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Harper41
Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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 Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| 91jmay wrote: | | khodder wrote: | Here is a thought. Bills fans giving credit to Byrd for being in the right place at the right time. How about you give credit to the playcaller for using him in the deep middle where he is best used, and then credit Byrd for doing his assignment, something every NFL player should do.
Right Place Right Time INT's are Luck. Especially if they are tipped or are thrown basically straight to the player.
Take his 1st pick on Sunday, heck of a play, does it say anything about his ability in coverage, not really. |
7 in 8 games isn't luck. I refuse to believe any NFL player is that lucky. |
Lets look at it this way, if the WRs catch those tipped balls that he's intercepted, it just puts him in terrible coverage, hence the luck part.
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Harper41
Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Beast M0de wrote: | | khodder wrote: | | 91jmay wrote: | | khodder wrote: | Here is a thought. Bills fans giving credit to Byrd for being in the right place at the right time. How about you give credit to the playcaller for using him in the deep middle where he is best used, and then credit Byrd for doing his assignment, something every NFL player should do.
Right Place Right Time INT's are Luck. Especially if they are tipped or are thrown basically straight to the player.
Take his 1st pick on Sunday, heck of a play, does it say anything about his ability in coverage, not really. |
7 in 8 games isn't luck. I refuse to believe any NFL player is that lucky. |
Not all of them are pure luck. It is a combination of bad throws, being in the right place and athleticism.
Is he is the race for DPOY, no doubt whatsoever the raw numbers are impressive and that is what will garner votes for the award. As long as he keeps it up, people forgot about Chris Horton towards the end of last year when he really fell off the media map.
Does his raw numbers indicate much about his abilities on the field in coverage. No, maybe you can take a little out of it, but very little.
Also note where I said Right Place Right Time INT's are Luck, nothing about Byrd's INT's all being lucky, or all being right place right time. |
I think it is pretty safe to say that Byrd coverage skills are very good.
Since starting, there passing D has been lights out with Byrd back at FS. The Bills have not allowing a passing TD in 137 attempts, best in the NFL. Next closest is 43. There passing D and takeaway ratio with Jairus Byrd back at FS has been incredible. |
Am I the only one who thinks thats a flawed argument? That doesn't mean Byrds the reason for it. Hell Ed Reed is the best FS in the league but the Ravens secondary still plays like cow turd every week...The Bills have quite capable CBs and a good SS, I dont think Byrd is the reason their so good...I think its a combination of good CBs, good SS and a good FS.
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Beast M0de
Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Posts: 1318
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Harper41 wrote: | | Beast M0de wrote: | | khodder wrote: | | 91jmay wrote: | | khodder wrote: | Here is a thought. Bills fans giving credit to Byrd for being in the right place at the right time. How about you give credit to the playcaller for using him in the deep middle where he is best used, and then credit Byrd for doing his assignment, something every NFL player should do.
Right Place Right Time INT's are Luck. Especially if they are tipped or are thrown basically straight to the player.
Take his 1st pick on Sunday, heck of a play, does it say anything about his ability in coverage, not really. |
7 in 8 games isn't luck. I refuse to believe any NFL player is that lucky. |
Not all of them are pure luck. It is a combination of bad throws, being in the right place and athleticism.
Is he is the race for DPOY, no doubt whatsoever the raw numbers are impressive and that is what will garner votes for the award. As long as he keeps it up, people forgot about Chris Horton towards the end of last year when he really fell off the media map.
Does his raw numbers indicate much about his abilities on the field in coverage. No, maybe you can take a little out of it, but very little.
Also note where I said Right Place Right Time INT's are Luck, nothing about Byrd's INT's all being lucky, or all being right place right time. |
I think it is pretty safe to say that Byrd coverage skills are very good.
Since starting, there passing D has been lights out with Byrd back at FS. The Bills have not allowing a passing TD in 137 attempts, best in the NFL. Next closest is 43. There passing D and takeaway ratio with Jairus Byrd back at FS has been incredible. |
Am I the only one who thinks thats a flawed argument? That doesn't mean Byrds the reason for it. Hell Ed Reed is the best FS in the league but the Ravens secondary still plays like cow turd every week...The Bills have quite capable CBs and a good SS, I dont think Byrd is the reason their so good...I think its a combination of good CBs, good SS and a good FS. |
Your telling me my argument is flawed when you're telling me that because Byrd has bad coverage on a WR because of his some of his INT's are tipped...
Good SS? You mean our backup SS?
Good CB's? You mean Leodis McKelvin who hasn't played all year? or McGee who has been injured?
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Jairus Byrd 2009 Stat Tracker: 34 Tackles (23 solo) 8 INTs. 10 PD |
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Harper41
Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 474
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Beast M0de wrote: | | Harper41 wrote: | | Beast M0de wrote: | | khodder wrote: | | 91jmay wrote: | | khodder wrote: | Here is a thought. Bills fans giving credit to Byrd for being in the right place at the right time. How about you give credit to the playcaller for using him in the deep middle where he is best used, and then credit Byrd for doing his assignment, something every NFL player should do.
Right Place Right Time INT's are Luck. Especially if they are tipped or are thrown basically straight to the player.
Take his 1st pick on Sunday, heck of a play, does it say anything about his ability in coverage, not really. |
7 in 8 games isn't luck. I refuse to believe any NFL player is that lucky. |
Not all of them are pure luck. It is a combination of bad throws, being in the right place and athleticism.
Is he is the race for DPOY, no doubt whatsoever the raw numbers are impressive and that is what will garner votes for the award. As long as he keeps it up, people forgot about Chris Horton towards the end of last year when he really fell off the media map.
Does his raw numbers indicate much about his abilities on the field in coverage. No, maybe you can take a little out of it, but very little.
Also note where I said Right Place Right Time INT's are Luck, nothing about Byrd's INT's all being lucky, or all being right place right time. |
I think it is pretty safe to say that Byrd coverage skills are very good.
Since starting, there passing D has been lights out with Byrd back at FS. The Bills have not allowing a passing TD in 137 attempts, best in the NFL. Next closest is 43. There passing D and takeaway ratio with Jairus Byrd back at FS has been incredible. |
Am I the only one who thinks thats a flawed argument? That doesn't mean Byrds the reason for it. Hell Ed Reed is the best FS in the league but the Ravens secondary still plays like cow turd every week...The Bills have quite capable CBs and a good SS, I dont think Byrd is the reason their so good...I think its a combination of good CBs, good SS and a good FS. |
Your telling me my argument is flawed when you're telling me that because Byrd has bad coverage on a WR because of his some of his INT's are tipped...
Good SS? You mean our backup SS?
Good CB's? You mean Leodis McKelvin who hasn't played all year? or McGee who has been injured? |
Lets take a look at the tipped pass INT in the Carolina game. If Steve Smith catches that pass, he wouldn't have an INT and he would've let up a pass, putting him in bad coverage.
Terrence McGees played in all 8 games, and Drayton Florence wasn't playing terribly when I saw him against Carolina (He could be playing terrible for all I know though) and Bryan Scott was playing quite well against my Saints. Id say it isn't all Byrd but hey maybe im crazy and Byrds a top 5 FS.
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Maxmw22
Joined: 05 Feb 2007
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Location: Erie, PA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Harper41 wrote: |
Terrence McGees played in all 8 games, and Drayton Florence wasn't playing terribly when I saw him against Carolina (He could be playing terrible for all I know though) and Bryan Scott was playing quite well against my Saints. Id say it isn't all Byrd but hey maybe im crazy and Byrds a top 5 FS. |
True but you can't play the "what if" game. I mean what if Darren Sharper dropped those 7 INT's he has, then he has none and no one notices him. It isn't all Byrd, we have a very young and deep secondary and everyone is pitching in, but Byrd is his job, playing centerfield, just happens that results in more INT's than say a SS or a cover-2 CB would get. Does this mean that a DE getting 12 sacks a year isn;t all that good because the other DE is a run stopper and the other 2 DT's take up Double teams? No he is just doing his specific job, which is to rush the passer, he might be set up by other players, but he is still doing his job very well.
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Trent Edwards Stat Tracker 7 GS, 109/181, 60.2% comp, 1170 yds, 6 TD's, 7 INT's, QB RTG 74.1 |
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Harper41
Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 474
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Maxmw22 wrote: | | Harper41 wrote: |
Terrence McGees played in all 8 games, and Drayton Florence wasn't playing terribly when I saw him against Carolina (He could be playing terrible for all I know though) and Bryan Scott was playing quite well against my Saints. Id say it isn't all Byrd but hey maybe im crazy and Byrds a top 5 FS. |
True but you can't play the "what if" game. I mean what if Darren Sharper dropped those 7 INT's he has, then he has none and no one notices him. It isn't all Byrd, we have a very young and deep secondary and everyone is pitching in, but Byrd is his job, playing centerfield, just happens that results in more INT's than say a SS or a cover-2 CB would get. Does this mean that a DE getting 12 sacks a year isn;t all that good because the other DE is a run stopper and the other 2 DT's take up Double teams? No he is just doing his specific job, which is to rush the passer, he might be set up by other players, but he is still doing his job very well. |
Its not exactly what if but it shows that Byrd hasn't been in good coverage...Some of his INTs have been right place right time though.
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BeastM0de23RB
Joined: 04 Mar 2008
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Location: Upstate, NY
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:22 am Post subject: |
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Sharper's 7th INT came on a desperation Hail-Mary pass at the end of the game, so Saints fans can't say Byrd is just a beneficiary of some tipped balls. The guy is always in the right spot. You can't teach that. It's an instinctive attribute that not many players have. I just hope it continues.
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| Quote: | | “"Doublethink" means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them” |
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khodder
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 23408
Location: The Land of the Long White Cloud...New Zealand.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| BeastM0de23RB wrote: | | Sharper's 7th INT came on a desperation Hail-Mary pass at the end of the game, so Saints fans can't say Byrd is just a beneficiary of some tipped balls. The guy is always in the right spot. You can't teach that. It's an instinctive attribute that not many players have. I just hope it continues. |
Or it is the fact that the Playcaller is calling good plays that put him in the right areas and all he is doing is carrying out the called play well, something you can teach via repetition and most expect out of a defensive player,
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Calias Campbell tracker: 3.5 sacks, 4 QB hit, 17 QB Pressures, 2.5 stuffs, 14 Defensive Stops, 4 BP's 2 FG BLK. |
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john_moser1
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 7435
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| vikingsrule wrote: | | Former Viking safety Orlando Thomas holds the rookie record for Ints in a season, I think he had 10 his rookie season. I wonder if Byrd can match it? |
I think Night-Train Lane had 14 his rookie season. Unless you're talking about safeties.
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BeastM0de23RB
Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 4810
Location: Upstate, NY
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| khodder wrote: | | BeastM0de23RB wrote: | | Sharper's 7th INT came on a desperation Hail-Mary pass at the end of the game, so Saints fans can't say Byrd is just a beneficiary of some tipped balls. The guy is always in the right spot. You can't teach that. It's an instinctive attribute that not many players have. I just hope it continues. |
Or it is the fact that the Playcaller is calling good plays that put him in the right areas and all he is doing is carrying out the called play well, something you can teach via repetition and most expect out of a defensive player, |
Why are you asking me? Decide for yourself after watching the replays. Form your own opinion from them. They're all readily available for you anytime. That's the beauty of the net. Having seen the plays in question here many times, my opinion is that while it may be the case for some of his picks, it's not the case for them all. Regardless of the plays called, you still have to execute, and he does. 17 INTs in college, and he's continuing the trend. With all that, combined with some good football bloodlines, and the fact that he's continuing the trend after missing most of camp, most of the pre-season, and in his rookie season at a new position to boot.
In summary, the Byrd is the word.
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| Quote: | | “"Doublethink" means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them” |
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Harper41
Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 474
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| BeastM0de23RB wrote: | | Sharper's 7th INT came on a desperation Hail-Mary pass at the end of the game, so Saints fans can't say Byrd is just a beneficiary of some tipped balls. The guy is always in the right spot. You can't teach that. It's an instinctive attribute that not many players have. I just hope it continues. |
Why can't we? Haha, I mean Sharpers killer instincts told him that thats exactly where Matt Ryan was going to be, theirs no way it was luck...right? You can't use an argument when its convenient but ignore it for other players. Sharper did get a lucky pick last week, no argument from me about that, Byrd has gotten lucky picks as well, its something you need to accept. He's getting INTs, you shouldn't care wether their lucky or not, their helping your team regardless. The reason people are saying he shouldn't win DROY is because he's been average in run support while players like Cushing have shown a good skillset in almost every aspect of their game.
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Dawgtx
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 1186
Location: Clear Lake/Houston
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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For me, (I know....doesn't mean much), the numbers will work themselves out. I have no doubt that Byrd, Cushing, Rey Rey, and maybe even others may have a right to be considered.
But I think you have to look at other things as well. How well do they do what they are supposed to do. Primary AND secondary responsibilities. If I just do one part of my job really, really well, and ignore other aspects, I'll probably be in trouble.
I haven't seen a lot of Byrd's games.....but, I have Cushings. Cushing brings an attitude that screams "DEFENSE". And, that attitude is contagious. I don't know if Cushing is pushing DeMeco, or vice versa....but I do know that with Cushing there, our entire defense is better, not just one players stat box.
I like Byrd, (wish we had him!), but so far, this is Cushings award to lose.....
IMHO
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Texans Nation --- The Revolution Has Begun.....
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rpwalters
Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 1744
Location: Montgomery, Texas
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Beast M0de wrote: | | khodder wrote: | | 91jmay wrote: | | khodder wrote: | Here is a thought. Bills fans giving credit to Byrd for being in the right place at the right time. How about you give credit to the playcaller for using him in the deep middle where he is best used, and then credit Byrd for doing his assignment, something every NFL player should do.
Right Place Right Time INT's are Luck. Especially if they are tipped or are thrown basically straight to the player.
Take his 1st pick on Sunday, heck of a play, does it say anything about his ability in coverage, not really. |
7 in 8 games isn't luck. I refuse to believe any NFL player is that lucky. |
Not all of them are pure luck. It is a combination of bad throws, being in the right place and athleticism.
Is he is the race for DPOY, no doubt whatsoever the raw numbers are impressive and that is what will garner votes for the award. As long as he keeps it up, people forgot about Chris Horton towards the end of last year when he really fell off the media map.
Does his raw numbers indicate much about his abilities on the field in coverage. No, maybe you can take a little out of it, but very little.
Also note where I said Right Place Right Time INT's are Luck, nothing about Byrd's INT's all being lucky, or all being right place right time. |
I think it is pretty safe to say that Byrd coverage skills are very good.
Since starting, there passing D has been lights out with Byrd back at FS. The Bills have not allowing a passing TD in 137 attempts, best in the NFL. Next closest is 43. There passing D and takeaway ratio with Jairus Byrd back at FS has been incredible. |
Their not giving up passing stats because Ryan Moats can run all over them. When you let a practice squad player run all over you, thats a problem that cant be ignored. Once they start to stop the run, teams will start to pass on them. Its the same thing in Arizona,except backwards. If that makes since.
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Kiltman
On Todd Weiner retiring,
| Butter273 wrote: | | 11 years? that's one old Weiner. |
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EliteTexan80
Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 7765
Location: Houston, TX
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Billy Spikes wrote: | Texans rookie linebacker Brian Cushing was named AFC Defensive Player of the Week for Week 8, becoming the first Texans rookie to win the award twice in one season.
Cushing (6-3, 265) led the Texans with 10 tackles and had one sack, one pass defensed and an interception in the Texans' 31-10 victory over the Buffalo Bills on Sunday. He has led or tied for the team lead in tackles six times in eight games. |
| Quote: | | The last rookie to win multiple weekly NFL awards was Vikings running back Adrian Peterson, who was named NFC Offensive Player of the Month twice in 2007. Peterson was a consensus choice for NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year that season. |
| Quote: | | The last defensive player to win two weekly awards was Ed Reed in 2008. Reed was a consensus All-Pro and finished third in voting for AP NFL Defensive Player of the Year. |
| Quote: | | Cushing is the only AFC rookie to win a weekly award in 2009. He joins New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady, New Orleans Saints quarterback Drew Brees and Minnesota Vikings quarterback Brett Favre as the only players in the NFL to win a weekly honor twice this season. |
Sources can be found here.
...just sayin. Byrd is good, but right now...the DROY lives deep in the heart of TEXANS NATION... 
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| Art_Vandalay wrote: | | Does the league take "margin of victory" into consideration when updating the standings? No. A win is a win. A loss is a loss. |
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BeastM0de23RB
Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 4810
Location: Upstate, NY
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Harper41 wrote: | | BeastM0de23RB wrote: | | Sharper's 7th INT came on a desperation Hail-Mary pass at the end of the game, so Saints fans can't say Byrd is just a beneficiary of some tipped balls. The guy is always in the right spot. You can't teach that. It's an instinctive attribute that not many players have. I just hope it continues. |
Why can't we? Haha, I mean Sharpers killer instincts told him that thats exactly where Matt Ryan was going to be, theirs no way it was luck...right? You can't use an argument when its convenient but ignore it for other players. Sharper did get a lucky pick last week, no argument from me about that, Byrd has gotten lucky picks as well, its something you need to accept. He's getting INTs, you shouldn't care wether their lucky or not, their helping your team regardless. The reason people are saying he shouldn't win DROY is because he's been average in run support while players like Cushing have shown a good skillset in almost every aspect of their game. |
No....you're just twisting the logic behind my argument. Sharper was there because the ball was hurled 50 feet in the air and it was up there for anyone to grab. You can't compare an INT on a hail mary to some of the INTs Byrd has come up with. I don't care how they come, I'm just making a case for why it's not just a fluke thing. If only our offense could capitalize on the turnovers. Hell.....if only they were an AVERAGE offense lol. And of course Cushing has been better in run support, because he's a linebacker. Once Donte comes back, and he's playing in the box, who cares if Byrd has been rough against the run. Do Raven fans care if Ed Reed makes tackles in the run game? Why would they if he was getting an INT a game? And in fairness, his all around game isn't as bad as some are making it seem. He's made some pretty big plays/tackles this year, and of course, there have been some mistakes. He's a rookie. He's human. We expect a few mistakes here and there. Someone even suggested that he's scared to hit people, which isn't the case. I'm wondering how much the people saying these things have actually seen him play outside of a highlight reel.
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| Quote: | | “"Doublethink" means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them” |
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