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"The Secret" (taken from Bill Simmons' Basketball
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97Den98


Joined: 25 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:22 pm    Post subject: "The Secret" (taken from Bill Simmons' Basketball Reply with quote

In Bill Simmons' Book of Basketball, he talks about The Secret, which basically implies that you need players that sacrifice for the team and are about winning to win championships and have long-term success. An example he states is when the Pistons traded Adrian Dantley, who seemed to be getting more selfish, for Mark Aguirre back in 1989. He said that they wouldn't have been able to win the title over the Lakers that year without getting rid of Adrian.

That made me think of B-Marsh, Scheffler, and Cutler. Are they our Adrian Dantley?
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lomaxgr


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who knows. What I do know is that regardless of whether I agree what Josh is doing or not, it adds yet more pressure onto himself to perform, and fast. Fans have turned on him already this year, despite having the chance to improve on last years record which was the goal for many early McDaniels 'haters'.

I thought next year would be a lot less pressure for Josh; if (or when) Marshall leaves, its going to be the same allllllllll over again.
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AnAngryAmerican


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lomaxgr wrote:
Who knows. What I do know is that regardless of whether I agree what Josh is doing or not, it adds yet more pressure onto himself to perform, and fast. Fans have turned on him already this year, despite having the chance to improve on last years record which was the goal for many early McDaniels 'haters'.

I thought next year would be a lot less pressure for Josh; if (or when) Marshall leaves, its going to be the same allllllllll over again.


That's a very good point about the pressure. A lot of fans didn't like Mac from the get-go and he's done his best to alienate even more fans. I understand and respect his desire to run the team his way and built it in his vision, but some of moves he's made personnel wise (not to mention his play-calling and other problems) have only served to make things harder on him. One would think a person of Mac's intelligence would be able to recognize this.
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AlaskaMagnum


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="lomaxgr"]Who knows. What I do know is that regardless of whether I agree what Josh is doing or not, it adds yet more pressure onto himself to perform, and fast. Fans have turned on him already this year, despite having the chance to improve on last years record which was the goal for many early McDaniels 'haters'.
[quote]

If McDaniels wants to stick around more than one more year, he better mature a lot himself. He needs to do the following

1) Point the finger at himself. He is the HMIC, he did not get it done, quit blaming your players, and take a good hard look at yourself. Try castigating your own bonehead mistakes in the media before you do it to your players. It's not being weak, it's showing fairness and wisdom.

2) Grow up. Quit airing the issues you have with your players in the media. Watching this guy is like watching my junior high school daughter and her friends. DRAMA!

3) Understand you are the boss, we all know you are the boss, your players understand you are the boss. Ifyou teach a man or an animal a lesson in meanness, they won't forget it easily. Being the boss does not mean you get to intimidate and bully everyone into following. I believe those leaders were shot in NAM by their own troops. Set an example, be fair and firm, show compassion when needed. Put your players first, your team second,

McDaniels is a little boy trying to play a man's game. Let's see how he matures this off season.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
lomaxgr wrote:
Who knows. What I do know is that regardless of whether I agree what Josh is doing or not, it adds yet more pressure onto himself to perform, and fast. Fans have turned on him already this year, despite having the chance to improve on last years record which was the goal for many early McDaniels 'haters'.

I thought next year would be a lot less pressure for Josh; if (or when) Marshall leaves, its going to be the same allllllllll over again.


That's a very good point about the pressure. A lot of fans didn't like Mac from the get-go and he's done his best to alienate even more fans. I understand and respect his desire to run the team his way and built it in his vision, but some of moves he's made personnel wise (not to mention his play-calling and other problems) have only served to make things harder on him. One would think a person of Mac's intelligence would be able to recognize this.


No you don't. Most of Denver, from what I can gather doesn't. They would be happier with flopping like this every season, as long as it was with Mike Shanahan. Josh McDaniels gets a terrible rep because he's not Mike Shanahan. Why is that true? Well it was shown even before the season. Everyone of his bigger FA signings worked out quite well for us in hindsight.

His playcalling leaves something to be desired, and yes, that does worry me and anger me. But again, give the guy more than one season of mediocrity, if you were willing to give mike since 1999 to be essentially mediocre.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="AlaskaMagnum"][quote="lomaxgr"]Who knows. What I do know is that regardless of whether I agree what Josh is doing or not, it adds yet more pressure onto himself to perform, and fast. Fans have turned on him already this year, despite having the chance to improve on last years record which was the goal for many early McDaniels 'haters'.
Quote:


If McDaniels wants to stick around more than one more year, he better mature a lot himself. He needs to do the following

1) Point the finger at himself. He is the HMIC, he did not get it done, quit blaming your players, and take a good hard look at yourself. Try castigating your own bonehead mistakes in the media before you do it to your players. It's not being weak, it's showing fairness and wisdom.

2) Grow up. Quit airing the issues you have with your players in the media. Watching this guy is like watching my junior high school daughter and her friends. DRAMA!

3) Understand you are the boss, we all know you are the boss, your players understand you are the boss. Ifyou teach a man or an animal a lesson in meanness, they won't forget it easily. Being the boss does not mean you get to intimidate and bully everyone into following. I believe those leaders were shot in NAM by their own troops. Set an example, be fair and firm, show compassion when needed. Put your players first, your team second,

McDaniels is a little boy trying to play a man's game. Let's see how he matures this off season.


Funny you don't give that same advice to Brandon Marshall, Jay Cutler or Tony Scheffler. Give me a break. At least the growing up part.
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germ-x


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While he does have more pressure...which he has brought on himself..and he may have issues with his play calling and what not...his biggest downfall so far is how he handles the media.

He made stupid remarks in the Cutler situation...and now has made more stupid remarks with Marshall...those remarks especially questioning his manhood in a way, whether he believed that or not..saying it i think severed their relationship for sure.
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AnAngryAmerican


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
lomaxgr wrote:
Who knows. What I do know is that regardless of whether I agree what Josh is doing or not, it adds yet more pressure onto himself to perform, and fast. Fans have turned on him already this year, despite having the chance to improve on last years record which was the goal for many early McDaniels 'haters'.

I thought next year would be a lot less pressure for Josh; if (or when) Marshall leaves, its going to be the same allllllllll over again.


That's a very good point about the pressure. A lot of fans didn't like Mac from the get-go and he's done his best to alienate even more fans. I understand and respect his desire to run the team his way and built it in his vision, but some of moves he's made personnel wise (not to mention his play-calling and other problems) have only served to make things harder on him. One would think a person of Mac's intelligence would be able to recognize this.


No you don't. Most of Denver, from what I can gather doesn't. They would be happier with flopping like this every season, as long as it was with Mike Shanahan. Josh McDaniels gets a terrible rep because he's not Mike Shanahan. Why is that true? Well it was shown even before the season. Everyone of his bigger FA signings worked out quite well for us in hindsight.

His playcalling leaves something to be desired, and yes, that does worry me and anger me. But again, give the guy more than one season of mediocrity, if you were willing to give mike since 1999 to be essentially mediocre.


It's rather presumptuous of you to say "no you don't." I don't have a problem with Mac running the team his way but I do have a problem with the way he runs it, does that make sense? I don't like his offensive scheme, I don't like his play-calling, I don't like benching star players for key games, I don't like the way he deals with the players, I don't like a whole host of his personnel moves, etc, etc, etc. It's completely within his right to do as he sees fit with the team, after all he is the Head Coach and de facto GM, but that doesn't mean I am going to abstain from questioning or outright criticizing him when I see fit.

And let's please stop pretending that Broncos were nothing but "mediocre" after the 2nd Superbowl and all the retirements. From 2000 through 2008 we made the playoffs 4 times, posted winning records 6 times, had a losing season only once and made it to the AFC Championship in 2005. And we did all of that with the likes of Brian Griese, Gus Ferrotte and Jake Plummer at QB.
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PGeorge2


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
lomaxgr wrote:
Who knows. What I do know is that regardless of whether I agree what Josh is doing or not, it adds yet more pressure onto himself to perform, and fast. Fans have turned on him already this year, despite having the chance to improve on last years record which was the goal for many early McDaniels 'haters'.

I thought next year would be a lot less pressure for Josh; if (or when) Marshall leaves, its going to be the same allllllllll over again.


That's a very good point about the pressure. A lot of fans didn't like Mac from the get-go and he's done his best to alienate even more fans. I understand and respect his desire to run the team his way and built it in his vision, but some of moves he's made personnel wise (not to mention his play-calling and other problems) have only served to make things harder on him. One would think a person of Mac's intelligence would be able to recognize this.


No you don't. Most of Denver, from what I can gather doesn't. They would be happier with flopping like this every season, as long as it was with Mike Shanahan. Josh McDaniels gets a terrible rep because he's not Mike Shanahan. Why is that true? Well it was shown even before the season. Everyone of his bigger FA signings worked out quite well for us in hindsight.

His playcalling leaves something to be desired, and yes, that does worry me and anger me. But again, give the guy more than one season of mediocrity, if you were willing to give mike since 1999 to be essentially mediocre.


It's rather presumptuous of you to say "no you don't." I don't have a problem with Mac running the team his way but I do have a problem with the way he runs it, does that make sense? I don't like his offensive scheme, I don't like his play-calling, I don't like benching star players for key games, I don't like the way he deals with the players, I don't like a whole host of his personnel moves, etc, etc, etc. It's completely within his right to do as he sees fit with the team, after all he is the Head Coach and de facto GM, but that doesn't mean I am going to abstain from questioning or outright criticizing him when I see fit.

And let's please stop pretending that Broncos were nothing but "mediocre" after the 2nd Superbowl and all the retirements. From 2000 through 2008 we made the playoffs 4 times, posted winning records 6 times, had a losing season only once and made it to the AFC Championship in 2005. And we did all of that with the likes of Brian Griese, Gus Ferrotte and Jake Plummer at QB.


I don't disagree with most of this, but if Mike was the offensive guru that everyone says, shouldn't he of had time to draft and develop a QB from the late 90's until he drafted Cutler. He knew Elway wasn't going to play forever. We had from 97-98 up until 2006 to draft and groom and QB and he didn't.

We can't blame Griese and Plummer, Mike showed faith in them by not drafting a QB early, or drafting one he was high on and developing. I'm not going to dive into what QB's we drafted from 97-06, but if he was unhappy with the current QB's, I'm almost sure there was someone in a ten year span that he could have worked with.

And IMO, after he won the back to back bowls, I think he became content. His name was always going to be right there with Elways, why should he bust his butt to keep up this great team when all of his great players were leaving? That's just my opinion, but I really just wanted to bring up his QB situation for ten years.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
lomaxgr wrote:
Who knows. What I do know is that regardless of whether I agree what Josh is doing or not, it adds yet more pressure onto himself to perform, and fast. Fans have turned on him already this year, despite having the chance to improve on last years record which was the goal for many early McDaniels 'haters'.

I thought next year would be a lot less pressure for Josh; if (or when) Marshall leaves, its going to be the same allllllllll over again.


That's a very good point about the pressure. A lot of fans didn't like Mac from the get-go and he's done his best to alienate even more fans. I understand and respect his desire to run the team his way and built it in his vision, but some of moves he's made personnel wise (not to mention his play-calling and other problems) have only served to make things harder on him. One would think a person of Mac's intelligence would be able to recognize this.


No you don't. Most of Denver, from what I can gather doesn't. They would be happier with flopping like this every season, as long as it was with Mike Shanahan. Josh McDaniels gets a terrible rep because he's not Mike Shanahan. Why is that true? Well it was shown even before the season. Everyone of his bigger FA signings worked out quite well for us in hindsight.

His playcalling leaves something to be desired, and yes, that does worry me and anger me. But again, give the guy more than one season of mediocrity, if you were willing to give mike since 1999 to be essentially mediocre.


It's rather presumptuous of you to say "no you don't." I don't have a problem with Mac running the team his way but I do have a problem with the way he runs it, does that make sense? I don't like his offensive scheme, I don't like his play-calling, I don't like benching star players for key games, I don't like the way he deals with the players, I don't like a whole host of his personnel moves, etc, etc, etc. It's completely within his right to do as he sees fit with the team, after all he is the Head Coach and de facto GM, but that doesn't mean I am going to abstain from questioning or outright criticizing him when I see fit.

And let's please stop pretending that Broncos were nothing but "mediocre" after the 2nd Superbowl and all the retirements. From 2000 through 2008 we made the playoffs 4 times, posted winning records 6 times, had a losing season only once and made it to the AFC Championship in 2005. And we did all of that with the likes of Brian Griese, Gus Ferrotte and Jake Plummer at QB.


AAA, let's face it, you want Mac to run the team like Shanny did. Everyone here likes a big shiny offense with no ability to put up points. The fact of the matter is that in terms of points, which is what matters, this team was only a FG worse, and that's without Mr. Godsend Jay Cutler.

Additionally, let's just throw this out there about Brandon Marshall. He said he wasn't playing anyway. What's the difference if he's deactivated. We weren't getting him on the field anyway? To me, there's no need to gripe about Marshall on the field, since he wasn't toughing it out anyway.

Denver has been NOTHING but MEDIOCRE after they won the SBs. It's funny how you're trying to justify Shanahan's QBs as the reason, but not Shanahan himself, yet you're doing the exact opposite to McDaniels. Playoffs and playoff wins are king no? If you're perfectly content winning games and flopping in the playoffs, be my guest. We won ONE playoff game in 11 years. That's not bragworthy from Shanahan, I don't care how much you like him. McDaniels had one season, where, with what everyone on here lauded as terrible pickups, he duplicated Shanahan's success, with a better defense, and an ALMOST lateral offense. He also only had one season to run the team as he sees fit. If you expected he would take us from below average, which is about what we were when Josh came, to SB champs, then you better curb your enthusiasm a bit.

This process was meant to take 2-3 years. Now that it didn't work in 1, everyones mad? Get real. Yes I'm unhappy about aspects of the team too, but let's not act like we're Detroit here people, after all, there was NEVER this much uproar under Shanny...
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AnAngryAmerican


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PGeorge2 wrote:
I don't disagree with most of this, but if Mike was the offensive guru that everyone says, shouldn't he of had time to draft and develop a QB from the late 90's until he drafted Cutler. He knew Elway wasn't going to play forever. We had from 97-98 up until 2006 to draft and groom and QB and he didn't.

We can't blame Griese and Plummer, Mike showed faith in them by not drafting a QB early, or drafting one he was high on and developing. I'm not going to dive into what QB's we drafted from 97-06, but if he was unhappy with the current QB's, I'm almost sure there was someone in a ten year span that he could have worked with.

And IMO, after he won the back to back bowls, I think he became content. His name was always going to be right there with Elways, why should he bust his butt to keep up this great team when all of his great players were leaving? That's just my opinion, but I really just wanted to bring up his QB situation for ten years.


One of Mike's biggest flaws was his constant attempts at quick-fixes in Free Agency. That's why he went out and signed Plummer. Plummer wasn't a perfect fit for Mike's offense (just as Orton isn't for Mac's) but he his skillset was likely deemed "close enough" by Shanahan. I don't think he ever wanted to undertake a major rebuilding effort and when he finally did (beginning with the 2006 draft) he was fired before he could complete it. But frankly that's all in the past and I don't see how it is relevant to the present state of the team.

broncos67 wrote:
AAA, let's face it, you want Mac to run the team like Shanny did. Everyone here likes a big shiny offense with no ability to put up points. The fact of the matter is that in terms of points, which is what matters, this team was only a FG worse, and that's without Mr. Godsend Jay Cutler.


Once again you're putting words in my mouth. What I want is a competent offense. When "McGenius" rode into town we had the #2 in yards and #16 in points offense and, after working his McMagic, we finished 15th in yards and 20th in points. And that's with an improved average starting field position, a better turnover differential and the league's 7th (in yards) ranked defense.

My criticism of Mac has nothing to do with Shanahan whatsoever. It has to do with the fact this supposed offensive genius' offense is inept. Go look at the tape - we can't run, we can't block, we can pass past 10 yards, we can't convert 3rd downs, we're terrible in the red zone and we struggle to score points. That's my problem (or one of them) with Mac, not that he isn't Mike Shanahan.

broncos67 wrote:
Denver has been NOTHING but MEDIOCRE after they won the SBs. It's funny how you're trying to justify Shanahan's QBs as the reason, but not Shanahan himself, yet you're doing the exact opposite to McDaniels. Playoffs and playoff wins are king no? If you're perfectly content winning games and flopping in the playoffs, be my guest. We won ONE playoff game in 11 years. That's not bragworthy from Shanahan, I don't care how much you like him. McDaniels had one season, where, with what everyone on here lauded as terrible pickups, he duplicated Shanahan's success, with a better defense, and an ALMOST lateral offense. He also only had one season to run the team as he sees fit. If you expected he would take us from below average, which is about what we were when Josh came, to SB champs, then you better curb your enthusiasm a bit.

This process was meant to take 2-3 years. Now that it didn't work in 1, everyones mad? Get real. Yes I'm unhappy about aspects of the team too, but let's not act like we're Detroit here people, after all, there was NEVER this much uproar under Shanny...


Look I'm done talking about the past. You, to your credit, was one of the few people around here to celebrate Mike's firing last year. You didn't like him and you've justified your reasons for feeling as such very well. But Josh McDaniels is our coach now; you should either defend him or criticize him rather than bring up what Mike Shanahan did or did not do during his tenure here.
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PGeorge2


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
PGeorge2 wrote:
I don't disagree with most of this, but if Mike was the offensive guru that everyone says, shouldn't he of had time to draft and develop a QB from the late 90's until he drafted Cutler. He knew Elway wasn't going to play forever. We had from 97-98 up until 2006 to draft and groom and QB and he didn't.

We can't blame Griese and Plummer, Mike showed faith in them by not drafting a QB early, or drafting one he was high on and developing. I'm not going to dive into what QB's we drafted from 97-06, but if he was unhappy with the current QB's, I'm almost sure there was someone in a ten year span that he could have worked with.

And IMO, after he won the back to back bowls, I think he became content. His name was always going to be right there with Elways, why should he bust his butt to keep up this great team when all of his great players were leaving? That's just my opinion, but I really just wanted to bring up his QB situation for ten years.


One of Mike's biggest flaws was his constant attempts at quick-fixes in Free Agency. That's why he went out and signed Plummer. Plummer wasn't a perfect fit for Mike's offense (just as Orton isn't for Mac's) but he his skillset was likely deemed "close enough" by Shanahan. I don't think he ever wanted to undertake a major rebuilding effort and when he finally did (beginning with the 2006 draft) he was fired before he could complete it. But frankly that's all in the past and I don't see how it is relevant to the present state of the team.

broncos67 wrote:
AAA, let's face it, you want Mac to run the team like Shanny did. Everyone here likes a big shiny offense with no ability to put up points. The fact of the matter is that in terms of points, which is what matters, this team was only a FG worse, and that's without Mr. Godsend Jay Cutler.


Once again you're putting words in my mouth. What I want is a competent offense. When "McGenius" rode into town we had the #2 in yards and #16 in points offense and, after working his McMagic, we finished 15th in yards and 20th in points. And that's with an improved average starting field position, a better turnover differential and the league's 7th (in yards) ranked defense.

My criticism of Mac has nothing to do with Shanahan whatsoever. It has to do with the fact this supposed offensive genius' offense is inept. Go look at the tape - we can't run, we can't block, we can pass past 10 yards, we can't convert 3rd downs, we're terrible in the red zone and we struggle to score points. That's my problem (or one of them) with Mac, not that he isn't Mike Shanahan.

broncos67 wrote:
Denver has been NOTHING but MEDIOCRE after they won the SBs. It's funny how you're trying to justify Shanahan's QBs as the reason, but not Shanahan himself, yet you're doing the exact opposite to McDaniels. Playoffs and playoff wins are king no? If you're perfectly content winning games and flopping in the playoffs, be my guest. We won ONE playoff game in 11 years. That's not bragworthy from Shanahan, I don't care how much you like him. McDaniels had one season, where, with what everyone on here lauded as terrible pickups, he duplicated Shanahan's success, with a better defense, and an ALMOST lateral offense. He also only had one season to run the team as he sees fit. If you expected he would take us from below average, which is about what we were when Josh came, to SB champs, then you better curb your enthusiasm a bit.

This process was meant to take 2-3 years. Now that it didn't work in 1, everyones mad? Get real. Yes I'm unhappy about aspects of the team too, but let's not act like we're Detroit here people, after all, there was NEVER this much uproar under Shanny...


Look I'm done talking about the past. You, to your credit, was one of the few people around here to celebrate Mike's firing last year. You didn't like him and you've justified your reasons for feeling as such very well. But Josh McDaniels is our coach now; you should either defend him or criticize him rather than bring up what Mike Shanahan did or did not do during his tenure here.


The reason it is relevant is because your argument seemed to be that if we had a better QB during those years with Griese and Plummer, Shanahan would have achieved much more. I don't see how that can be an argument for Shanahan. He had plenty of time after Elway to draft someone so he didn't have to sign stop gaps like Griese and Plummer. Don't feel sorry for him for not having a QB if he didnt invest in one.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
PGeorge2 wrote:
I don't disagree with most of this, but if Mike was the offensive guru that everyone says, shouldn't he of had time to draft and develop a QB from the late 90's until he drafted Cutler. He knew Elway wasn't going to play forever. We had from 97-98 up until 2006 to draft and groom and QB and he didn't.

We can't blame Griese and Plummer, Mike showed faith in them by not drafting a QB early, or drafting one he was high on and developing. I'm not going to dive into what QB's we drafted from 97-06, but if he was unhappy with the current QB's, I'm almost sure there was someone in a ten year span that he could have worked with.

And IMO, after he won the back to back bowls, I think he became content. His name was always going to be right there with Elways, why should he bust his butt to keep up this great team when all of his great players were leaving? That's just my opinion, but I really just wanted to bring up his QB situation for ten years.


One of Mike's biggest flaws was his constant attempts at quick-fixes in Free Agency. That's why he went out and signed Plummer. Plummer wasn't a perfect fit for Mike's offense (just as Orton isn't for Mac's) but he his skillset was likely deemed "close enough" by Shanahan. I don't think he ever wanted to undertake a major rebuilding effort and when he finally did (beginning with the 2006 draft) he was fired before he could complete it. But frankly that's all in the past and I don't see how it is relevant to the present state of the team.

broncos67 wrote:
AAA, let's face it, you want Mac to run the team like Shanny did. Everyone here likes a big shiny offense with no ability to put up points. The fact of the matter is that in terms of points, which is what matters, this team was only a FG worse, and that's without Mr. Godsend Jay Cutler.


Once again you're putting words in my mouth. What I want is a competent offense. When "McGenius" rode into town we had the #2 in yards and #16 in points offense and, after working his McMagic, we finished 15th in yards and 20th in points. And that's with an improved average starting field position, a better turnover differential and the league's 7th (in yards) ranked defense.


Ok so why dont you take a second and look at the improvements made by McDaniels, three of which you just noted yourself. Its well known that Shanny loved his offense, and that there was little being done to help the defense, so that 7th ranked defense (in yards) wouldn't be here, the turnover differential wouldnt, and the special teams has become a focus for improvement since McDaniels arrived. Your hung up on having Shanny's offense back, and having the zbs back. As you said, Shanny took the "close enough" route with Plummer in free agency, couldn't get exactly what he wanted, well McD took the "close enough" route with Orton. Now i agree, that Shanny was fired 2-3 years into his rebuild, so we don't really know where he could have taken us. Well didn't McDaniels lose a franchise Quarterback? So why is everybody freaking out when McDaniels is one year into his rebuild...? Turning over a roster, implanting a new defensive schemes, a new, complex offense, and new offensive blocking scheme and going 8-8 is impressive, no matter what the collapse. Are there flaws? of course. I believe this offense will work, but its a matter of getting the line in place. With Hamilton/Hochstein and Weigmann not starting and getting guys in the starting lineup who are better suited in this blocking scheme we'll definitely be able to run the ball better. After that its just a matter of having a QB who can run the offense better than Orton, I'm hoping that guy is Brandstater. This was never a one year transition to greatness, anyone who thinks that is foolish, it takes more than one offseason for a new coach to get his team running the way he wants it to run, especially when they are changing schemes and turning over the roster on both sides of the ball.

One thing i do feel more comfortable about with McD is that this team will be more balanced on offense and defense. We actually have a legit defense here in Denver now, i don't think that was one of Shanny's concerns towards the end of his time in Denver.

AnAngryAmerican wrote:

My criticism of Mac has nothing to do with Shanahan whatsoever. It has to do with the fact this supposed offensive genius' offense is inept. Go look at the tape - we can't run, we can't block, we can pass past 10 yards, we can't convert 3rd downs, we're terrible in the red zone and we struggle to score points. That's my problem (or one of them) with Mac, not that he isn't Mike Shanahan.


The running the ball in short yardage situations falls completely on the shoulders of our left guard and center. If you didn't know that Wiegmann was going to digress mightily going into the season with the switch in scheme you were a fool. He was below average in Kansas City in a man scheme, and credit to Shanahan was perfect in the zone scheme. Switching back to the man scheme was obvious trouble for Wiegmanns level of play. When we get players in the left guard, and center positions who are big enough to play those positions, and have the right skill set to play in the man scheme we should be able to convert more on third and short and red zone blasts. If after those two positions are upgraded we still suck in short yardage, then there will be a problem for me. Its McD's fault when he continues to choose that side to run to, but the performance of the players at those two positions was simply awful all season long.

Let the players that fit these schemes be put in place first though before we judge whether this new offense sucks. You can't get every position filled in a scheme change in just one offseason. I think to McD's credit he did an excellent job in free agency filling the holes we had, especially on defense, where im sure Nolan played a significant role in bringing in guys as well.

Let me reiterate though, it takes more than one offseason to rebuild a team, and i think Mac did well in one offseason lets see what he can do with a second before we send him to the guillotine. We all know Shanahan would be given more than one offseason to rebuild a roster entirely, so give McD the same leeway, and accept that he's going to be here, Shanahan wont, so its not an argument worth having, or thinking of the what ifs.
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AlaskaMagnum


Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 69
Location: Last Frontier
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:


Funny you don't give that same advice to Brandon Marshall, Jay Cutler or Tony Scheffler. Give me a break. At least the growing up part.


McDaniels is the head coach, he is suppossed to be the man, the leader, the rising and the setting sun. I EXPECT the kids to act like 25 year old kids gettting paid a king's ransom for playing a kid's game. I EXPECT the HEAD COACH to conduct himself like a professional and a man, and to figure out how to make these kids tow the stupid line. It is his job to keep these KIDS firing on all cylinders and on the right path. Sad that he cannot mentor and coach, only bullly and intimidate. Even sadder that he airs all of our teams dirty laundry for trail in the media. His nickname should be DRAMA.
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champ+jay+al=SB


Joined: 10 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basketball is just so different than football. And I believe that Detroit team was stacked.
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