany
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grubbs to me is nothing more than a younger K. Simmons it may be a coincidence that there negatives are eerily similar. But I don't think it is I think they're the same type of player.

K. Simmons
Negatives: Lacks the lateral agility to get out on the edge to handle the speed rushers…Does not always finish his blocks (falls off them)…Good incline blocker, but works better in the short area rather than moving into space…Has good pass protection promise, but can be exposed by the inside charge…Has a bilateral ankle condition that needs further evaluation (operated on in 1999, but still bothered by it)…Gets a little too high in his stance when protecting vs. the pass, which results in defenders being able to walk him back.

B. Grubbs
Negatives: He will sometimes fall off blocks late when he fails to bend at the knees, but has the body control to recover … When he fails to sink his hips, Grubbs will overextend a bit, but he is quick to recoil and get back on his assignment … When he gets too narrow in his stance, he will lose his base at the X's … He does have some inconsistency finishing blocks in the past, but Grubbs shows great pop on contact and is learning to keep his base wider in order to prevent the defender from shedding … When he gets too high in his stance, he can be walked back.
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Dook


Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 2669
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spush wrote:
Cutwolf wrote:
Let's just draft an o-lineman with every pick.

It's not like we're trying to develop Essex, Colon, Kemoeatu, Okobi, Philip, and just signed Mahan or anything.

I want a team of at least 47 O-linemen. Just incase, you know?


As much as it pains me to say it he's right, we have O line depth and noone knows if Faneca's leaving or not. Colon/Kemo both have real potential. Kemo was 1st team All American as a senior. His first start was KC game and we routed them and he played perfectly. As for Grubbs, he's great, but there are and average of 4 OG's drafted on day 1, so if the FO feels its a need, depth will be there later on.

On day one I strongly feel we need to address the front 7 twice, and WR once, in no particular order. for instance....

1. Woodley/Spencer/Johnson/Carricker
2. Gonzalez/Smith/Davis/Rice/Hopefully Bowe
3. depending on 1st pick
If Carricker: Bradley/Moses
or
Bazuin/McDonald/Mebane/Silar

At least two of these players will be there at each pick. I also want a blocking TE somewhere around the 5th round.


He's not right. He's not even close.

We have OL depth season? Hehe, yeah, this up coming season our depth is okay for one or two games if a starter is injured but you don't count on using all of your depth as starters for the '08 season.

That's just insane.

Our OL was very average last year and now you want us to not take an OL in the draft this year meaning we'd have to start three second stringers and draft three OL replacements next years draft?
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treat88


Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 6722
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grubbs is probably exactly the intelligent pick in the 2nd if we went DE or OLB in 1.

Depends on who is available, but consistently successful franchises invest Day 1 picks on the OL annually.

I'd be happy to move our 4th to go up and get him.
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bigben07MVP


Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 10291
Location: Tallahassee, FL
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
Cutwolf wrote:
BigBen7 wrote:
Cutwolf wrote:
Faneca is leaving NEXT year, not this year.


Really, has he told you this?


Sorry, let me rephrase.


Alan Faneca, the 1998 1st round pick out of LSU, is a Free Agent next year. A free agent is described by Wikipedia as

Quote:
Players that have played 5 or more full seasons in the league, and whose contract has expired, are considered "Unrestricted Free Agents"(see below) and have unlimited rights to negotiate with any club. Teams may name a single player in any given year as a "Franchise Player"(see below), which eliminates much of that players negotiation rights. This is a limited right of the team, however, and affects only a small handful of players each year.


When a player in the NFL (National Football League) reaches Free Agency, there is the potential that he might leave.

I am sincerely sorry that I misspoke when I said Faneca is leaving next year. It was clearly an error in judgment.

What I meant to say is that Faneca will likely leave next year as the Pittsburgh Steelers (an NFL franchise) will likely be able to retain one of the two major free agents: Troy Polamalu (the samoan) or Alan Faneca.

Since Polamalu is younger and has many more years left in him, Alan Faneca will likely be the odd man out.

I hope you can forgive me for my poor phrasing. If there is anything else I can do for you, BigBen7, don't hesitate to ask. I am so sorry once again.

Thanks for your understanding,
Cutwolf


Cutwolf, stop being an a$$.

I was just about to say that but refrained for fear of being banned. He has shown he is obnoxious in numerous threads.
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spush


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 13981
Location: On top of the world
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

treat88 wrote:
Grubbs is probably exactly the intelligent pick in the 2nd if we went DE or OLB in 1.

Depends on who is available, but consistently successful franchises invest Day 1 picks on the OL annually.

I'd be happy to move our 4th to go up and get him.


Again, an average of 4 OG's are drafted on day one, and even less at the C position. Depth is available in round 2. And depth is what we need, not an immediate starter. You want to give up a fourth for him when guys like Ramirez/Yanda/Alleman will be there in the 5th probably.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/10021566
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treat88


Joined: 03 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spush wrote:
treat88 wrote:
Grubbs is probably exactly the intelligent pick in the 2nd if we went DE or OLB in 1.

Depends on who is available, but consistently successful franchises invest Day 1 picks on the OL annually.

I'd be happy to move our 4th to go up and get him.


Again, an average of 4 OG's are drafted on day one, and even less at the C position. Depth is available in round 2. And depth is what we need, not an immediate starter. You want to give up a fourth for him when guys like Ramirez/Yanda/Alleman will be there in the 5th probably.


You have a real valid point. My O-line recognition is name/reading only, so I'd have to defer to your expertise on this one.

Based on that reading, I have Grubbs significantly above those guys right now, but that's me.

If they grade out about the same to the FO then obviously keep the 4th.
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NYSteelers


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 32
Location: NYC
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cutwolf wrote:
Let's just draft an o-lineman with every pick.

It's not like we're trying to develop Essex, Colon, Kemoeatu, Okobi, Philip, and just signed Mahan or anything.

I want a team of at least 47 O-linemen. Just incase, you know?


This is the second time today you've been a real jerk to me, let alone all the other people you put down. I have a feeling your right about as often as anyone else on these boards, and wrong just as frequently. You deal in absolutes, which is kind of funny. Those absolutes you "know" for certain will pan out to be about 50/50 true, false, like most people here.

Now back to your snide comment. I made a point of stating that a quality lineman who won't need a few years to grow, could make it easier for us to let Faneca go instead of over paying for an aging player

Anyway, to jump to such an absurd degree with your responses makes you seem just plain mean, much like a spoiled 14 year old. now since you also make many comments full of merit, im guessing you just like to be a D@#$. Stop, now. Thanks


Last edited by NYSteelers on Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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NYSteelers


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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Location: NYC
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

treat88 wrote:
Grubbs is probably exactly the intelligent pick in the 2nd if we went DE or OLB in 1.

Depends on who is available, but consistently successful franchises invest Day 1 picks on the OL annually.

I'd be happy to move our 4th to go up and get him.


Wow, thanks Treat, some one read my WHOLE post!

I would be a lot happier if we only had to give up our 5th for him. . . not sure how many slots that equates to.

I've heard him compared much more favorably to a Faneca type guard most recently. Of course, you can read 8 different "scoops" and get 8 totally different reads on a player, so who knows.
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spush


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

treat88 wrote:
spush wrote:
treat88 wrote:
Grubbs is probably exactly the intelligent pick in the 2nd if we went DE or OLB in 1.

Depends on who is available, but consistently successful franchises invest Day 1 picks on the OL annually.

I'd be happy to move our 4th to go up and get him.


Again, an average of 4 OG's are drafted on day one, and even less at the C position. Depth is available in round 2. And depth is what we need, not an immediate starter. You want to give up a fourth for him when guys like Ramirez/Yanda/Alleman will be there in the 5th probably.


You have a real valid point. My O-line recognition is name/reading only, so I'd have to defer to your expertise on this one.

Based on that reading, I have Grubbs significantly above those guys right now, but that's me.

If they grade out about the same to the FO then obviously keep the 4th.


I think Grubbs could be great.. Along with Blalock and/or Sears. One of them could even possibly be a late first rounder. But we need pass rushers on day one. I'd equate it to if your car has a tank full of gas and low on oil, you dont put more gas in it. You gas it up after you drove to get the oil. Address your immediate needs first. Alot has to do with how the draft pans out, but we need LB's. And we all know how much of a premium is put on the D line in the NFL, so expect it to be addressed on day 1. As well as one pick on offense. It may be OG, but my gut feeling says WR is stacked this year and we'll grab one. Maybe someone like Ryan Kalil falls to 2:15, he'd get serious consideraton. Leaves Mahan/Simmons for OG depth.
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RangerD


Joined: 24 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This whole debate basically boils down to whether you think Kemo or Essex or Colon could eventually start, but Rian Wallace, James Harrison or Arnold Harrison can't......OR vice versa, you think Wallace, Harrison, etc are good enough, but Kemo, Colon, Essex aren't....
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spush


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RangerD wrote:
This whole debate basically boils down to whether you think Kemo or Essex or Colon could eventually start, but Rian Wallace, James Harrison or Arnold Harrison can't......OR vice versa, you think Wallace, Harrison, etc are good enough, but Kemo, Colon, Essex aren't....


Add a little "draft value" into the equation and your pretty much dead nuts
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StillersFury


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Auburn - Offensive lineman Ben Grubbs opened some eyes with a great showing. After a poor performance during the combine, mainly due to an illness, Grubbs was much improved during Auburn's Pro Day. He knocked two-tenths of a second off his 40 and completed 35 reps in the 225-pound bench press.


From this web site. I dont think I have to link that right?

There is no comparision between Grubbs and Simmons.

I love Oline play....Its my thing. Simmons maybe the worst starting guard since the 60's for the Steelers.

This includes....

Brian Blakenschip
Rich Tylski
Anthony Brown
Etc
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Ghozt812


Joined: 02 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like grubbs, but if the steelers trade up, they would go for Ryan Kalil. the steelers dont need any guards at the moment. But in case you didnt get the memo, we dont have a Center. Kalil fits perfectly into our offensive scheme IMO. If we can trade faneca for a 2nd round pick, i say we get both grubbs and kalil. if not, then oh well! i have no problem with having essex or colon or kemoeatu starting by 08 or 09. I see potential in all of them, especially essex.
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NYSteelers


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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Location: NYC
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ghozt812 wrote:
I like grubbs, but if the steelers trade up, they would go for Ryan Kalil. the steelers dont need any guards at the moment. But in case you didnt get the memo, we dont have a Center. Kalil fits perfectly into our offensive scheme IMO. If we can trade faneca for a 2nd round pick, i say we get both grubbs and kalil. if not, then oh well! i have no problem with having essex or colon or kemoeatu starting by 08 or 09. I see potential in all of them, especially essex.


We won't go for Ryan Kalil. He doesn't fit in our scheme at all. He's ideal for Denver's Offense. Not ours. He's no Mangold.
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