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mkk
Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 82
Location: Cleveland
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 Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:39 am Post subject: Time do think about and do whats right long term for browns. |
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1. Hire Gm with full power and experience to run football operations,only people with the instant creditability are bill parcells, ron wolf,bill polian and maybe jimmy johnson on fox. lerner is going to have put up big money to fix his problem or watch his fan base and team's value erode.
2.fire mangini and find a coach who will be a long term solution for the franchise with a quality experienced staff on both offense & defense.
3.move to 4-3 defense: while everyone is moving to the 3-4 that means we are all competing for a shrinking pool of talent that is so hard to find to run this defense.
4.everyone on roster is trade bait except Joe Thomas.say all you want about that but we haven't had this good a tackle since the 50's or 60's and everyone else on roster can be replaced for younger,cheaper and probably more talented players.
5.we need about 14-18 picks in this draft because the next 2-drafts will be average to below average with everyone coming out.
6.any money spent on free agency will be spent on only extreme value or great locker room leadership for all the young players to learn how to be a pro football player with a strong work ethic.
Last edited by mkk on Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ensman13
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 807
Location: Austinburg, OH
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:49 am Post subject: Re: Time do think about and do whats right long term for bro |
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| mkk wrote: | | 1. Hire Gm with full power and experience to run football operations,only people with the instant creditability are bill parcells, ron wolf,bill polian and maybe jimmy johnson on fox. lerner is going to have put up big money to fix his problem or watch his fan base and team's vale erode. |
I like this idea, we need to find someone who will not be bullied around by the head coach. Somebody with experience as a GM, preferably.
| Quote: | | 2.fire mangini and find a coach who will be a long term solution for the franchise with a quality experienced staff on both offense & defense. |
I've thought long and hard about if I think Mangini should be fired. The main reason that I agree with firing him, though, is because if we could hire a coach who has proven they know how to deal with the offensive side of the football, our future would be much brighter than letting Daboll or someone like him running the show. Someone mentioned Kyle Shanahan in a different thread, and while that's pretty crazy seeing as he's only 29, I'd definitely take a chance on him.
| Quote: | | 3.move to 4-3 defense: while everyone is moving to the 3-4 that means we are all competing for a shrinking pool of talent that is so hard to find to run this defense. |
I really don't like this idea. Now that we have respectable talent on our defense, we can it and switch it up? Kam is pretty light to be playing DE. Our talent is much more suited to the 3-4, I think that's pretty easy to see.
| Quote: | | 4.everyone on roster is trade bait except Joe Thomas.say all you want about that but we haven't had this good a tackle since the 50's or 60's and everyone else on roster can be replaced for younger,cheaper and probably more talented players. |
I agree. While we won't be actively shopping all of the team, if someone came with a pretty nice deal, I would hope we would think about it for a good long time.
| Quote: | | 5.we need about 14-18 picks in this draft because the next 2-drafts will be average to below average with everyone coming out. |
I, like you, want as many picks as possible this year. In my eyes, this offseason is ultimately going to set the course for this franchise for the next 5 years. With the coaching decisions, the big FA dollars, tons of picks in one of the deepest drafts in years, this offseason will be a perfect example of why the offseason is the only fun time to be a browns fan 
| Quote: | | 6.any money spent on free agency will be spent on only extreme value or great locker room leadership for all the young players to learn how to be a pro football player with a strong work ethic. |
In FA, I really hope we can come away with around 3 or 4 players who will be good starters for us for a while. Maybe that is somewhat unrealistic, but if we could get 3 good starters and some depth in FA, get hopefully 3 instant starters in the draft, and a bunch of young promising guys (a Johnny Knox type guy late in the draft, maybe a QB later on if our new coach wants to try Quinn out, some DB depth) The team would be looking pretty promising to me anyway.
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elfman55
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 571
Location: Ashtabula,Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Time do think about and do whats right long term for bro |
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| ensman13 wrote: | | mkk wrote: | | 1. Hire Gm with full power and experience to run football operations,only people with the instant creditability are bill parcells, ron wolf,bill polian and maybe jimmy johnson on fox. lerner is going to have put up big money to fix his problem or watch his fan base and team's vale erode. |
I like this idea, we need to find someone who will not be bullied around by the head coach. Somebody with experience as a GM, preferably.
| Quote: | | 2.fire mangini and find a coach who will be a long term solution for the franchise with a quality experienced staff on both offense & defense. |
I've thought long and hard about if I think Mangini should be fired. The main reason that I agree with firing him, though, is because if we could hire a coach who has proven they know how to deal with the offensive side of the football, our future would be much brighter than letting Daboll or someone like him running the show. Someone mentioned Kyle Shanahan in a different thread, and while that's pretty crazy seeing as he's only 29, I'd definitely take a chance on him.
| Quote: | | 3.move to 4-3 defense: while everyone is moving to the 3-4 that means we are all competing for a shrinking pool of talent that is so hard to find to run this defense. |
I really don't like this idea. Now that we have respectable talent on our defense, we can it and switch it up? Kam is pretty light to be playing DE. Our talent is much more suited to the 3-4, I think that's pretty easy to see.
| Quote: | | 4.everyone on roster is trade bait except Joe Thomas.say all you want about that but we haven't had this good a tackle since the 50's or 60's and everyone else on roster can be replaced for younger,cheaper and probably more talented players. |
I agree. While we won't be actively shopping all of the team, if someone came with a pretty nice deal, I would hope we would think about it for a good long time.
| Quote: | | 5.we need about 14-18 picks in this draft because the next 2-drafts will be average to below average with everyone coming out. |
I, like you, want as many picks as possible this year. In my eyes, this offseason is ultimately going to set the course for this franchise for the next 5 years. With the coaching decisions, the big FA dollars, tons of picks in one of the deepest drafts in years, this offseason will be a perfect example of why the offseason is the only fun time to be a browns fan
| Quote: | | 6.any money spent on free agency will be spent on only extreme value or great locker room leadership for all the young players to learn how to be a pro football player with a strong work ethic. |
In FA, I really hope we can come away with around 3 or 4 players who will be good starters for us for a while. Maybe that is somewhat unrealistic, but if we could get 3 good starters and some depth in FA, get hopefully 3 instant starters in the draft, and a bunch of young promising guys (a Johnny Knox type guy late in the draft, maybe a QB later on if our new coach wants to try Quinn out, some DB depth) The team would be looking pretty promising to me anyway. |
If the BROWNS do this I would be very happy. I would like to see young Shanahan given a chance also but I don't think Lerner would take that big of a risk at this time. We do need an offensive minded head coach & stay with 3-4.
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H2ThaIzzo
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 653
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Time do think about and do whats right long term for bro |
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| mkk wrote: | 1. Hire Gm with full power and experience to run football operations,only people with the instant creditability are bill parcells, ron wolf,bill polian and maybe jimmy johnson on fox. lerner is going to have put up big money to fix his problem or watch his fan base and team's vale erode.
I agree 100% with this. I would prefer a previous GM who has had some success in this level, in my recent mock, I predicted Charley Casserly for that very reason.
2.fire mangini and find a coach who will be a long term solution for the franchise with a quality experienced staff on both offense & defense.
Russ Grimm, who I think would keep Rob Ryan and Bryan Cox, who seems to be doing WONDERS for our D-Line right now. Get us a worthwhile secondary coach, and I'll be happy.
3.move to 4-3 defense: while everyone is moving to the 3-4 that means we are all competing for a shrinking pool of talent that is so hard to find to run this defense.
Disagree here. As someone else said, Wimbley has the build, size, etc. to be a 3-4 OLB, and has made progress this year at that position. I don't think he would WOW anyone as a 4-3 DE. The only guy thats actually best suited to play the 4-3 on this team is Corey Williams (David Veikune too, but we don't even know if he would be good in that situation either). I think the 4-3 is an exciting defense to run, but we are only a couple pieces away from being a good 3-4 defense. Rubin has been a stud up front at NT when he gets in there, Rogers is Rogers, we just need a couple solid pick ups or draft picks, and we will be fine.
4.everyone on roster is trade bait except Joe Thomas.say all you want about that but we haven't had this good a tackle since the 50's or 60's and everyone else on roster can be replaced for younger,cheaper and probably more talented players.
Agree.
5.we need about 14-18 picks in this draft because the next 2-drafts will be average to below average with everyone coming out.
I have estimated us getting 14-15 players in the next draft in my mocks for this reason. Good teams build through the draft, right? Well this is our start. No more passing up on pure talent to get projects.
6.any money spent on free agency will be spent on only extreme value or great locker room leadership for all the young players to learn how to be a pro football player with a strong work ethic. |
Leadership is the key here to me. The money part I could care less about. I don't want to waste the entire cap signing big names, but if we have the money to spend, don't be cheap with it. Richard Seymour is a guy I would love to get. He still has I think 3 years at least left in the league, and could be a force alongside Rogers, Rubin and company. That would allow us to draft a 3-4 DE, like Odrick, Deaderick, Jones, etc. and let them learn behind one of the best.
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InTressleWeTrst
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 8913
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:14 am Post subject: |
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shawn rogers and seymour would be nasty on the same line.. whatever happened with him reporting to the raiders tho, was it because he didn't want to be there? i forgot.. but if it is the reason no way he comes here..
but say we sign him, eric berry round 1, cross our fingers a linebacker capable of starting day one slides to round two, with our second second rounder go rg or rt, third grab a tight end, free agency target a starting running back/rt option and a corner who could be a # 2, and not a bad offseason
next year decide if we need to spend a first on qb, if not, go wide receiver/cornerback/right tackle in the first, and just focus adding talent the rest of the draft
it's prob too far fetched to expect seymour and a starting caliber running back and a # 2 corner in one free agency period though
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H2ThaIzzo
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 653
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| InTressleWeTrst wrote: | shawn rogers and seymour would be nasty on the same line.. whatever happened with him reporting to the raiders tho, was it because he didn't want to be there? i forgot.. but if it is the reason no way he comes here..
but say we sign him, eric berry round 1, cross our fingers a linebacker capable of starting day one slides to round two, with our second second rounder go rg or rt, third grab a tight end, free agency target a starting running back/rt option and a corner who could be a # 2, and not a bad offseason
next year decide if we need to spend a first on qb, if not, go wide receiver/cornerback/right tackle in the first, and just focus adding talent the rest of the draft
it's prob too far fetched to expect seymour and a starting caliber running back and a # 2 corner in one free agency period though |
I think the Seymour thing would really depend on who we bring in here to lead this team. If we signed a legit GM/VP figure, and got a head coach thats all about winning, and less about the amount of power he gets, then maybe Seymour seeing that we have some talent on this team would sign thinking maybe its a diamond in the rough. The Raiders have almost no talent on the D-Line other than Seymour. I agree, its a far fetch, but he would be the perfect guy for the job here.
My question to you...If we did get Eric Berry with our first round pick, and pick 12 or something comes up, and McClain is still on the board, and Seattle, who has two first round picks this year, is up, is it too much to move up this year to that pick and take McClain?
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InTressleWeTrst
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| H2ThaIzzo wrote: |
My question to you...If we did get Eric Berry with our first round pick, and pick 12 or something comes up, and McClain is still on the board, and Seattle, who has two first round picks this year, is up, is it too much to move up this year to that pick and take McClain? |
imo, no
we have soo many holes to fill
unless if the seattle will take a second round pick and four of our backups, i don't think it would be worth giving up what it would take to move up.. maybe in two years we would be able give up a couple of pieces and grab an elitle player that slides, but nows not the time imo
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| Estonianzulu wrote: | | InTressleWeTrst wrote: | | i need a protege |
I'll change my name to "InCooperWeTust" and we can roll with it. |
| BaltimoreTerp wrote: | | If I change my screename to InEferonWeTrst, can I be your protege? |
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H2ThaIzzo
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 653
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| InTressleWeTrst wrote: | | H2ThaIzzo wrote: |
My question to you...If we did get Eric Berry with our first round pick, and pick 12 or something comes up, and McClain is still on the board, and Seattle, who has two first round picks this year, is up, is it too much to move up this year to that pick and take McClain? |
imo, no
we have soo many holes to fill
unless if the seattle will take a second round pick and four of our backups, i don't think it would be worth giving up what it would take to move up.. maybe in two years we would be able give up a couple of pieces and grab an elitle player that slides, but nows not the time imo |
The only other ILB's I would really be interested in bringing in are Micah Johnson, Joe Pawelek, Daryl Washington and Pat Angerer.
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cthomas09
Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 1023
Location: ohio
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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There is no way we are getting any big name FA unless we hire i good respected coach. No one will want to come to this team. I like everyones ideas in here because anything is better than what we got right?
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sleeper43
Joined: 06 May 2007
Posts: 1323
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| H2ThaIzzo wrote: | | InTressleWeTrst wrote: | shawn rogers and seymour would be nasty on the same line.. whatever happened with him reporting to the raiders tho, was it because he didn't want to be there? i forgot.. but if it is the reason no way he comes here..
but say we sign him, eric berry round 1, cross our fingers a linebacker capable of starting day one slides to round two, with our second second rounder go rg or rt, third grab a tight end, free agency target a starting running back/rt option and a corner who could be a # 2, and not a bad offseason
next year decide if we need to spend a first on qb, if not, go wide receiver/cornerback/right tackle in the first, and just focus adding talent the rest of the draft
it's prob too far fetched to expect seymour and a starting caliber running back and a # 2 corner in one free agency period though |
I think the Seymour thing would really depend on who we bring in here to lead this team. If we signed a legit GM/VP figure, and got a head coach thats all about winning, and less about the amount of power he gets, then maybe Seymour seeing that we have some talent on this team would sign thinking maybe its a diamond in the rough. The Raiders have almost no talent on the D-Line other than Seymour. I agree, its a far fetch, but he would be the perfect guy for the job here.
My question to you...If we did get Eric Berry with our first round pick, and pick 12 or something comes up, and McClain is still on the board, and Seattle, who has two first round picks this year, is up, is it too much to move up this year to that pick and take McClain? |
I think I would, I would love a good field general for our D, ala Ray Lewis on the Ravens. Bringing in that type of player along with a potentially elite Safety, and the continued coaching of Rob Ryan, this D would be on its way.
Maybe the 2011 1st (weak draft) and a 2010 3rd would be enough?
I know I know, let me have it for trading away a future round 1 pick. 
The thing is, in 2011 we hopefully will be picking in the middle of the pack anyway so it wouldn't be a top of round 1 type pick. Also the 2011 draft looks to be considerably weaker than the 2010 draft, a guy like McClain in the 2011 draft would likely be a top 3 pick.
So, essentially we would be using our middle of the pack round 1 in 2011 pick to get what would be a top 3 talent in 2011, but we are getting him a year earlier, and all it is really costing for this trade off would be a round 3 pick in 2010.
We would have our Ed Reed, and we would have our Ray Lewis, and they would both be extremely young with a dozen years in front of them. Call me crazy but I like that idea.
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BooyaCS
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 3402
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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IMO there are only a few ways to turn this around and actually have a winning football team.
1.) Hire a PFO/GM that is a "football guy"
2.) Let him hire his coach
3.) Give them at least 3-4 years regardless of record. |
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H2ThaIzzo
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 653
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| sleeper43 wrote: | | H2ThaIzzo wrote: | | InTressleWeTrst wrote: | shawn rogers and seymour would be nasty on the same line.. whatever happened with him reporting to the raiders tho, was it because he didn't want to be there? i forgot.. but if it is the reason no way he comes here..
but say we sign him, eric berry round 1, cross our fingers a linebacker capable of starting day one slides to round two, with our second second rounder go rg or rt, third grab a tight end, free agency target a starting running back/rt option and a corner who could be a # 2, and not a bad offseason
next year decide if we need to spend a first on qb, if not, go wide receiver/cornerback/right tackle in the first, and just focus adding talent the rest of the draft
it's prob too far fetched to expect seymour and a starting caliber running back and a # 2 corner in one free agency period though |
I think the Seymour thing would really depend on who we bring in here to lead this team. If we signed a legit GM/VP figure, and got a head coach thats all about winning, and less about the amount of power he gets, then maybe Seymour seeing that we have some talent on this team would sign thinking maybe its a diamond in the rough. The Raiders have almost no talent on the D-Line other than Seymour. I agree, its a far fetch, but he would be the perfect guy for the job here.
My question to you...If we did get Eric Berry with our first round pick, and pick 12 or something comes up, and McClain is still on the board, and Seattle, who has two first round picks this year, is up, is it too much to move up this year to that pick and take McClain? |
I think I would, I would love a good field general for our D, ala Ray Lewis on the Ravens. Bringing in that type of player along with a potentially elite Safety, and the continued coaching of Rob Ryan, this D would be on its way.
Maybe the 2011 1st (weak draft) and a 2010 3rd would be enough?
I know I know, let me have it for trading away a future round 1 pick.
The thing is, in 2011 we hopefully will be picking in the middle of the pack anyway so it wouldn't be a top of round 1 type pick. Also the 2011 draft looks to be considerably weaker than the 2010 draft, a guy like McClain in the 2011 draft would likely be a top 3 pick.
So, essentially we would be using our middle of the pack round 1 in 2011 pick to get what would be a top 3 talent in 2011, but we are getting him a year earlier, and all it is really costing for this trade off would be a round 3 pick in 2010.
We would have our Ed Reed, and we would have our Ray Lewis, and they would both be extremely young with a dozen years in front of them. Call me crazy but I like that idea. |
I agree with this. I thought the same thing too, if we are merely giving back a first and either a player or a mid pick, I think it would be a great move to make to get McClain.
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hornbybrown
Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 2446
Location: dunedin new zealand
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| H2ThaIzzo wrote: | | InTressleWeTrst wrote: | shawn rogers and seymour would be nasty on the same line.. whatever happened with him reporting to the raiders tho, was it because he didn't want to be there? i forgot.. but if it is the reason no way he comes here..
but say we sign him, eric berry round 1, cross our fingers a linebacker capable of starting day one slides to round two, with our second second rounder go rg or rt, third grab a tight end, free agency target a starting running back/rt option and a corner who could be a # 2, and not a bad offseason
next year decide if we need to spend a first on qb, if not, go wide receiver/cornerback/right tackle in the first, and just focus adding talent the rest of the draft
it's prob too far fetched to expect seymour and a starting caliber running back and a # 2 corner in one free agency period though |
I think the Seymour thing would really depend on who we bring in here to lead this team. If we signed a legit GM/VP figure, and got a head coach thats all about winning, and less about the amount of power he gets, then maybe Seymour seeing that we have some talent on this team would sign thinking maybe its a diamond in the rough. The Raiders have almost no talent on the D-Line other than Seymour. I agree, its a far fetch, but he would be the perfect guy for the job here.
My question to you...If we did get Eric Berry with our first round pick, and pick 12 or something comes up, and McClain is still on the board, and Seattle, who has two first round picks this year, is up, is it too much to move up this year to that pick and take McClain? |
he is i believe going back to New England. the pats pulled a quick one on the raiders. get a first round pick and then get the player back in free agency at the end of the season.
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mkk
Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 82
Location: Cleveland
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:34 am Post subject: |
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some of the players who could fetch any return or be throw in's with others in a deal.
josh cribbs
shuan rogers
Corey Williams
kamerion wimbley
brady quinn
derek anderson-but probaly be released in summer for cap reasons |
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Butter273
Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 480
Location: Akron, OH
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:30 pm Post subject: Broke |
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| H2ThaIzzo wrote: | | InTressleWeTrst wrote: | shawn rogers and seymour would be nasty on the same line.. whatever happened with him reporting to the raiders tho, was it because he didn't want to be there? i forgot.. but if it is the reason no way he comes here..
but say we sign him, eric berry round 1, cross our fingers a linebacker capable of starting day one slides to round two, with our second second rounder go rg or rt, third grab a tight end, free agency target a starting running back/rt option and a corner who could be a # 2, and not a bad offseason
next year decide if we need to spend a first on qb, if not, go wide receiver/cornerback/right tackle in the first, and just focus adding talent the rest of the draft
it's prob too far fetched to expect seymour and a starting caliber running back and a # 2 corner in one free agency period though |
I think the Seymour thing would really depend on who we bring in here to lead this team. If we signed a legit GM/VP figure, and got a head coach thats all about winning, and less about the amount of power he gets, then maybe Seymour seeing that we have some talent on this team would sign thinking maybe its a diamond in the rough. The Raiders have almost no talent on the D-Line other than Seymour. I agree, its a far fetch, but he would be the perfect guy for the job here.
My question to you...If we did get Eric Berry with our first round pick, and pick 12 or something comes up, and McClain is still on the board, and Seattle, who has two first round picks this year, is up, is it too much to move up this year to that pick and take McClain? |
Like I posted I say we break the bank and go for broke.
@ QB - Trade DA and fully give Quinn the Ball sign a veteran backup.
@ RB - We draft two RBs who slide to rounds 2 or 3. 1 power, and 1 finesse, my favorite combo being Jonathan Dwyer and Joe McKnight. I would love to have Rashard Mendenhall and Reggie Bush and these 2 can be that.
@ FB - Resign Vickers
@ WR - We have a young core, all we need is that #1 playmaker aka Vincent Jackson.
@ O-line - Free Agents like Jason Spitz (RG) and Alex Barron (RT) would solidify the right side for a good price.
@ D-line - We need to trade Corey Williams and for the same price we can get Richard Seymour who still has some good years in him. Rodgers is solid and Coleman is highly underrated.
@ OLB - We need to sign a pass rushing force to take some of the pressure off Wimbley - I'll pay the money to bring in Shawn Merriman.
@ MLB - Jackson will be back and needs resigned, I'll trade everything I can to jump back up in round 1 to grab Ro McClain or Brandon Spikes.
@ CB - Carlos Rodgers is this year’s Jabari Greer and we need all the help we can get.
@ S - We may let Pool walk but his replacement is already in the division. Dawan Landry is a hard hitting beast, and pair him with The Sand Man Eric Berry in round 1we will have a defensive backfield will carry us to the Promised Land.
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