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fly eagles fly


Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Killdawabbit had a pretty good explanation in, I think, B60's mock draft. Bradley is a pretty good player, but frankly, I'd rather kick him out to the strong side where he used to play and draft Jamar Chaney, who's best in the middle. The weakside is pretty well set, although completely mediocre, and I'd honestly rather see White out there than Jordan.

Bradley seems like a much better option on the strong side as a guy who has the intensity and mindset to really stick his nose in there as the strong-side linebacker. Our middle linebacker needs to be better in zone coverage than Bradley is, needs a quicker first step on A-Gap blitzes, and needs to have the intelligence and patience to seek out misdirections or screen passes.

I'm not really impressed by many players in this draft.
Weatherspoon would be good as a weakside linebacker, but I don't like how he always avoids contact and goes around his blocker. He won't be able to do that nearly as much in the NFL. He's strictly a weakside linebacker too - can't see him playing anywhere else.

Brandon Spikes really let me down when going back through some of his game tape where I focused solely on him. He can hit hard and has that nasty demeanor that you look for in a player like that. But he really doesn't engage that well with blockers and in coverage, he looks really bad most of the time. He has no recognition of where to be in zone and struggles to stick with his man in zone. He's a 2-down linebacker at best.

Bowman looked good, but looks more like a weakside linebacker to me. He doesn't really go and blow up holes as he would need to as a SAM in our system, but he's good at avoiding tackles and making them come to him and make the mistake.

Jamar Chaney, to me, is the best linebacker in this class. He can do everything and do it well. He'd excel as a middle linebacker in our system.
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goose85


Joined: 12 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im starting to think we may see a line backer reload through the draft. I could see us taking BPA at all the linebacker spots from round 2 to 4. We may need to stop worrying about what is already in place and just draft the top talent.
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Bednarik60


Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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Location: Vancouver, Washington
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

goose85 wrote:
Im starting to think we may see a line backer reload through the draft. I could see us taking BPA at all the linebacker spots from round 2 to 4. We may need to stop worrying about what is already in place and just draft the top talent.


Agreed needs a major face lift, i dont feel any linebacker on the roster deserve anything, get young studs into to compete.


We need range at MIKE for this defense to truly click, leave all these exotic blitz schemes huges amounts of space for a MIKE to cover. Just cause a backer is fast doesnt mean hes a will. Takeo Spikes was considered the prototype WILL in his prime, yeah he was fast but damn was he a bully , big country strong kinda backer . Brandon Spikes compares to Takeo Spikes lol. something to think about.
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goose85


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Denver just released Andra Davis...
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dirtywaterRIP


Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know why you think Sean Weatherspoon avoids contact. He had over 160 tackles his junior season!

He ran a 4.5 and put up 32 reps at 6'2" 245. He can play any linebacker position. The problem is, he'll probably go in the first 15 picks and definitely the first 20.

Weatherspoon is perfect for this system. He's a force against the run, a dangerous blitzer and a playmaker in coverage.

He'd probably be the best linebacker we've had since....I don't even know- the Buddy Ryan days?

I'd even move up to get Weatherspoon...he'd be the tone setter for this defense.
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dirtywaterRIP


Joined: 22 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Eagles have met with Dakota Watson...he ran a 4.5 at the combine and has played SAM for the past few years.

If we could get him in the 4th round, he could start immediately...what a potentially great pick up.

We need a couple of fast, strong outside linebackers to take pressure off of Bradley until he's 100%.(won't be all year)

Bradley probably shouldn't play in coverage on that bum knee, so he's really a two down player in 2010.
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killdawabbit


Joined: 10 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dirtywaterRIP wrote:
I don't know why you think Sean Weatherspoon avoids contact. He had over 160 tackles his junior season!

He ran a 4.5 and put up 32 reps at 6'2" 245. He can play any linebacker position. The problem is, he'll probably go in the first 15 picks and definitely the first 20.

Weatherspoon is perfect for this system. He's a force against the run, a dangerous blitzer and a playmaker in coverage.

He'd probably be the best linebacker we've had since....I don't even know- the Buddy Ryan days?

I'd even move up to get Weatherspoon...he'd be the tone setter for this defense.


You're kidding, right?

Tackles =/= engaging/shedding blockers. Which is one of the knocks on Weatherspoon. He would be a great 4-3 WILL and possibly good as a Tampa 2 MIKE, but he cannot play all 3 positions in a 4-3.
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mm6492


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jamar Chaney in the 2nd
AJ Edds in the 3rd

SLB: Edds and Bradley
MLB: Chaney and Bradley
WLB: Jordan and White (for special teams)

Wouldn't be bad.
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birdman0069


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some please explain the Edds pick to. I openly admit I miss thing just as every one else does. Let's take a little look at Ebbs.

Stats. Edds is 6-4, 246 lbs and has only played SLB in college. He has 5 int. for 29 yards, 4 passes defended, 25 tackles, 52 assists, 6 assists for a loss and 1 solo tackle for loss. While those numbers are very respectable they came against a very average Big Ten division.

Pro's. Edds is always in the right place at the right time. He can take on bigger TE's at the line of scrimage. HHe doesn't take extra steps getting to the ball carrier, very good read and react skills. Edds has very good form are rarely misses a tackle, He drives right through the ball carry and wraps up well. Edds has a very good understanding of all the fundamentals of the game and has slightly better then average straight line speed. The jury is out on his ability to blitz due to the fact that he was never asked to do it in college.

Cons. Edds has athletic limitations. His lateral ability and ability to change direction are below average. He does not play strong enough on the field for his size. He gets eatin up by linemen getting to the second level. Does not play with good balance and is a liability in pass coverage.

I believe we need to get more athletic at all three linebacker positions and Edds is less athletic then the players currently on the team. Why is everyone so high on him if he doesn't bring anything to team that we already have?
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mm6492


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

birdman0069 wrote:
Some please explain the Edds pick to. I openly admit I miss thing just as every one else does. Let's take a little look at Ebbs.

Stats. Edds is 6-4, 246 lbs and has only played SLB in college. He has 5 int. for 29 yards, 4 passes defended, 25 tackles, 52 assists, 6 assists for a loss and 1 solo tackle for loss. While those numbers are very respectable they came against a very average Big Ten division.

Pro's. Edds is always in the right place at the right time. He can take on bigger TE's at the line of scrimage. HHe doesn't take extra steps getting to the ball carrier, very good read and react skills. Edds has very good form are rarely misses a tackle, He drives right through the ball carry and wraps up well. Edds has a very good understanding of all the fundamentals of the game and has slightly better then average straight line speed. The jury is out on his ability to blitz due to the fact that he was never asked to do it in college.

Cons. Edds has athletic limitations. His lateral ability and ability to change direction are below average. He does not play strong enough on the field for his size. He gets eatin up by linemen getting to the second level. Does not play with good balance and is a liability in pass coverage.

I believe we need to get more athletic at all three linebacker positions and Edds is less athletic then the players currently on the team. Why is everyone so high on him if he doesn't bring anything to team that we already have?


He is the best pure SLB is this class. We need a SLB who can cover the TE, and Edds can do this. The SLB in our system does not require elite athleticism, it requires a player who can take on the leader blockers, occasionally blitz, and drop into coverage. Edds can do all of this.

Kind of reminds me of Ben Leber from the Vikings.
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killdawabbit


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still trying to figure out when a guy who was routinely used to cover slot WRs (successfully, I might add) became a liability in coverage...
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gothman25


Joined: 24 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

killdawabbit wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out when a guy who was routinely used to cover slot WRs (successfully, I might add) became a liability in coverage...


Are you referring to Edds? For, if so, I have to admit: that's pretty impressive.
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birdman0069


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mm6492 wrote:
birdman0069 wrote:
Some please explain the Edds pick to. I openly admit I miss thing just as every one else does. Let's take a little look at Ebbs.

Stats. Edds is 6-4, 246 lbs and has only played SLB in college. He has 5 int. for 29 yards, 4 passes defended, 25 tackles, 52 assists, 6 assists for a loss and 1 solo tackle for loss. While those numbers are very respectable they came against a very average Big Ten division.

Pro's. Edds is always in the right place at the right time. He can take on bigger TE's at the line of scrimage. HHe doesn't take extra steps getting to the ball carrier, very good read and react skills. Edds has very good form are rarely misses a tackle, He drives right through the ball carry and wraps up well. Edds has a very good understanding of all the fundamentals of the game and has slightly better then average straight line speed. The jury is out on his ability to blitz due to the fact that he was never asked to do it in college.

Cons. Edds has athletic limitations. His lateral ability and ability to change direction are below average. He does not play strong enough on the field for his size. He gets eatin up by linemen getting to the second level. Does not play with good balance and is a liability in pass coverage.

I believe we need to get more athletic at all three linebacker positions and Edds is less athletic then the players currently on the team. Why is everyone so high on him if he doesn't bring anything to team that we already have?


He is the best pure SLB is this class. We need a SLB who can cover the TE, and Edds can do this. The SLB in our system does not require elite athleticism, it requires a player who can take on the leader blockers, occasionally blitz, and drop into coverage. Edds can do all of this.

Kind of reminds me of Ben Leber from the Vikings.


He has never blitz's. He covered Te's and Slot recivers in zone coverage, not man to man. I am not bashing the guy. It just seems to me he is better suited for a Tampa two type system where the LB are playing deeper then we play and Edds can keep everything in front of him. Correct me if I am wrong but he only runs in the 4.65 range and with that kind of speed he is a liabilty in the defence we run.
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gothman25


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fly eagles fly wrote:
Killdawabbit had a pretty good explanation in, I think, B60's mock draft.


That's a big part of why I started this thread. I figured it would be interesting to have a more robust discussion over the state of our LB core.

fly eagles fly wrote:
The weakside is pretty well set, although completely mediocre, and I'd honestly rather see White out there than Jordan.


Is it so--pardon the pun--weak that you would reach for a WLB before drafting a MLB or SLB who might be slightly better at their respective position?

fly eagles fly wrote:
I'm not really impressed by many players in this draft.
Weatherspoon would be good as a weakside linebacker, but I don't like how he always avoids contact and goes around his blocker. He won't be able to do that nearly as much in the NFL. He's strictly a weakside linebacker too - can't see him playing anywhere else.

Brandon Spikes really let me down when going back through some of his game tape where I focused solely on him. He can hit hard and has that nasty demeanor that you look for in a player like that. But he really doesn't engage that well with blockers and in coverage, he looks really bad most of the time. He has no recognition of where to be in zone and struggles to stick with his man in zone. He's a 2-down linebacker at best.


To continue in the same vein as above: say we trade back into the beginning of the second, and both Weatherspoon and Spikes are still sitting there, do you go with either?

fly eagles fly wrote:
Jamar Chaney, to me, is the best linebacker in this class. He can do everything and do it well. He'd excel as a middle linebacker in our system.


You're the first, and only person I have heard mention Chaney in such a positive light. Most of the rankings I've seen him in say he's around the 4th or 5th best ILB prospect. Though, I have admittedly not had much time to pour over a large array of rankings.
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killdawabbit


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gothman25 wrote:
killdawabbit wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out when a guy who was routinely used to cover slot WRs (successfully, I might add) became a liability in coverage...


Are you referring to Edds? For, if so, I have to admit: that's pretty impressive.


Yes. While "routinely" was probably going a bit overboard, he still was called on to do it relatively often (particularly for a LB where, as you know, that is generally a mismatch teams look for). He also did a respectable job of it.
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