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M-High Marauder


Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 2232
Location: Ohio
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:34 pm    Post subject: Let's just get this out of the way right now Reply with quote

Everybody needs to get off of the whole "Fire McDaniels" high horse.

Yes, this season ended in a horribly disappointing way.
Yes, the collapse is concerning
Yes, McD could have handled some of the personnel decisions a bit better.

But first, very few people thought that Denver would win 8 games at all.
Second, I know about 5 other 1st year head coaches who would give their left nut to be 8-8.
Third, believe it or not, this team is better than last years 8-8 team
Fourth, Shanahan had many late season collapses and only made one playoff appearance after Elway retired so it's not like he was doing great things with the team.

Every body is screaming to fire McDaniels after one 8-8 season, yet nobody was calling after Shanahan's head after many of them.

I realize that we are all very disappointed right now, but firing McD is not the answer. It will take a couple more pieces of the puzzle, not the least of which will be a new Qb, but It will get better.

I don't think anybody realizes just how much Nolan turned the defense around this year with a lot of players that had never played the system before. Imagine how good it can be with better personnel.

As for the offense, between Marshall, Scheffler, and Orton, it ought to be an interesting off-season. Maybe, Orton will do better with another year in the offense. I have a hard time seeing it, but you never know.

As much as a lot of people might not believe it, firing McDaniels at this point would hurt the team a lot more that it would help. We would be the Lions or Browns at that point. I am not a McDaniels apologist by any stretch, but he deserves some time.
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broncos67


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course they weren't calling for Shanahan's head. Half of the Broncos fanbase aren't realists. Many on here are, but many are not. They thought Shanahan would be coach until he died. Guess what? He wasn't cutting it since 1999. Like it or not, it's the truth.

Josh has one season under the belt with ZERO support from a fanbase. And he managed 8-8 with what many of our so-called esteemed posters said was a team worse than the Lions, a team that would only have 3-5 wins.
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jongean


Joined: 28 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. I actually thought McDaniels opened up the offense more and Orton just couldn't handle it. I don't know who he wants at qb but now I would be willing to let him go and just offer him a 2nd round tender. There has to be a better option there. The defense needs to be fixed upfront that was a joke.
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orangeandblue86


Joined: 25 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yea on defense we got pushed around all day just horrible
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broncs4life


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 1416
Location: Montreal
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
M-High Marauder wrote:
Everybody needs to get off of the whole "Fire McDaniels" high horse.

Yes, this season ended in a horribly disappointing way.
Yes, the collapse is concerning
Yes, McD could have handled some of the personnel decisions a bit better.

But first, very few people thought that Denver would win 8 games at all.
Second, I know about 5 other 1st year head coaches who would give their left nut to be 8-8.
Third, believe it or not, this team is better than last years 8-8 team
Fourth, Shanahan had many late season collapses and only made one playoff appearance after Elway retired so it's not like he was doing great things with the team.

Every body is screaming to fire McDaniels after one 8-8 season, yet nobody was calling after Shanahan's head after many of them.

I realize that we are all very disappointed right now, but firing McD is not the answer. It will take a couple more pieces of the puzzle, not the least of which will be a new Qb, but It will get better.

I don't think anybody realizes just how much Nolan turned the defense around this year with a lot of players that had never played the system before. Imagine how good it can be with better personnel.

As for the offense, between Marshall, Scheffler, and Orton, it ought to be an interesting off-season. Maybe, Orton will do better with another year in the offense. I have a hard time seeing it, but you never know.

As much as a lot of people might not believe it, firing McDaniels at this point would hurt the team a lot more that it would help. We would be the Lions or Browns at that point. I am not a McDaniels apologist by any stretch, but he deserves some time.


I cannot agree more! Well said M-High Marauder!
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AntiSuperstar


Joined: 07 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, if that's the fairytale you have to tell yourself to go to bed at night, be my guest. The reality of the situation is, Josh McDaniels came into this season with a lot of cap space and tons of draft picks, we didn't have close to half of the injury problems as last year's teams, and the younger players had another year to develop, yet here we are sitting with the same record at 8-8 when we had every reason to improve. Even the 'tough schedule' excuse became a myth as we can now say in hindsight that the Giants, Steelers, and Patriots weren't that good after all. Even worse, McDaniels is slowly but surely getting rid of the team's young talent. Cutler, Williams, Marshall and Scheffler will be next, and don't be surprised when Hillis bolts as well when he gets the chance with a team who will actually use him. Even Brett freaking Kern has played well for Tennessee, while we're stuck with an utter buffoon masquerading as an NFL player to replace him. And while that goes on not one of our rookies was a standout this year. Oh, but there's positive? The defense improved? Well even if you want to give McDaniels credit for that, fine, too bad the defense is old and will need replacements as well. Yeah, things are great.

But let's act like this season is somehow a pleasent surprise when many fans predicted a worse season. Well guess what? Most of those fans didn't predict the Patriots, Giants, and Steelers to all be mediocre teams. Most of those fans didn't see a fluke play against the Bengals. The only pleasant surprise is the defense. That's all, we failed to predict such a vast improvement from the defense. All I can say is we have better be able to re-sign Dumervil so you guys have something you can pin your hopes on.
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whenmidgetsatak


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AntiSuperstar wrote:
Hey, if that's the fairytale you have to tell yourself to go to bed at night, be my guest. The reality of the situation is, Josh McDaniels came into this season with a lot of cap space and tons of draft picks, we didn't have close to half of the injury problems as last year's teams, and the younger players had another year to develop, yet here we are sitting with the same record at 8-8 when we had every reason to improve. Even the 'tough schedule' excuse became a myth as we can now say in hindsight that the Giants, Steelers, and Patriots weren't that good after all. Even worse, McDaniels is slowly but surely getting rid of the team's young talent. Cutler, Williams, Marshall and Scheffler will be next, and don't be surprised when Hillis bolts as well when he gets the chance with a team who will actually use him. Even Brett freaking Kern has played well for Tennessee, while we're stuck with an utter buffoon masquerading as an NFL player to replace him. And while that goes on not one of our rookies was a standout this year. Oh, but there's positive? The defense improved? Well even if you want to give McDaniels credit for that, fine, too bad the defense is old and will need replacements as well. Yeah, things are great.

But let's act like this season is somehow a pleasent surprise when many fans predicted a worse season. Well guess what? Most of those fans didn't predict the Patriots, Giants, and Steelers to all be mediocre teams. Most of those fans didn't see a fluke play against the Bengals. The only pleasant surprise is the defense. That's all, we failed to predict such a vast improvement from the defense. All I can say is we have better be able to re-sign Dumervil so you guys have something you can pin your hopes on.


You guys really think Hillis would be a good RB when there is constant penetration? Hell, on kickoffs he just runs straight as fast as he cant until hes tackled. No way in hell he would succeed as a RB for us THIS YEAR. Knowshon made more -2 yard runs into positive runs than I have ever seen out of a Denver back. His ypc may not be great, but it could sure be worse.
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Kevin


Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 8043
Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whenmidgetsatak wrote:
AntiSuperstar wrote:
Hey, if that's the fairytale you have to tell yourself to go to bed at night, be my guest. The reality of the situation is, Josh McDaniels came into this season with a lot of cap space and tons of draft picks, we didn't have close to half of the injury problems as last year's teams, and the younger players had another year to develop, yet here we are sitting with the same record at 8-8 when we had every reason to improve. Even the 'tough schedule' excuse became a myth as we can now say in hindsight that the Giants, Steelers, and Patriots weren't that good after all. Even worse, McDaniels is slowly but surely getting rid of the team's young talent. Cutler, Williams, Marshall and Scheffler will be next, and don't be surprised when Hillis bolts as well when he gets the chance with a team who will actually use him. Even Brett freaking Kern has played well for Tennessee, while we're stuck with an utter buffoon masquerading as an NFL player to replace him. And while that goes on not one of our rookies was a standout this year. Oh, but there's positive? The defense improved? Well even if you want to give McDaniels credit for that, fine, too bad the defense is old and will need replacements as well. Yeah, things are great.

But let's act like this season is somehow a pleasent surprise when many fans predicted a worse season. Well guess what? Most of those fans didn't predict the Patriots, Giants, and Steelers to all be mediocre teams. Most of those fans didn't see a fluke play against the Bengals. The only pleasant surprise is the defense. That's all, we failed to predict such a vast improvement from the defense. All I can say is we have better be able to re-sign Dumervil so you guys have something you can pin your hopes on.


You guys really think Hillis would be a good RB when there is constant penetration? Hell, on kickoffs he just runs straight as fast as he cant until hes tackled. No way in hell he would succeed as a RB for us THIS YEAR. Knowshon made more -2 yard runs into positive runs than I have ever seen out of a Denver back. His ypc may not be great, but it could sure be worse.


As dissapointed as I've been with our running game this year, particularly Moreno's part, I have to say he's damn good when only a yard or two is needed, especially around the goal line. He has a real nose for the end zone, in short.
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whenmidgetsatak


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin wrote:
whenmidgetsatak wrote:
AntiSuperstar wrote:
Hey, if that's the fairytale you have to tell yourself to go to bed at night, be my guest. The reality of the situation is, Josh McDaniels came into this season with a lot of cap space and tons of draft picks, we didn't have close to half of the injury problems as last year's teams, and the younger players had another year to develop, yet here we are sitting with the same record at 8-8 when we had every reason to improve. Even the 'tough schedule' excuse became a myth as we can now say in hindsight that the Giants, Steelers, and Patriots weren't that good after all. Even worse, McDaniels is slowly but surely getting rid of the team's young talent. Cutler, Williams, Marshall and Scheffler will be next, and don't be surprised when Hillis bolts as well when he gets the chance with a team who will actually use him. Even Brett freaking Kern has played well for Tennessee, while we're stuck with an utter buffoon masquerading as an NFL player to replace him. And while that goes on not one of our rookies was a standout this year. Oh, but there's positive? The defense improved? Well even if you want to give McDaniels credit for that, fine, too bad the defense is old and will need replacements as well. Yeah, things are great.

But let's act like this season is somehow a pleasent surprise when many fans predicted a worse season. Well guess what? Most of those fans didn't predict the Patriots, Giants, and Steelers to all be mediocre teams. Most of those fans didn't see a fluke play against the Bengals. The only pleasant surprise is the defense. That's all, we failed to predict such a vast improvement from the defense. All I can say is we have better be able to re-sign Dumervil so you guys have something you can pin your hopes on.


You guys really think Hillis would be a good RB when there is constant penetration? Hell, on kickoffs he just runs straight as fast as he cant until hes tackled. No way in hell he would succeed as a RB for us THIS YEAR. Knowshon made more -2 yard runs into positive runs than I have ever seen out of a Denver back. His ypc may not be great, but it could sure be worse.


As dissapointed as I've been with our running game this year, particularly Moreno's part, I have to say he's damn good when only a yard or two is needed, especially around the goal line. He has a real nose for the end zone, in short.


To build on this, it is also his greatest weakness. He is good at short yardage because he gets the ball and just takes off first, then looks for a hole. However, he always runs this way, and thus sometimes runs right into the back of our OLine. Then again, I dont think there have been a lot of holes to run through this year. Hopefully we can get some new pieces inside, and a healthy Ryan Harris will certainly help as well.
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If I were [Peyton], I'd be on the phone with my agent BEGGING to see if Tennessee and San Fran are still interested


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ToastedOats


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 2990
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hey, if that's the fairytale you have to tell yourself to go to bed at night, be my guest. The reality of the situation is, Josh McDaniels came into this season with a lot of cap space and tons of draft picks, we didn't have close to half of the injury problems as last year's teams, and the younger players had another year to develop, yet here we are sitting with the same record at 8-8 when we had every reason to improve. Even the 'tough schedule' excuse became a myth as we can now say in hindsight that the Giants, Steelers, and Patriots weren't that good after all. Even worse, McDaniels is slowly but surely getting rid of the team's young talent. Cutler, Williams, Marshall and Scheffler will be next, and don't be surprised when Hillis bolts as well when he gets the chance with a team who will actually use him. Even Brett freaking Kern has played well for Tennessee, while we're stuck with an utter buffoon masquerading as an NFL player to replace him. And while that goes on not one of our rookies was a standout this year. Oh, but there's positive? The defense improved? Well even if you want to give McDaniels credit for that, fine, too bad the defense is old and will need replacements as well. Yeah, things are great.

But let's act like this season is somehow a pleasent surprise when many fans predicted a worse season. Well guess what? Most of those fans didn't predict the Patriots, Giants, and Steelers to all be mediocre teams. Most of those fans didn't see a fluke play against the Bengals. The only pleasant surprise is the defense. That's all, we failed to predict such a vast improvement from the defense. All I can say is we have better be able to re-sign Dumervil so you guys have something you can pin your hopes on.

Applause Applause Applause Applause

Anti,
I could not agree with you more. Well put.
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Kevin


Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 8043
Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ToastedOats wrote:
Quote:
Hey, if that's the fairytale you have to tell yourself to go to bed at night, be my guest. The reality of the situation is, Josh McDaniels came into this season with a lot of cap space and tons of draft picks, we didn't have close to half of the injury problems as last year's teams, and the younger players had another year to develop, yet here we are sitting with the same record at 8-8 when we had every reason to improve. Even the 'tough schedule' excuse became a myth as we can now say in hindsight that the Giants, Steelers, and Patriots weren't that good after all. Even worse, McDaniels is slowly but surely getting rid of the team's young talent. Cutler, Williams, Marshall and Scheffler will be next, and don't be surprised when Hillis bolts as well when he gets the chance with a team who will actually use him. Even Brett freaking Kern has played well for Tennessee, while we're stuck with an utter buffoon masquerading as an NFL player to replace him. And while that goes on not one of our rookies was a standout this year. Oh, but there's positive? The defense improved? Well even if you want to give McDaniels credit for that, fine, too bad the defense is old and will need replacements as well. Yeah, things are great.

But let's act like this season is somehow a pleasent surprise when many fans predicted a worse season. Well guess what? Most of those fans didn't predict the Patriots, Giants, and Steelers to all be mediocre teams. Most of those fans didn't see a fluke play against the Bengals. The only pleasant surprise is the defense. That's all, we failed to predict such a vast improvement from the defense. All I can say is we have better be able to re-sign Dumervil so you guys have something you can pin your hopes on.

Applause Applause Applause Applause

Anti,
I could not agree with you more. Well put.


Applause Applause Applause Applause

I've always enjoyed Anti's posts, too bad they are so few and far between.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

everyone thought in the offseason when we traded for Alphonso Smith that we were giving away a top 3 pick in the draft.

After 16 games, were giving away what like the 18th or 19th. So think about that. The team got better with McDaniels. I think a lot of fans on this site grew up with Shanny as the coach of the Broncos, so its hard to let go. As has been said, since Elway retired he wasn't cutting it. He got his quarterback after Elway in Cutler, and then he did nothing with the defense.

We digressed on offense but that comes with old age (Wiegmann and Hamilton), scheme change (again, Wiegmann and Hamilton) and obviously we severely digressed at QB. I don't really doubt this offense once we get a LG, a C that are quality, as well as a QB.

The defenses play this year was superb, and this was done mostly in free agency. So i don't doubt McDaniels in personnel decisions, he did a good job with improving this defense along with Nolan.

Head coach isn't our problem, you can't get every piece in place to run a team the way you want in one single offseason.

Honestly, who sees us digressing next year? I don't.
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terbo559


Joined: 04 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe broncos just need to fix up their quarterback more. it's mcD first year as a head coach and of course its gonna be complicated teaching a new system to the whole team.
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Mile High


Joined: 07 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I HATE the argument that we were better than we thought. Because who the HELL thought that pre McDaniels we would be a 6 win team or less. Who thought that after McDaniels a lot of us almost all.

If you were to say hypothetically the the broncos could have signed Mike Nolan with Shanahan and then goodman (who is honestly becoming a star in denver), Dawkins, Buckhalter, Hill, Andra Davis all followed. I could see us as a deep playoff team.


And terbo you could say that or you could say that the 6-0 that we were is because McDaniels was a new coach. Once figured out well...
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mile High wrote:
I HATE the argument that we were better than we thought. Because who the HELL thought that pre McDaniels we would be a 6 win team or less. Who thought that after McDaniels a lot of us almost all.

If you were to say hypothetically the the broncos could have signed Mike Nolan with Shanahan and then goodman (who is honestly becoming a star in denver), Dawkins, Buckhalter, Hill, Andra Davis all followed. I could see us as a deep playoff team.


And terbo you could say that or you could say that the 6-0 that we were is because McDaniels was a new coach. Once figured out well...


This just isn't true. Shanahan would never have signed Mike Nolan. Ever. He was married to Bob Slowik.

Second of all, yes that is an argument because guess what, McDaniels is the coach. Shanny wasn't getting the job done. I don't care how you want to spin that.

Do you realize how bad our defense was last year? Do you realize that in PPG our offense was about the same last year to this year.
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