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JustPlainNasty
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 1570
Location: Las Vegas
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 Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:52 pm Post subject: Playcalling and the Offensive Line |
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Our lineman continue to do a good / very good job of executing the plays that are called.
Many times the issues that we have are caused by the blocking of the tight ends Spaeth and Miller who can be up and down, although they do a good job more often than not. Other times its just the design of the play. Occasionally the back or WR doesn't execute well either. For example a reverse this past week where Mendy went to wide when handing off to Wallace, little thing but it caused just enough of a problem and delay for the D to catch up.
My question is....is the play calling, primarily in the run game.limited by the physical capabilities of the offensive lineman and just that it is done to maximize the ability they do have? I guess Mobility is the main question as strength straight ahead is not an issue IMO they seem to win just about every battle straight ahead.
Or do we just limit ourselves with the playcalling.. ? |
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 16597
Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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I think our biggest issue is getting away from the run too much. I understand Ben is our best player and sometimes the situations dont allow us to run, but last week, Mendenhall was finding some success on the ground. He only got 10 carries. He fumbled and then they shied away from him. Seems like anytime a player makes a little mistake, we move away from them. Arians, as always, also fails to attack weaknesses in opposing defenses. NOT SAYING ITS ALL HIS FAULT! Alot of of times, execution is just poor. Ben was off last week. He played decent, but not up to the standards we expect.
As for the OLine, its much better, but they still struggle in short yardage. I disagree that the strength up front isnt an issue. It absolutely is IMO. Hartwig has below average strength. Essex is average at best. They may look good against mediocre defenses, but when they are playing beefy, strong, quality DLineman, they struggle greatly, especially in the run game.
Overall, the players just need to execute more consistently. Seems like we dont have trouble moving the ball, but stupid mistakes and stalling at points in a game seem to be the main issue.
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JustPlainNasty
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 1570
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| FourThreeMafia wrote: | I think our biggest issue is getting away from the run too much. I understand Ben is our best player and sometimes the situations dont allow us to run, but last week, Mendenhall was finding some success on the ground. He only got 10 carries. He fumbled and then they shied away from him. Seems like anytime a player makes a little mistake, we move away from them. Arians, as always, also fails to attack weaknesses in opposing defenses. NOT SAYING ITS ALL HIS FAULT! Alot of of times, execution is just poor. Ben was off last week. He played decent, but not up to the standards we expect.
Was very fortunate he wasnt picked a few times.
As for the OLine, its much better, but they still struggle in short yardage. I disagree that the strength up front isnt an issue. It absolutely is IMO. Hartwig has below average strength. Essex is average at best. They may look good against mediocre defenses, but when they are playing beefy, strong, quality DLineman, they struggle greatly, especially in the run game.
Overall, the players just need to execute more consistently. Seems like we dont have trouble moving the ball, but stupid mistakes and stalling at points in a game seem to be the main issue. |
I agree totally with the bolded.
Disagree to a good extent with the underlined.. This past week was a perfect example of a "beefy" D , they had little issue getting push, actually it was quite impressive. You know I go through play by play to watch/grade the oline, not boasting, but it takes a good bit of my time and my eyes are straining because of it. But they aren't bad enough not to see just yet  ..Essex continually gets very good push and has all season.. Hartwig does quite well too...As I see it the biggest issue for Hartwig is usually indecision on blitzes as to who to pick up. Every so often he slipped on a run play. He doesnt really lose ground ever on runs.
My biggest concern is this, are our lineman, mainly the guards mobile enough to run all the plays we would like to run?the guards?..is Hartwig...? Correct me if I'm wrong but Hartings used to have some pulling plays. Early in the season footwork was a big issue, but I haven't seen it lately. Perhaps that was more rust than anything. |
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 16597
Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| JustPlainNasty wrote: | | FourThreeMafia wrote: | I think our biggest issue is getting away from the run too much. I understand Ben is our best player and sometimes the situations dont allow us to run, but last week, Mendenhall was finding some success on the ground. He only got 10 carries. He fumbled and then they shied away from him. Seems like anytime a player makes a little mistake, we move away from them. Arians, as always, also fails to attack weaknesses in opposing defenses. NOT SAYING ITS ALL HIS FAULT! Alot of of times, execution is just poor. Ben was off last week. He played decent, but not up to the standards we expect.
Was very fortunate he wasnt picked a few times.
As for the OLine, its much better, but they still struggle in short yardage. I disagree that the strength up front isnt an issue. It absolutely is IMO. Hartwig has below average strength. Essex is average at best. They may look good against mediocre defenses, but when they are playing beefy, strong, quality DLineman, they struggle greatly, especially in the run game.
Overall, the players just need to execute more consistently. Seems like we dont have trouble moving the ball, but stupid mistakes and stalling at points in a game seem to be the main issue. |
I agree totally with the bolded.
Disagree to a good extent with the underlined.. This past week was a perfect example of a "beefy" D , they had little issue getting push, actually it was quite impressive. You know I go through play by play to watch/grade the oline, not boasting, but it takes a good bit of my time and my eyes are straining because of it. But they aren't bad enough not to see just yet ..Essex continually gets very good push and has all season.. Hartwig does quite well too...As I see it the biggest issue for Hartwig is usually indecision on blitzes as to who to pick up. Every so often he slipped on a run play. He doesnt really lose ground ever on runs.
My biggest concern is this, are our lineman, mainly the guards mobile enough to run all the plays we would like to run?the guards?..is Hartwig...? Correct me if I'm wrong but Hartings used to have some pulling plays. Early in the season footwork was a big issue, but I haven't seen it lately. Perhaps that was more rust than anything. |
Seems like most of our success running was to the outside.
And most of my issues with the run blocking are short yardarge, because Hartwig and the interior OL have trouble getting push.
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JustPlainNasty
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 1570
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| FourThreeMafia wrote: | | JustPlainNasty wrote: | | FourThreeMafia wrote: | I think our biggest issue is getting away from the run too much. I understand Ben is our best player and sometimes the situations dont allow us to run, but last week, Mendenhall was finding some success on the ground. He only got 10 carries. He fumbled and then they shied away from him. Seems like anytime a player makes a little mistake, we move away from them. Arians, as always, also fails to attack weaknesses in opposing defenses. NOT SAYING ITS ALL HIS FAULT! Alot of of times, execution is just poor. Ben was off last week. He played decent, but not up to the standards we expect.
Was very fortunate he wasnt picked a few times.
As for the OLine, its much better, but they still struggle in short yardage. I disagree that the strength up front isnt an issue. It absolutely is IMO. Hartwig has below average strength. Essex is average at best. They may look good against mediocre defenses, but when they are playing beefy, strong, quality DLineman, they struggle greatly, especially in the run game.
Overall, the players just need to execute more consistently. Seems like we dont have trouble moving the ball, but stupid mistakes and stalling at points in a game seem to be the main issue. |
I agree totally with the bolded.
Disagree to a good extent with the underlined.. This past week was a perfect example of a "beefy" D , they had little issue getting push, actually it was quite impressive. You know I go through play by play to watch/grade the oline, not boasting, but it takes a good bit of my time and my eyes are straining because of it. But they aren't bad enough not to see just yet ..Essex continually gets very good push and has all season.. Hartwig does quite well too...As I see it the biggest issue for Hartwig is usually indecision on blitzes as to who to pick up. Every so often he slipped on a run play. He doesnt really lose ground ever on runs.
My biggest concern is this, are our lineman, mainly the guards mobile enough to run all the plays we would like to run?the guards?..is Hartwig...? Correct me if I'm wrong but Hartings used to have some pulling plays. Early in the season footwork was a big issue, but I haven't seen it lately. Perhaps that was more rust than anything. |
Seems like most of our success running was to the outside.
And most of my issues with the run blocking are short yardarge, because Hartwig and the interior OL have trouble getting push. |
Often its something stupid that keeps them from succeeding in those situations. Ive said it often that Spaeth for example is so key in those situations and some games hes just off, misses and his guy gets in and breaks it up. Everybody can do there job well and one small hole in the boat sinks the ship just the same as a big one.
Another example at the end of the Chicago game they had a short yardage run 3rd and 1 or something, Colon played well the whole game, on that play he slipped missed his block and it broke up the whole play as his guy made the tackle...everybody else got their push..
Staples on the other hand is weak...I'd prefer to see Mewelde blocking..who by the way is so very impressive and hes gotta be strong to do alot of the things he does in the blocking game...He seriously is like the undercover / secret agent team MVP. |
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StillersFury
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 3907
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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I have a buddy who is a equal part owner of my site...He has crazy info on Arians...Most of it is positive. His poster name is Hardnose...He preaches the truth about Arians.
The offense has yet to fire on all cylinders.
Its coming.
DJ Johnson is seeing increased playing time...He is a weapon as a blocker.
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JustPlainNasty
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 1570
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| StillersFury wrote: | I have a buddy who is a equal part owner of my site...He has crazy info on Arians...Most of it is positive. His poster name is Hardnose...He preaches the truth about Arians.
The offense has yet to fire on all cylinders.
Its coming.
DJ Johnson is seeing increased playing time...He is a weapon as a blocker. |
I'll buy that... |
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Busch
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 86
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:40 am Post subject: |
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If it's true - howcome the instability in the offense?
I know Arians nothing has to do with a player dropping a ball or playing below standard. But it is the OC responsibility to make up a great gameplan - and Arians proves again and again, that it can't be done for an entire match...
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spush
Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 13249
Location: On top of the world
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:56 am Post subject: |
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also notice Arians has changed up the run game as well
more quick hitters and lead plays as opposed to the counters that were taking too long to develop and forcing OL to hold blocks for too long.
They ran alot more zone runs with Willie Parker giving him an option of what hole to run through. With Mendenhall, its open up a hole and hit it. And it seems to be working
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Busch
Joined: 21 Aug 2009
Posts: 86
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:40 am Post subject: |
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But I still not understand why Arians abanded a succesful running game against the Vikings, as he has done in the majority of this season matches. If the changes - as you say Spush - work.
The only game I remember they sticked to the run game, were against the Chargers.
I know Ben is our best player at the offense - but when he has a "off" day - as the Vikings game - it seems strange why Arians did't call more run plays to lift off presure from Ben.
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JustPlainNasty
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 1570
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Busch wrote: | But I still not understand why Arians abanded a succesful running game against the Vikings, as he has done in the majority of this season matches. If the changes - as you say Spush - work.
The only game I remember they sticked to the run game, were against the Chargers.
I know Ben is our best player at the offense - but when he has a "off" day - as the Vikings game - it seems strange why Arians did't call more run plays to lift off presure from Ben. |
One possible thought is perhaps they had some consideration of preserving Mendanhall for the upcoming gauntlet of our schedule. Yes there was a bye week but with the injury issues to Parker, maybe it was a thought, just throwing out a theory. Minnesota, Denver, Cincinnatti & Baltimore upcoming...I know its a reach thought.. I would've liked to see us go at them more as well..perhaps it was just the game plan figuring we wouldn't have as much success and they just stuck with it rather than diverting.
I do believe we can see more and more as we go..
My biggest question though is do we have mobility limitations that cause us not to be able to do as much as we'd like in the running game. Our lineman have done very well at executing what has been asked of them. to this point, this season. Are they capable of doing everything we'd like or should we look to improve? via the draft... |
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AlanFanecaFan
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 7301
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| JustPlainNasty wrote: | | Are they capable of doing everything we'd like or should we look to improve? via the draft... |
Only possibilities are at OC(maybe) and RG...
However, both Hartwig and Essex have been fine this year.......however due to low guaranteed $$$, they can be replaced if need be.....I just dont see it.....the staff just likes the cohesiveness, chemistry etc etc.
Not to mention Urbik in the wings......
Ill say only if a stud falls or great value presents itself.....basically on 1st round or not at all.
I actually see a middle round pick being used on a guy being a swing tackle.......no depth at OT.
I expect Colon to be resigned long term anyway.
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| bbllstr22 wrote: | | Also, brilliant moves like giving Roethlisberger that fat contract lead quickly to downward spirals. |
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JustPlainNasty
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 1570
Location: Las Vegas
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| AlanFanecaFan wrote: | | JustPlainNasty wrote: | | Are they capable of doing everything we'd like or should we look to improve? via the draft... |
Only possibilities are at OC(maybe) and RG...
However, both Hartwig and Essex have been fine this year.......however due to low guaranteed $$$, they can be replaced if need be.....I just dont see it.....the staff just likes the cohesiveness, chemistry etc etc.
Not to mention Urbik in the wings......
Ill say only if a stud falls or great value presents itself.....basically on 1st round or not at all.
I actually see a middle round pick being used on a guy being a swing tackle.......no depth at OT.
I expect Colon to be resigned long term anyway. |
I agree exactly..and I guess I'm getting at and talking about Iupati...
Thomas Austin is also a very good possibility as center/guard...
I do like Hudson though alot ...I dont know about Urbik.. |
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xhe518
Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 506
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| AlanFanecaFan wrote: | | JustPlainNasty wrote: | | Are they capable of doing everything we'd like or should we look to improve? via the draft... |
Only possibilities are at OC(maybe) and RG...
However, both Hartwig and Essex have been fine this year.......however due to low guaranteed $$$, they can be replaced if need be.....I just dont see it.....the staff just likes the cohesiveness, chemistry etc etc.
Not to mention Urbik in the wings......
Ill say only if a stud falls or great value presents itself.....basically on 1st round or not at all.
I actually see a middle round pick being used on a guy being a swing tackle.......no depth at OT.
I expect Colon to be resigned long term anyway. |
Yep, I agree with all this. I would not be at all surprised if the starting 5 next opening day are still Starks, Kemo, Hartwig, Essex, Colon. (Even if they drafted a OG in round 1, Essex would still be the opening day starter). I doubt they are ready to give up on Urbik yet either. They are a lot more patient than fans!
I can see them maybe going for a OC or RG in round 1 if the draft unfolds a certain way. |
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StillersFury
Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 3907
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | If it's true - howcome the instability in the offense? |
The Steelers offense lacks stability? I missed that.
No Oline can block 8 men in the box consistently.
Ben has the option of Audibling under Arians...That brings the most stability to this offense since 82 under Bradshaw
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