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Y2swain
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 279
Location: Akron, Oh
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 Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| BooyaCS wrote: | | Y2swain wrote: | | Its been 11 years, how long is it going to take for this team to get their s-hit together??? We are the new bungles, probably worse!! |
We have more winning seasons (2) than the Houston Texans (0). Lets not make it sound like we have been 4-12 every year for the past 11 years. |
Well a 9-7 year we backed into the playoffs, and a 10-6 year where we miss the playoffs!! At least the Texas have a decent D and Franchise QB, TE Receiver and Good running game to boot!! What do we have after 11 years? A Pro Bowl LT and Special team guy!!! Stop settling for crap, we deserve a hell a lot better than this!! |
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BooyaCS
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 3402
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Y2swain wrote: | | BooyaCS wrote: | | Y2swain wrote: | | Its been 11 years, how long is it going to take for this team to get their s-hit together??? We are the new bungles, probably worse!! |
We have more winning seasons (2) than the Houston Texans (0). Lets not make it sound like we have been 4-12 every year for the past 11 years. |
Well a 9-7 year we backed into the playoffs, and a 10-6 year where we miss the playoffs!! At least the Texas have a decent D and Franchise QB, TE Receiver and Good running game to boot!! What do we have after 11 years? A Pro Bowl LT and Special team guy!!! Stop settling for crap, we deserve a hell a lot better than this!! |
No we don't. With the constant complaining that is going around we deserve exactly what we are getting. Until people stop blaming the owner and making ridiculous claims that he doesn't care about the team he owns we are getting exactly what we deserve.
After the success of Jacksonville and Carolina the NFL made sure that expansion teams couldn't be that successful that soon. When that happened (first with Cleveland then with Houston) it was like the death nell on us. I will go even this far as Carolina only had 2 winning seasons in their first 10 years of existence but it wasn't sustained success either. Of all the expansion teams in the NFL only Jacksonville and Cleveland (1950) had early success. Most teams took 15-20 years before they were good. |
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dawgdish
Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 1280
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| BooyaCS wrote: |
No we don't. With the constant complaining that is going around we deserve exactly what we are getting. Until people stop blaming the owner and making ridiculous claims that he doesn't care about the team he owns we are getting exactly what we deserve.
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I love how you always turn it around and make it the fans' fault  After all the sold out games, merchandise, support through crap season after crap season, it's US FANS who have had the final say in all the franchise mismanagement and not MANAGEMENT itself? That's just ridiculous, tortured logic.
You should hear the media and fans here in NY. Mangini got more crap here than he's even come close to getting in Cleveland. Guess what? A real owner like Woody Johnson doesn't care. Eli Manning, a S.B. winning QB who isn't playing all that bad this year is getting more crap right now than any QB in Cleveland ever has. Guess what? Giants ownership doesn't care, and they keep on winning because they have solid management structure.
The Browns struggles are due to mismanagement - the only thing that has anything to do with fans is the fact we have a clueless owner who listens to clueless impatient fans ibecause he's one himself rather than a real manager and operates on gut reaction instead of hiring real experienced football people and letting them do their thing to build a franchise. Get over blaming passionate fans who want a winner, every city has them, and like I said, Cleveland's aren't nearly the most impatient.
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WimbleyROY
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 1449
Location: Lakewood, Oh
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| dawgdish wrote: | | BooyaCS wrote: |
No we don't. With the constant complaining that is going around we deserve exactly what we are getting. Until people stop blaming the owner and making ridiculous claims that he doesn't care about the team he owns we are getting exactly what we deserve.
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I love how you always turn it around and make it the fans' fault After all the sold out games, merchandise, support through crap season after crap season, it's US FANS who have had the final say in all the franchise mismanagement and not MANAGEMENT itself? That's just ridiculous, tortured logic.
You should hear the media and fans here in NY. Mangini got more crap here than he's even come close to getting in Cleveland. Guess what? A real owner like Woody Johnson doesn't care. Eli Manning, a S.B. winning QB who isn't playing all that bad this year is getting more crap right now than any QB in Cleveland ever has. Guess what? Giants ownership doesn't care, and they keep on winning because they have solid management structure.
The Browns struggles are due to mismanagement - the only thing that has anything to do with fans is the fact we have a clueless owner who listens to clueless impatient fans ibecause he's one himself rather than a real manager and operates on gut reaction instead of hiring real experienced football people and letting them do their thing to build a franchise. Get over blaming passionate fans who want a winner, every city has them, and like I said, Cleveland's aren't nearly the most impatient. |
wow, i could not agree more dawgdish.
I mean cmon, booya, you gotta be kidding me. the fans fault? we are getting what we deserve??? do you live in the city of cleveland? people wear there browns gear everywhere still, after all this -.
dawgdish pretty much covered my sentiments in his posts. merch, sold out games, the passion, come on. your opinion has to be the minority view. i have never heard a reporter, player, or fan of another team, even steelers fans, say we are getting what we deserve.
and how can you not blame randy learner for these hires?
if you invested in stocks, and the company constantly brought in upper level management and workers that did poor work, you'd be pissed that you were losing money because of the idiots brought in. no continuity, success, or even something to be proud of is pathetic.
simply put, you'd be a fool to invest in a company like that.
the guy owns a team that his father helped drive out of town. al lerner literally assisted in this teams departure. how do people forget this?
now his son runs the team in a horrific fashion.
you have mixed up the premise and result. the team has been horrible for so long that we are now reacting this way.
why praise a s***y situation for over a decade?
i do not understand that rationale at all.
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“You can learn a line from a win and a book from a defeat.” - Paul Brown. The Browns now have more books than the Library of Congress. |
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BooyaCS
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 3402
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| WimbleyROY wrote: | | dawgdish wrote: | | BooyaCS wrote: |
No we don't. With the constant complaining that is going around we deserve exactly what we are getting. Until people stop blaming the owner and making ridiculous claims that he doesn't care about the team he owns we are getting exactly what we deserve.
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I love how you always turn it around and make it the fans' fault After all the sold out games, merchandise, support through crap season after crap season, it's US FANS who have had the final say in all the franchise mismanagement and not MANAGEMENT itself? That's just ridiculous, tortured logic.
You should hear the media and fans here in NY. Mangini got more crap here than he's even come close to getting in Cleveland. Guess what? A real owner like Woody Johnson doesn't care. Eli Manning, a S.B. winning QB who isn't playing all that bad this year is getting more crap right now than any QB in Cleveland ever has. Guess what? Giants ownership doesn't care, and they keep on winning because they have solid management structure.
The Browns struggles are due to mismanagement - the only thing that has anything to do with fans is the fact we have a clueless owner who listens to clueless impatient fans ibecause he's one himself rather than a real manager and operates on gut reaction instead of hiring real experienced football people and letting them do their thing to build a franchise. Get over blaming passionate fans who want a winner, every city has them, and like I said, Cleveland's aren't nearly the most impatient. |
wow, i could not agree more dawgdish.
I mean cmon, booya, you gotta be kidding me. the fans fault? we are getting what we deserve??? do you live in the city of cleveland? people wear there browns gear everywhere still, after all this -.
dawgdish pretty much covered my sentiments in his posts. merch, sold out games, the passion, come on. your opinion has to be the minority view. i have never heard a reporter, player, or fan of another team, even steelers fans, say we are getting what we deserve.
and how can you not blame randy learner for these hires?
if you invested in stocks, and the company constantly brought in upper level management and workers that did poor work, you'd be pissed that you were losing money because of the idiots brought in. no continuity, success, or even something to be proud of is pathetic.
simply put, you'd be a fool to invest in a company like that.
the guy owns a team that his father helped drive out of town. al lerner literally assisted in this teams departure. how do people forget this?
now his son runs the team in a horrific fashion.
you have mixed up the premise and result. the team has been horrible for so long that we are now reacting this way.
why praise a s***y situation for over a decade?
i do not understand that rationale at all. |
Here is my take again...
Everyone wanted Mangini to fail from the start. Sorry that is the way I see it. No one was willing to give him time to do anything. They saw Shanahan, Cowher and immediately turned off any hire that wasn't that guy. When Mangini was hired everyone was saying it was the worst hire of all time.
Yes I do live and work in the Cleveland area and there are more fairweather Steelers fans here than Browns fans. The fans are impatient especially after seeing Baltimore win a title. We cannot move on so we want our title and we want it now. If we don't get heard then we throw a temper tantrum like a two year old until we get our way. Protests, Blackouts, derogatory names for All Cleveland sports teams (Mangina, Roker, Jammies, Agustus Gloop, Clowns). We sound like children with the name calling and collective bickering.
So yes we deserve everything we are getting. Until we can stop acting like children and whining when everything doesn't go our way then maybe just maybe we might be able to have something here. Heck even our threads for the games we have to take a stab at the city of Cleveland and misspell it on purpose. It is completely getting sickening and no wonder why we are the joke of the NFL, NBA, MLB it is because our fans are in essence jokes.
I keep hearing we want this and we want that yet we are not willing to give anyone any amount of time EVER to build a team. Why? Would you want 1 year or sustained success? I am getting the notion that people want just 1 year and then can wallow in the "Woe Is Me I am a Cleveland fan oh we are cursed attitude."
Players have come and gone, so have teams, Front Offices, Coaches and even owners. The only constant that has stayed are the fans and guess what our collective attitude sucks as a whole. Yes we want a winner so bad yet we aren't willing to wait.
Had we kept Chris Palmer for 4 years then fired him we would have been in much better shape. We were an expansion team and we fired our coach after 2 seasons. We never gave anyone time to build a team. So every 3 seasons we build up talent then fire everyone and clean house. Why? Because we are impatient. Again bickering back and forth with derogatory names for the next regime to come in.
Look at the Bengals. Because Mike Brown is too cheap to fire coaches Marvin Lewis has been given 7 years. In that time they had 1 winning season at 11-5 yet they stuck with the coach and are now looking like a decent team. If that was Cleveland Lewis would have been gone after 3 seasons and we would be rebuilding all over again.
Again what are we children? It has come to throwing temper tantrums because we have an entitlement complex ever since Baltimore won their superbowl?
My question is when does the name calling stop? When do we let someone actually build a team that can sustain some type of success? How long do they have before they are run out of town because after 8 games they are 1-7? |
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dawgdish
Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 1280
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| BooyaCS wrote: | | WimbleyROY wrote: | | dawgdish wrote: | | BooyaCS wrote: |
No we don't. With the constant complaining that is going around we deserve exactly what we are getting. Until people stop blaming the owner and making ridiculous claims that he doesn't care about the team he owns we are getting exactly what we deserve.
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I love how you always turn it around and make it the fans' fault After all the sold out games, merchandise, support through crap season after crap season, it's US FANS who have had the final say in all the franchise mismanagement and not MANAGEMENT itself? That's just ridiculous, tortured logic.
You should hear the media and fans here in NY. Mangini got more crap here than he's even come close to getting in Cleveland. Guess what? A real owner like Woody Johnson doesn't care. Eli Manning, a S.B. winning QB who isn't playing all that bad this year is getting more crap right now than any QB in Cleveland ever has. Guess what? Giants ownership doesn't care, and they keep on winning because they have solid management structure.
The Browns struggles are due to mismanagement - the only thing that has anything to do with fans is the fact we have a clueless owner who listens to clueless impatient fans ibecause he's one himself rather than a real manager and operates on gut reaction instead of hiring real experienced football people and letting them do their thing to build a franchise. Get over blaming passionate fans who want a winner, every city has them, and like I said, Cleveland's aren't nearly the most impatient. |
wow, i could not agree more dawgdish.
I mean cmon, booya, you gotta be kidding me. the fans fault? we are getting what we deserve??? do you live in the city of cleveland? people wear there browns gear everywhere still, after all this -.
dawgdish pretty much covered my sentiments in his posts. merch, sold out games, the passion, come on. your opinion has to be the minority view. i have never heard a reporter, player, or fan of another team, even steelers fans, say we are getting what we deserve.
and how can you not blame randy learner for these hires?
if you invested in stocks, and the company constantly brought in upper level management and workers that did poor work, you'd be pissed that you were losing money because of the idiots brought in. no continuity, success, or even something to be proud of is pathetic.
simply put, you'd be a fool to invest in a company like that.
the guy owns a team that his father helped drive out of town. al lerner literally assisted in this teams departure. how do people forget this?
now his son runs the team in a horrific fashion.
you have mixed up the premise and result. the team has been horrible for so long that we are now reacting this way.
why praise a s***y situation for over a decade?
i do not understand that rationale at all. |
Here is my take again...
Everyone wanted Mangini to fail from the start. Sorry that is the way I see it. No one was willing to give him time to do anything. They saw Shanahan, Cowher and immediately turned off any hire that wasn't that guy. When Mangini was hired everyone was saying it was the worst hire of all time.
Yes I do live and work in the Cleveland area and there are more fairweather Steelers fans here than Browns fans. The fans are impatient especially after seeing Baltimore win a title. We cannot move on so we want our title and we want it now. If we don't get heard then we throw a temper tantrum like a two year old until we get our way. Protests, Blackouts, derogatory names for All Cleveland sports teams (Mangina, Roker, Jammies, Agustus Gloop, Clowns). We sound like children with the name calling and collective bickering.
So yes we deserve everything we are getting. Until we can stop acting like children and whining when everything doesn't go our way then maybe just maybe we might be able to have something here. Heck even our threads for the games we have to take a stab at the city of Cleveland and misspell it on purpose. It is completely getting sickening and no wonder why we are the joke of the NFL, NBA, MLB it is because our fans are in essence jokes.
I keep hearing we want this and we want that yet we are not willing to give anyone any amount of time EVER to build a team. Why? Would you want 1 year or sustained success? I am getting the notion that people want just 1 year and then can wallow in the "Woe Is Me I am a Cleveland fan oh we are cursed attitude."
Players have come and gone, so have teams, Front Offices, Coaches and even owners. The only constant that has stayed are the fans and guess what our collective attitude sucks as a whole. Yes we want a winner so bad yet we aren't willing to wait.
Had we kept Chris Palmer for 4 years then fired him we would have been in much better shape. We were an expansion team and we fired our coach after 2 seasons. We never gave anyone time to build a team. So every 3 seasons we build up talent then fire everyone and clean house. Why? Because we are impatient. Again bickering back and forth with derogatory names for the next regime to come in.
Look at the Bengals. Because Mike Brown is too cheap to fire coaches Marvin Lewis has been given 7 years. In that time they had 1 winning season at 11-5 yet they stuck with the coach and are now looking like a decent team. If that was Cleveland Lewis would have been gone after 3 seasons and we would be rebuilding all over again.
Again what are we children? It has come to throwing temper tantrums because we have an entitlement complex ever since Baltimore won their superbowl?
My question is when does the name calling stop? When do we let someone actually build a team that can sustain some type of success? How long do they have before they are run out of town because after 8 games they are 1-7? |
Footballs Future does not equal 1 Lou Groza Blvd.
Again, you are confusing the fans, particularly internet message board ones (a venue where, yes, people will make jokes like calling a Mangina a Mangina) for the real life management of the Browns. WE fired Chris Palmer? No, management did. Management gave Romeo 4 years, not WE the fans...but the fans were pretty patient with him (not that it matters, again, it's management's decisions that matter). And WE message board fans complained about hiring Mangina from square 1 because it was done completely the wrong way....but if WE had anything to do with the real operation of the team WE wouldn't have hired him in the first place, so how could WE be getting what WE deserve? Do you see how badly your tortured logic fails? Lerner is spineless and clueless and doesn't know much about football, that's the problem. I've tried to explain this before, but if you think Lerner is being driven by the fans, that means the issue is with LERNER for being a poor, spineless manager - you should blame him instead of the fans.
And if you still think it's WE the fans that pull all the strings therefore our fault that things go bad, please explain how the Giants won a Super Bowl. I promise you the vitriol Coughlin took from NY fans before that dwarfs what Mangini's has to deal with in Cleveland (hint: the answer is the Giants have real management in place because their owners know what they are doing - we could desperately use the same). How come the Eagles go deep into the playoff all the time...their fans make NY and Cleveland combined look like Mother Theresa, they bood McNabb on draft day - hows that for patience? Yet it has no correlation to their management being strong therefore their team being successful.
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Last edited by dawgdish on Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Estonianzulu
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 5231
Location: Blacksburg, VA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| BooyaCS wrote: |
Everyone wanted Mangini to fail from the start. Sorry that is the way I see it. No one was willing to give him time to do anything. They saw Shanahan, Cowher and immediately turned off any hire that wasn't that guy. When Mangini was hired everyone was saying it was the worst hire of all time. |
As I recall, there was some unease, then when the pre-season got going with the post-draft period and what not, we were all proclaiming him as a great hire who was building our team in the correct way. So, I think you were wrong here, and it wasn't untill 3 games into the season that the questions turned to criticism.
| Quote: | | Protests, Blackouts, derogatory names for All Cleveland sports teams (Mangina, Roker, Jammies, Agustus Gloop, Clowns). We sound like children with the name calling and collective bickering. |
You pay to go see a game to be entertained. This is not entertaining football. With the price of going to game going up every season, and the economy going down, the desire to spend what little free cash you have on games can be a bit taxing when the performance ion the field is crap. As to Protest(s), when your owner is seemingly non-existent and your team isn't even putting a competative team on the field, can you blame the fans?
As to the nicknames, everyone makes those. Besides, we also use Bungles, Stoolers, Ratbirds, Cowgirls, Viqueens, Donkeys, Al Davis, you know, all the other "derogatory" games involve in the NFL. Its what all fans do. Ditto with the collective bickering.
| Quote: | | So yes we deserve everything we are getting. |
No, see that's just obtuse. The Browns fans, like Cubs fans, are the masters of "maybe next year", remember Browns fans crowning the year after the 10-6 team as our return to relevancy and the playoffs? Then when that failed, we said its ok, because in 2009 we are going to be better. And now we will go into 2010 saying the same thing.
| Quote: | | I keep hearing we want this and we want that yet we are not willing to give anyone any amount of time EVER to build a team. |
Palmer wasn't ready for his job, Butch was given too much power and Romeo was given 4 years, also known as 1 more than the average coach at any team in the NFL. Its not like Cleveland is alone in rotating coaches. Especially among teams without playoff trips.
| Quote: | | Look at the Bengals. Because Mike Brown is too cheap to fire coaches Marvin Lewis has been given 7 years. In that time they had 1 winning season at 11-5 yet they stuck with the coach and are now looking like a decent team. If that was Cleveland Lewis would have been gone after 3 seasons and we would be rebuilding all over again. |
Ok, then explain Lebeau. The only reason Marvin Lewis got 4 years, is because his first three years he went 8-8, 8-8, and 11-5.
| Quote: | | How long do they have before they are run out of town because after 8 games they are 1-7? |
Our record has very little to do with our anger. Its the abject failure of this team to perform in any way on the field. Our offense isn't bad, its non-existent. Our head coach seems indecisive and obtuse just because he can be, our players are dropping left and right to injury, oftentimes under the clouds of accusation and scandal, our General Manager apparently didn't know our star player was being traded (signaling inept leadership and communication failures) oh, and our star QB was given 3 games to prove his worth before being benched for a QB who is currently ranked 34th in QB rating, in a league with 32 teams that mean's the starters on 31 other teams, and 2 backups are playing better than he does.
All of this does tend to lead to some angst among money paying fans.
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Ut Prosim- "That I may Serve" |
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BooyaCS
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 3402
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Including Interim Head coahces then we are on Coach number 6 in 11 years. That is slightly less than 2 years a head coach. I know Palmer wasn't ready for his job he still should have got more than 2 years as an expansion team Head Coach. That is where the failure lies.
We have been back since 1999 and collectively we won't give anyone time. Palmer should have gotten 4 years regardless of record. We were an expansion team that need continuity for the sake of continuity.
Butch had too much power and quit. Savage and Crennel didn't really work all that well either but again they were run out of town.
So now after 8 games Mangini is the next one to be run out of town. It seems like we do this a lot. We run out players, coaches that we don't get along with. Had the Browns not moved we would have successfully run Bill Bellicheck out of town as well.
As for competitive games. They are to an extent as the game is competitive for about 2-3 quarters. The main issues lie on the offensive side of the ball more so than the defense.
Now here is the question. With the mess the team is in now and if Mangini is fired how long do you give his predecessor? 3 games? 8 games? Then think that you aren't willing to give Mangini at least 1 whole season before calling for his head so his predecessor should get less time. Hey why not blow it up every year and maybe we might have a winning team from the start. |
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InTressleWeTrst
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 8913
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| BooyaCS wrote: |
Here is my take again...
Everyone wanted Mangini to fail from the start. Sorry that is the way I see it. No one was willing to give him time to do anything. They saw Shanahan, Cowher and immediately turned off any hire that wasn't that guy. When Mangini was hired everyone was saying it was the worst hire of all time.
Yes I do live and work in the Cleveland area and there are more fairweather Steelers fans here than Browns fans. The fans are impatient especially after seeing Baltimore win a title. We cannot move on so we want our title and we want it now. If we don't get heard then we throw a temper tantrum like a two year old until we get our way. Protests, Blackouts, derogatory names for All Cleveland sports teams (Mangina, Roker, Jammies, Agustus Gloop, Clowns). We sound like children with the name calling and collective bickering.
So yes we deserve everything we are getting. Until we can stop acting like children and whining when everything doesn't go our way then maybe just maybe we might be able to have something here. Heck even our threads for the games we have to take a stab at the city of Cleveland and misspell it on purpose. It is completely getting sickening and no wonder why we are the joke of the NFL, NBA, MLB it is because our fans are in essence jokes.
I keep hearing we want this and we want that yet we are not willing to give anyone any amount of time EVER to build a team. Why? Would you want 1 year or sustained success? I am getting the notion that people want just 1 year and then can wallow in the "Woe Is Me I am a Cleveland fan oh we are cursed attitude."
Players have come and gone, so have teams, Front Offices, Coaches and even owners. The only constant that has stayed are the fans and guess what our collective attitude sucks as a whole. Yes we want a winner so bad yet we aren't willing to wait.
Had we kept Chris Palmer for 4 years then fired him we would have been in much better shape. We were an expansion team and we fired our coach after 2 seasons. We never gave anyone time to build a team. So every 3 seasons we build up talent then fire everyone and clean house. Why? Because we are impatient. Again bickering back and forth with derogatory names for the next regime to come in.
Look at the Bengals. Because Mike Brown is too cheap to fire coaches Marvin Lewis has been given 7 years. In that time they had 1 winning season at 11-5 yet they stuck with the coach and are now looking like a decent team. If that was Cleveland Lewis would have been gone after 3 seasons and we would be rebuilding all over again.
Again what are we children? It has come to throwing temper tantrums because we have an entitlement complex ever since Baltimore won their superbowl?
My question is when does the name calling stop? When do we let someone actually build a team that can sustain some type of success? How long do they have before they are run out of town because after 8 games they are 1-7? |
booya, i've said it before, i'll prob say it again, put down, "the secret"
the fans have nothing to do with the state of this team.. people can't agree on anything, you think a whole collective city is going to agree on sports? radio stations have sports talk shows playing almost 24/7 for a reason, because people can't agree on them. so according to you, learner has just decided to side with the "negative" sports fan each time?
this whole "it's the fans fault that we suck thing you've been on for the past couple of months is laughable at best.
also,
c.palmer
butch davis
romeo crennel
from 99 - 08
so who are these 6 guys you're naming? including interim coaches? yea thats sound logic 
last point, if the fans do have this influence you're claiming we have, then doesn't that reflect reallllllly poorly on learner? do you want that type of guy running your franchise? shouldn't he sell the team if he is that easily influenced by anonymous voices on the radio and internet?
just give it up man
_________________
| Estonianzulu wrote: | | InTressleWeTrst wrote: | | i need a protege |
I'll change my name to "InCooperWeTust" and we can roll with it. |
| BaltimoreTerp wrote: | | If I change my screename to InEferonWeTrst, can I be your protege? |
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mistakebytehlak
Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 16687
Location: Columbus, Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| InTressleWeTrst wrote: | | BooyaCS wrote: |
Here is my take again...
Everyone wanted Mangini to fail from the start. Sorry that is the way I see it. No one was willing to give him time to do anything. They saw Shanahan, Cowher and immediately turned off any hire that wasn't that guy. When Mangini was hired everyone was saying it was the worst hire of all time.
Yes I do live and work in the Cleveland area and there are more fairweather Steelers fans here than Browns fans. The fans are impatient especially after seeing Baltimore win a title. We cannot move on so we want our title and we want it now. If we don't get heard then we throw a temper tantrum like a two year old until we get our way. Protests, Blackouts, derogatory names for All Cleveland sports teams (Mangina, Roker, Jammies, Agustus Gloop, Clowns). We sound like children with the name calling and collective bickering.
So yes we deserve everything we are getting. Until we can stop acting like children and whining when everything doesn't go our way then maybe just maybe we might be able to have something here. Heck even our threads for the games we have to take a stab at the city of Cleveland and misspell it on purpose. It is completely getting sickening and no wonder why we are the joke of the NFL, NBA, MLB it is because our fans are in essence jokes.
I keep hearing we want this and we want that yet we are not willing to give anyone any amount of time EVER to build a team. Why? Would you want 1 year or sustained success? I am getting the notion that people want just 1 year and then can wallow in the "Woe Is Me I am a Cleveland fan oh we are cursed attitude."
Players have come and gone, so have teams, Front Offices, Coaches and even owners. The only constant that has stayed are the fans and guess what our collective attitude sucks as a whole. Yes we want a winner so bad yet we aren't willing to wait.
Had we kept Chris Palmer for 4 years then fired him we would have been in much better shape. We were an expansion team and we fired our coach after 2 seasons. We never gave anyone time to build a team. So every 3 seasons we build up talent then fire everyone and clean house. Why? Because we are impatient. Again bickering back and forth with derogatory names for the next regime to come in.
Look at the Bengals. Because Mike Brown is too cheap to fire coaches Marvin Lewis has been given 7 years. In that time they had 1 winning season at 11-5 yet they stuck with the coach and are now looking like a decent team. If that was Cleveland Lewis would have been gone after 3 seasons and we would be rebuilding all over again.
Again what are we children? It has come to throwing temper tantrums because we have an entitlement complex ever since Baltimore won their superbowl?
My question is when does the name calling stop? When do we let someone actually build a team that can sustain some type of success? How long do they have before they are run out of town because after 8 games they are 1-7? |
booya, i've said it before, i'll prob say it again, put down, "the secret"
the fans have nothing to do with the state of this team.. people can't agree on anything, you think a whole collective city is going to agree on sports? radio stations have sports talk shows playing almost 24/7 for a reason, because people can't agree on them. so according to you, learner has just decided to side with the "negative" sports fan each time?
this whole "it's the fans fault that we suck thing you've been on for the past couple of months is laughable at best.
also,
c.palmer
butch davis
romeo crennel
from 99 - 08
so who are these 6 guys you're naming? including interim coaches? yea thats sound logic
last point, if the fans do have this influence you're claiming we have, then doesn't that reflect reallllllly poorly on learner? do you want that type of guy running your franchise? shouldn't he sell the team if he is that easily influenced by anonymous voices on the radio and internet?
just give it up man |
up until this year i would have disagreed with booya
and i probably do for palmer, butch and romeo
but as soon as the word protest reached ESPN and blackouts were being thrown around, Randy Lerner jumped up out of his seat and met with fans and fired a GM
he realizes on top of his favorite team, this is also an investment for him. blackouts mean less ad revenue and ticket sales.
the fans may have a say now. at least an influence.
_________________
1. hope for nuclear meltdown
2. all of the browns gain super powers from the radioactive waste
3. still go 6-10
will create lulzy gameday threads for food |
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InTressleWeTrst
Joined: 13 Feb 2007
Posts: 8913
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| mistakebytehlak wrote: |
the fans may have a say now. at least an influence. |
well then we're -
an owner should care what the fans think, and try to make the stadium inviting, but when it comes to matters of the team, what the fans think shouldn't even be taken into consideration
_________________
| Estonianzulu wrote: | | InTressleWeTrst wrote: | | i need a protege |
I'll change my name to "InCooperWeTust" and we can roll with it. |
| BaltimoreTerp wrote: | | If I change my screename to InEferonWeTrst, can I be your protege? |
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BooyaCS
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 3402
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| mistakebytehlak wrote: | | InTressleWeTrst wrote: | | BooyaCS wrote: |
Here is my take again...
Everyone wanted Mangini to fail from the start. Sorry that is the way I see it. No one was willing to give him time to do anything. They saw Shanahan, Cowher and immediately turned off any hire that wasn't that guy. When Mangini was hired everyone was saying it was the worst hire of all time.
Yes I do live and work in the Cleveland area and there are more fairweather Steelers fans here than Browns fans. The fans are impatient especially after seeing Baltimore win a title. We cannot move on so we want our title and we want it now. If we don't get heard then we throw a temper tantrum like a two year old until we get our way. Protests, Blackouts, derogatory names for All Cleveland sports teams (Mangina, Roker, Jammies, Agustus Gloop, Clowns). We sound like children with the name calling and collective bickering.
So yes we deserve everything we are getting. Until we can stop acting like children and whining when everything doesn't go our way then maybe just maybe we might be able to have something here. Heck even our threads for the games we have to take a stab at the city of Cleveland and misspell it on purpose. It is completely getting sickening and no wonder why we are the joke of the NFL, NBA, MLB it is because our fans are in essence jokes.
I keep hearing we want this and we want that yet we are not willing to give anyone any amount of time EVER to build a team. Why? Would you want 1 year or sustained success? I am getting the notion that people want just 1 year and then can wallow in the "Woe Is Me I am a Cleveland fan oh we are cursed attitude."
Players have come and gone, so have teams, Front Offices, Coaches and even owners. The only constant that has stayed are the fans and guess what our collective attitude sucks as a whole. Yes we want a winner so bad yet we aren't willing to wait.
Had we kept Chris Palmer for 4 years then fired him we would have been in much better shape. We were an expansion team and we fired our coach after 2 seasons. We never gave anyone time to build a team. So every 3 seasons we build up talent then fire everyone and clean house. Why? Because we are impatient. Again bickering back and forth with derogatory names for the next regime to come in.
Look at the Bengals. Because Mike Brown is too cheap to fire coaches Marvin Lewis has been given 7 years. In that time they had 1 winning season at 11-5 yet they stuck with the coach and are now looking like a decent team. If that was Cleveland Lewis would have been gone after 3 seasons and we would be rebuilding all over again.
Again what are we children? It has come to throwing temper tantrums because we have an entitlement complex ever since Baltimore won their superbowl?
My question is when does the name calling stop? When do we let someone actually build a team that can sustain some type of success? How long do they have before they are run out of town because after 8 games they are 1-7? |
booya, i've said it before, i'll prob say it again, put down, "the secret"
the fans have nothing to do with the state of this team.. people can't agree on anything, you think a whole collective city is going to agree on sports? radio stations have sports talk shows playing almost 24/7 for a reason, because people can't agree on them. so according to you, learner has just decided to side with the "negative" sports fan each time?
this whole "it's the fans fault that we suck thing you've been on for the past couple of months is laughable at best.
also,
c.palmer
butch davis
romeo crennel
from 99 - 08
so who are these 6 guys you're naming? including interim coaches? yea thats sound logic
last point, if the fans do have this influence you're claiming we have, then doesn't that reflect reallllllly poorly on learner? do you want that type of guy running your franchise? shouldn't he sell the team if he is that easily influenced by anonymous voices on the radio and internet?
just give it up man |
up until this year i would have disagreed with booya
and i probably do for palmer, butch and romeo
but as soon as the word protest reached ESPN and blackouts were being thrown around, Randy Lerner jumped up out of his seat and met with fans and fired a GM
he realizes on top of his favorite team, this is also an investment for him. blackouts mean less ad revenue and ticket sales.
the fans may have a say now. at least an influence. |
The 5 coaches in 11 years.
Chris Palmer
Butch Davis
Terry Robiskie
Romeo Crennel
Eric Mangini
Ok so I hit 6 instead of 5. Also were we not ready to run Bill Bellicheck before the move? Also of those coaches listed only Crennel and Savage had a chance to build anything. Davis Quit Palmer was fired after 2 seasons (mistake).
We like to run coaches/players out of town. I am sorry but that is true. Can we at least let someone build a team even though it might not look good in the beginning? A coach/GM needs at least 3-4 years Minimum.
Palmer - 2
Davis - 2.5
Crennel - 4
Mangini - .5
So does the next coach get 4 games? |
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Estonianzulu
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 5231
Location: Blacksburg, VA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| BooyaCS wrote: | | Including Interim Head coahces then we are on Coach number 6 in 11 years. That is slightly less than 2 years a head coach. I know Palmer wasn't ready for his job he still should have got more than 2 years as an expansion team Head Coach. That is where the failure lies. |
You can not count interim coaches as part of your argument, Interim coaches by definition are not given a full shot at running the team. Most interim coaches never get a shot, the Marv Levy's and Samurai Mike's are the exception, not the rule.
| Quote: | | Palmer should have gotten 4 years regardless of record. We were an expansion team that need continuity for the sake of continuity. |
I don't disagree, but it wasn't the fans who drove Palmer out, it was his two terrible seasons and ownership wanting to hire a more exciting and 'better' coach. Besides, things that happened 9 years ago in the NFL have as much bearing as things that happened 20 years ago.
| Quote: | | Butch had too much power and quit. Savage and Crennel didn't really work all that well either but again they were run out of town. |
See though I disagree with the implication that we drove Crennel out. Frankly, most fans, while we didn't think Romeo was a great playcaller, were more upset with Savage's ego trip, Chud's lack of offensive progression and the failure of our defense to perform. We liked Romeo, he seemed like a genuine guy who, if you will recall, many people wanted to come back in a player personnel role.
| Quote: | | Had the Browns not moved we would have successfully run Bill Bellicheck out of town as well. |
I think its safe to say that Art didn't give a hoot about the fans in Cleveland by this point, so I disagree.
| Quote: | | The main issues lie on the offensive side of the ball more so than the defense. |
And given that Mangini spent 3 of our first 4 draft picks, 3 of them first day picks, on the offense you would think this would not be the case. Two years ago, our offense was unstoppable, heck even at times last year we were beastly. Now we can't manage a first down to save our lives. That fault lies in no small part with the coaching staff.
| Quote: | | Then think that you aren't willing to give Mangini at least 1 whole season before calling for his head so his predecessor should get less time. |
Calling for a coach's head is a result of poor communication and performance on the field. If Mangini want's less angst, he needs to put a quality performance on the field and stop being an apparently indecisive and secretive egomaniac.
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Ut Prosim- "That I may Serve" |
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